Wooden Cruiser

[phsycicdreamer]

I have a bit of boat building experience and after looking at the prices of sailaway shells im thinking hmmm i could build a complete boat myself fo under 20g.

 

I would however be using timber frame with plywood then epoxy with fiber glass sheathing with a removeable water ballast.

 

The main thing for me at the moment is size.

 

Im thinking of havint the boat around 30 foot in length so if need be it could be trailered with a 4 wheel drive to other parts of the network.

 

However my main thought is widebeams and practicality.

 

How practical is having a widebeam?

 

I have one site that has plans but does anyone know of other websites selling canal boat plans?

 

Thanks for your time.

[bottle]

You will not be able to tow a wide beam on the road if it is over approx 3mts wide and/or more than 7mts long unless you get a police escourt.

Edited June 14, 2005 by bottle

[phsycicdreamer]

You will not be able to tow a wide beam on the road if it is over approx 3mts wide and/or more than 7mts long unless you get a police escourt.

23097[/snapback]

 

Now theres problem number 1 for a start.

Im trying to gather as many pro's and con's as i can.

 

IM even thinking what is the big deal with having a trailerableboat anyway?

Where would you leave the car and trailer and what would be the cost of that?

 

Is there a company that could move a larger boat for waterway users?

 

I think the most you can tow width wise is about 8 foot isnt it?

 

After spending years towing a caravan around i know its a rain pain pulling a trailer to.

 

My thoughts are it would be nice to go to Amsterdam and France but how on earth do you get your boat across the channel?

 

Cheers.

[DHutch]

Geoffrey Newton, a friend of my grandad built he boat photogaphed below

- She 25' 7" long, with a 5' 6" beam.

- The hull is a vennered Cedar plank constution, with epoxy glass sheath,

 

She gets trailed all accross the contry to various rallys on her trailer, they go on canals/rivers/lake all across the contry. windermere, river trent, the falkirk wheel, most of the canal network, etc

 

 

Daniel

Edited June 14, 2005 by dhutch

[ChrisPy]

I used to design all sorts of boats using novel philosophies.

 

I used to be a dreamer too. I dreamed of a boat for all seasons, for all waters, and for all purposes. Now I follow convention - boring but realistic.

 

The fact is that the designs (and materials) of the boats you see in common use have proved to be the best for the intended purpose, e.g. steel specialist canal boats, GRP trailer boats that can be used most places but are not ideal anywhere. Those designs evolved through the experience of hundreds of builders and thousands of users.

 

Of course there are trailer canal boats built from aluminium and GRP. If I was serious I would use one of those designs as a starting point.

[phsycicdreamer]

I used to design all sorts of boats using novel philosophies.

 

I used to be a dreamer too.  I dreamed of a boat for all seasons, for all waters, and for all purposes.  Now I follow convention - boring but realistic.

 

The fact is that the designs (and materials) of the boats you see in common use have proved to be the best for the intended purpose,  e.g. steel specialist canal boats, GRP trailer boats that can be used most places but are not ideal anywhere. Those designs evolved through the experience of hundreds of builders and thousands of users.

 

Of course there are trailer canal boats built from aluminium and GRP.  If I was serious I would use one of those designs as a starting point.

23109[/snapback]

 

Hi Chris, IM far from a dreamer IM a doer with intention and my ideas come from many such boats that are being used.

 

You are correct in what you say in using an existing idea that already exists the problem is such companies are not forth comming with the plans.

 

My issue is what way to go,wide or narrow and possibly trailerable.

 

Thanks.

[John Orentas]

Hi Phisy.

 

It is good to dream, we have all done it. The reality is however that steel is the only sensible option for a canal boat, narrowboats have evolved to where they are now for very good reasons, steel is cheap, strong, resistant to penetration and relatively easy to use, all you have to do is prevent it from going too rusty.

 

If you can't afford a new one think about second hand, there are a lot of oldish but sound boats available. Unless you are already a good fabricator with design experience I would not advise tackling the job of building one in any material, ask anyone who has done it, they will tell you that you will have to build 4 before you have a boat you are satisfied with.

 

Re-inventing the wheel is never a good option.

[phsycicdreamer]

Hi Phisy.

 

It is good to dream, we have all done it.  The reality is however that steel is the only sensible option for a canal boat, narrowboats have evolved to where they are now for very good reasons, steel is cheap, strong, resistant to penetration and relatively easy to use, all you have to do is prevent it from going too rusty.

 

If you can't afford a new one think about second hand, there are a lot of oldish but sound boats available.  Unless you are already a good fabricator with design experience I would not advise tackling the job of building one in any material, ask anyone who has done it, they will tell you that you will have to build 4 before you have a boat you are satisfied with.

 

Re-inventing the wheel is never a good option.

23140[/snapback]

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Ive been having a good scan around online and think i could afford a shell that i would need to fit out myself.

I must admit i was a bit consearned about impacts in a wooden boat.

Ive just seen an aliminium workboat http://www.hasekamp.nl/ no quiet big enough but the asking price has got me thinking not (dreaming)

I want a square shape barge if i go for a narrow boat.

But still no one has given their views on wide beam or narrow beam.

 

Thanks for you views folks.

[gaggle]

But still no one has given their views on wide beam or narrow beam.

 

Thanks for you views folks.

23171[/snapback]

that depends on where you are i would think dreamer "in case i spell phscho not physic" i chose a narrowboat even though my canal leeds&liverpool is built for wide beam barges,i asked for a boat that will fit on every canal and lock on the system or the majority at least.if you want do the system or stay on a local canal seems to be what you need to decide.gaggle

[John Orentas]

Hi Phisy.

 

As Gaggle say it largely depends on your location. The wide or Barge canals are almost entirely in the North of England, comprising of the rivers and the Liverpool, Calder and Hebble, Huddersfield broad, Rochdale, Lancaster and others that have slipped my mind.

 

With a 'wide' boat you will obviously be limited to these waterways and the great majority of the system will be closed to you. They will be more expensive to buy or manufacture and cost more to run. On top of that you will miss out on the vestigial culture of the working boats which some people think of as being a bit silly but it has meaning non-the-less.

 

I would say get a narrowboat and allow yourself access to the full system for a few years.

[phsycicdreamer]

Hi Phisy.

 

As Gaggle say it largely depends on your location.  The wide or Barge canals are almost entirely in the North of England, comprising of the rivers and the Liverpool, Calder and Hebble, Huddersfield broad, Rochdale, Lancaster and others that have slipped my mind.

 

With a 'wide' boat you will obviously be limited to these waterways and the great majority of the system will be closed to you.  They will be more expensive to buy or manufacture and cost more to run. On top of that you will miss out on the vestigial culture of the working boats which some people think of as being a bit silly but it has meaning non-the-less.

 

I would say get a narrowboat and allow yourself access to the full system for a few years.

23184[/snapback]

 

Im actually in Ashton under lyne and rather like Stalybridge and the surrounds so i guess a widebeam would be out of the question plus i would love to travel up and down for a bit before laying to rest somewhere nice.

 

Ive just been looking at some shellsfrom liverpool boats which are around 11 grand for a 40 footer.

Im very keen but i think i will by a fit out book someone else recommended and take things from there.

 

I like the idea of a barge shape with straight up sides with a squarer look if you know what i mean.

 

Thanks gents for all the info back to the drawing board.

But boy will it be worth in the end.

Edited June 15, 2005 by phsycicdreamer

[ChrisPy]

if you want the square look Gary at Ledgard Bridge will help you out. He's probably avoiding selling himself too hard by posting here.

 

narrow or wide?

 

I lived in an 8ft wide caravan for years as a kid, and have lived in 8ft wide containerised accommodation all over the world. Not nice. To have only 6ft of usable space would be hell for me. 10ft widebeam (9ft usable space) is just about OK.

[John Orentas]

Phisy.

 

There is another option for boat styles. A narrow beam Dutch Barge but the cost will be much greater.

Bear in mind also you have a boat builder / supplier just up the road from you Lees Narrowboats at Hyde. www.leesnarrowboats.co.uk 0161 367 205.

 

Worth a look !

[phsycicdreamer]

Thanks for the reply John.

 

We plan to go and take a look this Saturday.

 

It seems strange that a Narrow boat should cost more just because the cabin goes straight up as opposed to an angle.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Thanks for your time.

[bottle]

Yes it makes the roof bigger

[DHutch]

It seems strange that a Narrow boat should cost more just because the cabin goes straight up as opposed to an angle.

I think part of its becuase there less common and more special!

- Also, the hull sides often up up higher, and theres the wheelhouse.

 

 

 

Daniel

[phsycicdreamer]

Oh i see of course the roof will be larger.

 

I do think however the charges are not really warrented as the extra cost wouldnt really be that much more in steel?

 

From those pictures posted i must confess they do look lovely although im not sure i would want a wheel house initially.

 

Another thought while discussing things here is the cabin.

 

Is it possible to buy the hull and then contruct me own cabin from ply?

 

I dare say IM missing something again but if I do not ask those who know better then i will never know.

 

Thanks for your time.

[Guest]

Some narrowboats were built in the manner that you describe (plywood cabins), but I think I am right in saying that steel cabins last longer generally. There are a couple around our end where the cabins have been sheathed with glass fibre presumably because the cabins were "tired," whilst the hulls (steel) appear to be good. I have never owned such a boat and therefore others will be better qualified than me to comment.

[stuart]

Wooden cabins are generally a lot cheaper on the second hand market. Perhaps because either no one wants them or they are cheap to build?

[ChrisPy]

Wooden cabins are generally a lot cheaper on the second hand market.  Perhaps because either no one wants them or they are cheap to build?

23482[/snapback]

I can't believe they are cheap to build if they are done to a decent standard.

 

I have experience of designing and building steel boats and plywood boats as an amateur, and for a while as a living. I designed and built a 36ft conventional narrowboat shell 20 years ago.

 

I don't have the experience of a long-term professional shell builder, but I firmly believe there is one commonality in this business: the cheapest and best way to get a good looking and sound boat is to buy a shell from a very experienced shell builder, selected from his standard range. In my view they are very good value for money. All your subsequent investment in fitting out is a waste of money if the shell is not sound.

 

If you can't afford to buy a good shell you probably can't afford to think 'new'. Then buy a cheapie second hand boat and enjoy refurbishing it.

 

If you want something different that suits your whims, then by all means design something different and use plywood if you must. But the maintenance will become progressively more difficult as the boat gets knocked about, and it will always have a very low resale value.

[DHutch]

I can't believe they are cheap to build if they are done to a decent standard.

True.

- That roof that i made for emilyanne (5'*6' - ply with grp skin) cost a lot to make, just in materials.

- The epoxy along (6kg) was the best part of £85, and there not much left! then if your roofs over 4' you have to fork out for large size ply, which is a fair bit more. etc etc.

 

 

Daniel

[phsycicdreamer]

Some great advice guys thank you.

 

The bottom line is money for me.

 

One thinks that building your own boat from ply and epoxy will save a lot if all you want is to get on the water rather than having an investment return if the life dose not appeal or life just changes and you need to move on and sell the boat.

 

Buying a shell from a builder is obviously going to cost more thousands more but you get the shell properly made fom someone who knows what they are doing.

 

This brings me to my next thought on this narrow boat lark.

 

Who are reputable shell builders?

 

I ask because they are substantial differences in price for what apears to be the same specification on paper.

 

I do not wish for people to upset or put certain builders down by recommending one over another but IM sure the Industry as far as boat building goes is fully away of who's making quality rather than tossing out volume.

 

For example Liverpool Boats are offering a sailaway for around 22 grand where as another company are charging over 5grand more for what appears to be the same spec boat.

 

What should i be getting for 5 grand extra that should make me want to spend an extra 5 grand for what appears to be the same boat?

 

Thanks for your time.

[Richard Bustens]

QUALITY

[DHutch]

One of the things you get with higher priced boats is flexability and uniquness.

 

Liverpool Boats make good boats, to a good standerd. (as far as i've heard via CWF)

- But there never going to be one-offs, because thats not what they do.

- They keep the cost down my keeping the design simple, and the same as the one before.

 

 

Daniel

[phsycicdreamer]

One of the things you get with higher priced boats is flexability and uniquness.

 

Liverpool Boats make good boats, to a good standerd. (as far as i've heard via CWF)

- But there never going to be one-offs, because thats not what they do.

- They keep the cost down my keeping the design simple, and the same as the one before.

Daniel

23771[/snapback]

 

IM not interested in a one off shell i just want a quality shell.

 

Im interested how a boat made from the same steel welded by a qualified welder can cost more by 5 grand and be worth buying instead of the cheaper boat?

 

What is it that could make such a difference other than it being a one off?

 

Thanks.