Electricity charges in a marina

[Momac]

Even if its mixed use and 60% or more is used for domestic purposes , which it is in my case  and I would say in all cases of boats in marinas , then 5%VAT applies

 

[nbfiresprite]

The marina has no choice, but to follow HMRC ruling as laydown in the letter as regards to the charging of VAT. 

[Momac]

1 minute ago, nbfiresprite said:

The marina has no choice, but to follow HMRC ruling as laydown in the letter as regards to the charging of VAT. 

I do not doubt what you are saying.

 

 

There must be others on this forum who know what rate of VAT they are being charged for electricity in a marina on a non residential basis ?

I have checked and there is no doubt ours is 5% VAT.

 

 

 

 

[Momac]

Other evidence

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by MartynG

[Momac]

It seems to me 5% VAT is correct for electricity used by a boat in a marina and using less than 33 units per day.

[Alan de Enfield]

42 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Or may not.

 

Its domestic use . 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-fuel-and-power-notice-70119#vat-liability-of-fuel-and-power

 

 

 

There is a specific definition of 'houseboat' and it is not 'any boat on a residential mooring'

 

DM & PJ Roberts (VTD 7516) appealed against a ruling that their mooring fees were standard rated as their vessel was not a houseboat:

Definition : A vessel “designed solely as a place of permanent habitation and has not been adapted as such.

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is a specific definition of 'houseboat' and it is not 'any boat on a residential mooring'

Yes .

But they are only examples listed .

The use of electricity on my boat is almost 100% for domestic purposes like heating and boiling a kettle so it is domestic as opposed to business use.

But

Even if it is not domestic use the VAT rate is 5% if no more than 33 units per day is used. 

I don't get anywhere near that and I would be amazed if anyone else with a leisure boat does .

Therefore 5% is correct.

By the way mooring fees are 20% VAT

I am referring to electricity

[manxmike]

My brother is an electrician, has been for years and is very successful and SAFE! However - he claims he does not understand 12 volt systems, they are a total mystery to him.

I have re-wired quite a few 12 volt systems, using a formula to determine the thickness of wire I should use. Sadly I still regard Amps, Volts and other esoteric measurements as black magic. The bikes I have re-wired have all worked perfectly, the 240 volt systems I have meddled with still work well.

Do I need to know what the difference between all the buzz words (see what I did there?) as I am unlikely to do any more electrical work on anything other than my motorhome (12 volt) or my Royal Enfield (12 volt)? I doubt it.

I'm sure my brother understands all that stuff - he probably needs to.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

The marina has no choice, but to follow HMRC ruling as laydown in the letter as regards to the charging of VAT. 

 

Being picky I suspect they DO have a choice. 

 

Instead of following the ruling in the letter from HMRC, I'd say they have the option to appeal the ruling by taking their case to the VAT Tribunal (or whatever it is called these days).

 

The company accountant will know how to do this. Said accountant may have also advised they will lose, which might explain why they don't appeal what prima facie appears to be an incorrect ruling.

 

Never take tax advice from a boiler technician. 

 

 

[Lady M]

This exchange highlights one of my problems with the rules about domestic electricity.  Alan's non-residential caravans are allowed to use 5% VAT rated electricity for domestic purposes but non-residential boats appear to be excluded by use of the term houseboat.  Unless that word, in this context, is meant to mean electricity used on boats for domestic purposes.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Lady C said:

This exchange highlights one of my problems with the rules about domestic electricity.  Alan's non-residential caravans are allowed to use 5% VAT rated electricity for domestic purposes but non-residential boats appear to be excluded by use of the term houseboat.  Unless that word, in this context, is meant to mean electricity used on boats for domestic purposes.

The list is examples 

The list does not include 'boats' 

Nor are boats  excluded

 

But in any case the not exceeding 33 units per day appears to add considerable weight to the case for 5% vat. 

 

 

 

[Momac]

I am sure most of you if not all claim duty rebate on diesel for domestic use on their boats 

It is established  therefore that energy is used on boats for domestic purposes. HMRC clearly agree with this.

Therefore HMRC should agree any other source of energy may at least in part  be classified as domestic use on a boat.

[Lady M]

Well, here is the HMRC definition of residential boats for the diesel duty rebate.  It does not include anyone living on a leisure mooring or continuous cruisers.

 

5.7 If you’re a residential boat owner and only move your boat short distances occasionally

We recognise that there are boat owners whose primary, or only residence is their boat.

Some of these will be at fixed moorings or move just a very short distance along the tow path from permanent moorings. If you live aboard your craft permanently and hold certain documentation, such as a Houseboat Licence, Residential Mooring Licence, Council Tax bill in respect of the mooring, or other documentation, such as invoices or bills which provide proof of permanent residency, you may purchase all your fuel at the rebated rate (as if you owned a commercial vessel). You are not required to make a declaration.

However, it will be your responsibility to make sure that you hold the requisite documentation should we wish to check this at a future date.

5.8 If you’re a continuous cruiser

If you’re a ‘continuous cruiser’ you may not claim all of your fuel for non-propulsion purposes under the arrangements for residential boat owners. Even if you reside permanently on your craft, you must declare your actual intended usage for propulsion.