Age of Colecraft 2

[John Barnet]

Hello

 

Some of you may rememeber last week I posted a requested for anyone who could help find the age of a Colecraft hull.

 

One suggestion was that the date would be stamped on the weedhatch. I spoke to Gary Cole (as others of you suggested contacting) he confirmed this practice has only been happening over the last fifteen years, so I was not supprised to find there was no stamp on this particular boat. He told me the date is stamped in reverse.

 

Last night I sent him some pics, he will come back to me. He was not too optomistic as I have not got any details of the original owner.

I will, as some of you asked, let you know what he comes up with.

 

I went back to view the boat last Thursday. We took it on a four hour jaunt in the pooring rain and though the engine ran really well, not a trace of smoke, it has a very worrying rust patch on the block. It looks as though there has been some repair to the block at some point.

 

Its a BMC (i think 1500). Does anyone know of a mechanic I might be able to persuade to do a pre buy suryey on it?

 

I would post some pics but have not worked out how to do it yet! (not the sharpest pencil in the I.T. box)

 

 

 

Thanks

[magnetman]

Hello

 

Some of you may rememeber last week I posted a requested for anyone who could help find the age of a Colecraft hull.

 

One suggestion was that the date would be stamped on the weedhatch. I spoke to Gary Cole (as others of you suggested contacting) he confirmed this practice has only been happening over the last fifteen years, so I was not supprised to find there was no stamp on this particular boat. He told me the date is stamped in reverse.

 

Last night I sent him some pics, he will come back to me. He was not too optomistic as I have not got any details of the original owner.

I will, as some of you asked, let you know what he comes up with.

 

I went back to view the boat last Thursday. We took it on a four hour jaunt in the pooring rain and though the engine ran really well, not a trace of smoke, it has a very worrying rust patch on the block. It looks as though there has been some repair to the block at some point.

 

Its a BMC (i think 1500). Does anyone know of a mechanic I might be able to persuade to do a pre buy suryey on it?

 

I would post some pics but have not worked out how to do it yet! (not the sharpest pencil in the I.T. box)

 

 

Thanks

 

there's a handy guide to posting photos on the forum here:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...t=0&start=0

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Running it for 4 hours is a pretty good test. I had a coreplug rust through on my 1500, replaced it and I have heard of small holes in BMC blocks having been satisfactorily repaired using 'plastic metal' compounds.

 

Any oil leaks? did it start easily?.

 

Albi

[John Barnet]

Hi,

 

Running it for 4 hours is a pretty good test. I had a coreplug rust through on my 1500, replaced it and I have heard of small holes in BMC blocks having been satisfactorily repaired using 'plastic metal' compounds.

 

Any oil leaks? did it start easily?.

 

Albi

 

Hello Albi

 

Couldn't see any oil leaks, on the dip stick it was pure oil. Some oil in the bilge but seen worse. Wouldn't say its the cleanest engine but not exsessively dirty.

Started easily twice. First time after heat plugs being held for 30 seconds. No obvious smoke on starting.

in four hours the temp gauge went to 80 psb and held steady

 

i am trying to attach an image with some help form Magnetman but so far no go

[alan_fincher]

Any oil leaks? did it start easily?.

If there were no oil leaks, it wouldn't sound very BMC-like.

 

And you also say "not a hint of smoke....."

 

Are you sure it's a BMC ?

[John Barnet]

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/J...et/P8221287.jpg

 

above is a link to a pic of the offending article!

 

you can see its a bit of a patch!

[Malarky]

Could be a hairline crack in the block, caused by cold water put in a hot engine, or ice from no antifreeze, if everything has settled back to the original position your ok. But it will have a worry factor worth keeping the boat cheeper to buy! Did you check the oil?

[LEO]

Hi,

 

One more question, looks a though this could be raw water cooled - is this the case?

 

Albi

[alan_fincher]

Hi,

 

One more question, looks a though this could be raw water cooled - is this the case?

 

Albi

Blimey!

 

I'm genuinely impressed.

 

How can you reach that conclusion, seing so little ?

 

Alan

[alan_fincher]

Also,

 

You can tell if it's the 1500 or the 1800 engine as the fuel injection pump is in a different place......

 

(Photos from Tony Brookes' former courses at Reading College)

 

BMC 1500

 

 

BMC 1800

 

 

Also, if you can see the relevant part of the block, the 1800 has easy to read identification cast in, (I don't knpw about the 1500 ?).

 

[Malarky]

Can't seem to match the rusty bit to those pics. is it a 4108 series, not BMC?

[John Barnet]

Can't seem to match the rusty bit to those pics. is it a 4108 series, not BMC?

 

Malarky

 

There is another image on

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/J...et/P8211236.jpg

 

To answer Albi, no it is not raw water, it has a skin tank.

 

The oil was pure oil on the stick, no sign of water migration in the sump or oil in the water.

 

The water was rusty in the header tank, which in its self was a bit oif a Heath Robinson affair made from a gallon plastic container.

 

In a 4 hour period of running the water temp stayed at 80 degress.

Still haven't figured out how to post the pics on the replies!

[alan_fincher]

Well I'm no expert, but I'm sure that's not a BMC B Series engine, either the regular 1500 or the 1800.

 

It will need someone with more knowledge of narrow boat engines than I have to say exactly what it actually is though.....

 

Alan

 

EDIT:

 

Well trying to find anything that looks like it......

 

I don't think it's got the Perkins look.

 

I reckon it is a BMC, but not the B Series engine normally found in narrowboats, in a 1500cc or 1800cc guise.

 

My strong suspicion is that it is both older and larger, possibly something more like 2500cc ??

 

I think you need to be pretty certain, as once you get older than the B series engines, I have been told parts can be very hard to come by.

 

I'm no expert, but the injector pipes don't look like they were for this engine - they look horribly like ones from somewhere else, bent until they fit.

 

Anyway, I'm sure somebody like Tony Brooks could either identify exactly what it is immediately, or at least tell you where to find out.

 

My money is firmly on a BMC engine older than the usual ones, (unfortunately...). I think that could mean 1960s ???

 

Alan

Edited August 24, 2008 by alan_fincher

[magnetman]

Malarky

 

There is another image on

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr305/J...et/P8211236.jpg

 

To answer Albi, no it is not raw water, it has a skin tank.

 

The oil was pure oil on the stick, no sign of water migration in the sump or oil in the water.

 

The water was rusty in the header tank, which in its self was a bit oif a Heath Robinson affair made from a gallon plastic container.

 

In a 4 hour period of running the water temp stayed at 80 degress.

Still haven't figured out how to post the pics on the replies!

 

when you look at your photobucket album there are several boxes of text under each image. the bottom one says 'IMG code'. click on this box once and the word 'copied' flashes up in a yellow box for half a second. Then go to a reply on this forum and paste the IMG code in, like this:

 

 

Edited August 24, 2008 by magnetman

[Malarky]

With more to see- not perkins, injectors would be on the other side. Nanni?

[LEO]

Blimey!

 

I'm genuinely impressed.

 

How can you reach that conclusion, seing so little ?

 

Alan

 

Alan

 

Experience Dear Boy!, no seriously this looked like a chronic rust stain caused by leaking water, if it contained water and or anti-freeze any other additive I would have expected a different style and colour of staining.

 

The type/colour of staining shown in the picture was prevalent in domestic cold water tanks before the advent of polypropelene, I learnt quickly never to touch the rust as if you did the tank pin-pricked and leaked and then house owners quickly asked for a new or a large contribution to a new tank and if left for the cost re-plasterering and redecorating ceilings.

 

Albi

[alan_fincher]

Thinking about this some more, (when I should have been asleep!), I wonder if it's the BMC engine, (don't know it's type), used in the classic 'FX4' London taxi ?

 

That would, I believe, make it a minimum of a 2.2 litre rather than a 1.5 litre engine.

 

These don't seem to end up in narrowboats much, to the extent I realise I don't actually know what one looks like.

 

Alan

[alan_fincher]

I can't believe how difficult it is to locate pictures of BMC (or Austin) diesel engines on the web.

 

I'm astounded I couldn't easily find clear pictures of London taxi cab engines, but I couldn't, (other than examples of Chevrolet V8 engines shoe-horned in )

 

The one very poor picture I found of a 2.2 engine didn't look very similar.

 

However a few pictures of fairly derelict BMC 2.5 litre engines look a lot like the one in this post. (Example follows)

 

 

My best guess is it's a BMC 2.5, rather than a 1.5.

 

Where are the real experts when you need them, (before I dig an even deeper hole!).

[LEO]

Hi,

 

There is (looking at the picture) an engine number plate below one of the injectors, perhaps this could be taken and someone like AMC could help with details, or look for the engine size moulded into the block above the lift pump.

 

If it is 2.2 or 2.5 engine it will be much too big for canal use and will suffer badly unless it has a miniscule propellor.

 

ATB

 

ALBI

[John Barnet]

I can't believe how difficult it is to locate pictures of BMC (or Austin) diesel engines on the web.

 

I'm astounded I couldn't easily find clear pictures of London taxi cab engines, but I couldn't, (other than examples of Chevrolet V8 engines shoe-horned in )

 

The one very poor picture I found of a 2.2 engine didn't look very similar.

 

However a few pictures of fairly derelict BMC 2.5 litre engines look a lot like the one in this post. (Example follows)

 

 

My best guess is it's a BMC 2.5, rather than a 1.5.

 

Where are the real experts when you need them, (before I dig an even deeper hole!).

 

Alan

 

I think you could be right, these do look simular and the cc makes sense as its a 62ft boat I suppose.

All looking more than a bit of a worry!

 

John

[alan_fincher]

All looking more than a bit of a worry!

Well I could be wrong!

 

We really could do with an expert noticing this thread.

 

I know roughly when 1.5 and 1.8s were made, but know nothing of the bigger engines, unfortunately.

 

I suspect, (as Albi suggests), that the reason the 2.2 & 2.5 engines don't turn up too much in narrowboats is that they are too big for the job, (even in a 62 foot boat).

 

What I have is no idea when units like I posted a picture of were made, and how available spares are.

 

Did the seller of this boat not say what engine size, or anything else about it ?

 

Alan

[John Barnet]

Hi,

 

There is (looking at the picture) an engine number plate below one of the injectors, perhaps this could be taken and someone like AMC could help with details, or look for the engine size moulded into the block above the lift pump.

 

If it is 2.2 or 2.5 engine it will be much too big for canal use and will suffer badly unless it has a miniscule propellor.

 

ATB

 

ALBI

 

I've now have the number 25V/598B-D2151, Who are AMC?

[alan_fincher]

I believe, (but could be wrong), that the

 

25V

 

suffix, means you are looking a t a 2.5 litre engine, with normal "vertical" cylinders.

 

The good news is I think that format engine number may mean a post 1970 engine.

 

A bit more "Googling" might well find out a lot more.

 

AMC / Thorneycroft website here.....

 

http://www.thornycroftengines.co.uk/index.shtml

[John Barnet]

I believe, (but could be wrong), that the

 

25V

 

suffix, means you are looking a t a 2.5 litre engine, with normal "vertical" cylinders.

 

The good news is I think that format engine number may mean a post 1970 engine.

 

A bit more "Googling" might well find out a lot more.

 

AMC / Thorneycroft website here.....

 

http://www.thornycroftengines.co.uk/index.shtml

 

Thank you Alan

[LEO]

Hi,

 

It does sound like a 2.5 BMC a big engine for a narrowboat, even a 70 footer, you will have problems, as an engine this size does not work hard enough and this will damage the unit.

 

A unit this size will not be very economical to run.

 

Many people 'over engine' new boats, a pal who used to work for Barrus could never believe the size of engine people specified in their narrowboats and got fed up with complaints over poor running etc.

 

I would proceed with caution in this instance and arrange to tow a loaded buttty round to make the engine work hard (which is what diesels are designed to do).

 

Best of luck.

 

Albi