Illegal Earth Connections

[Big COL]

http://www.dilog.co.uk/home/index.php?opti...3&Itemid=76

 

 

Google is a wonderful thing.

 

Ah Bottle

 

Make sure that you are part P approved before you use one, or G-d will get you

[Guest]

There's no risk with my electrics, guaranteed, never has been, never will be.

I take it you leave them all isolated then?

[Guest TerryL]

I note the 17th edition regulations banded about here all the time, they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with boats. Follows a quote from the IET website----

 

The IET plays a key role in the electrical installation industry in terms of standards and safety and is known for its independent and trusted voice in this sector. It manages the national committee JPEL/64 which prepares and updates the regulations for the safety of electrical installations in buildings, and publishes the standard BS 7671:2008 - the IEE Wiring Regulations.

 

BUILDINGS is the key to their scope.

 

 

Why is there no reference by "the Experts" to the BMEA Code of Practice for Electrical and Electronic Installations in Small Craft ?

Could it be the discussions / battles would end?

 

Its all there in black and white ( never a mention of a shore based isolation transformer !!) This is the boating industry code of practice, not interpretations of buildings regulations tweaked to suit personal opinions.

 

He says, quickly retreating to bunker and donning flak jacket http://www.canalworld.net/forums/style_ima...icons/icon5.gif

 

The IET regulations as the National Standard do apply to marinas supplies section 7. and they have restrictions on the type of system that can be connected same as caravans and other special locations plus there are some other restrictions as consumers by the supply regulations. So it is not just buildings which you misquote, plus they are considered the industry standard from which guidance and other regulations are drawn. Formerly the IEE they have been involved with Lloyds and ships electrical regulations since 1890.

 

The Institution of Engineering and Technology is one of the world’s leading professional societies for the engineering and technology community. The IET has more than 150,000 members in 127 countries and offices in Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. The IET provides a global knowledge network to facilitate the exchange of ideas and promote the positive role of science, engineering and technology in the world.

 

The British Marine Electronic Association is a Limited Company funded by it's trade customers to promote the very products that are wired badly, it is headed by the owner of Energy Solutions whom I know from way back but I'm not aware of him being an electrical engineer only a salesman, apart from self interest and being self appointed they have as much clout or legal standing as anyone else who wanted to set themselves up with a code.

Edited October 16, 2008 by TerryL

[chris w]

That electrician bloke that you have all decided is a homicidal moron was quite correct with his assertion that an RCD compares the current passing through the live and neutral, it will trip when those two conductors become out of balance.. 'Without regard to earth'.

 

This is my one and only contribution to this topic.

 

I somehow missed this post earlier. What you say is b*ll*cks JO. If there is no earth, there can be no imbalance because there is nowhere for an "imbalance" current to flow.

 

EG: If the live wire touched an unearthed hull, the hull would simply become live. You wouldn't feel anything because you would be "floating" (excuse the pun) at 240vac. Just like a bird sitting on a pylon wire. However, if you stepped ashore, the moment one foot touched earth, BANG and "Goodnight Vienna"

 

However, up to the point of stepping ashore, no current would flow through the hull because there is no path to earth (ignoring a "possible" path through the water). Therefore there is no imbalance yet between live and neutral and the RCD would NOT trip.

 

If the hull is earthed, then the moment the live wire touches it, a current will flow through the hull back to the earth on shore and thence to the neutral on shore (where earth and neutral are bonded at the substation). So some of the current went via earth instead of flowing through the RCD's neutral wire. NOW there is an imbalance and the RCD will trip.

 

Chris

[John Orentas]

Why do I keep getting drawn into these silly topics: I refer you to your chum's link from yesterday.. And why do you still think that the loudest and crudest voice should always prevail.

 

Don't bother me again.

Edited October 17, 2008 by John Orentas

[chris w]

Why do I keep getting drawn into these silly topics:

 

I was wondering that too based on the reaction of many previous posters.

 

I refer you to your chum's link from yesterday.. And why do you still think that the loudest and crudest voice should always prevail.

I think that's a question for him.

 

Don't bother me again..... Oaf.

 

Why are you now signing yourself "Olaf" ?

[alan_fincher]

Gentlemen,

 

I think you all need to get together and sort out your differences.

 

Something along these lines, possibly......

 

[dave_2A_]

So how SHOULD 240V be wired into a NB? Assume that all that's required is a couple of 240V sockets at either end, fed from an external hookup - either from marina mains or genny. Might be more worthwhile than the bickering.