3 phase mains (415v)

[larkshall]

HI all<

 

Is it possible to add a 3 phase generator to an NB?,

 

As I@M gonna move aboard a boat, I was thinking I have to get rid of a number of tools including a hydrovane 3 phase air compressor, and lots of air powered tools in favour of electrical equivalents.

 

Having looked at the cost of this (airtools are actually cheaper and more hard wearing), I thought ok ditch the compressor and go for a single phase compressor. Then I saw the price of those, (min spec 34 cfm fad)....argggggggggggggh.

 

Well I will have to buy a generator anyway for the boat, so is it possible to buy a generator 3 phase which will also allow 230v for 'boat electrics'........

 

Why so much air?, hvlp spraying for one. plus air tools are safer by far and away than electric. Plus might be able to provide a floating workshop facility on canals for people needing heavy duty work away from moorings marinas etc. (cut up the odd stolen NB ).

[RobinJ]

Is it possible to add a 3 phase generator to an NB?,

Well I will have to buy a generator anyway for the boat, so is it possible to buy a generator 3 phase which will also allow 230v for 'boat electrics'........

Why so much air?, hvlp spraying for one. plus air tools are safer by far and away than electric. Plus might be able to provide a floating workshop facility on canals for people needing heavy duty work away from moorings marinas etc. (cut up the odd stolen NB ).

Like to see what the BSC examiners say about this!

3 phase gennys are available and often include single phase sockets too.

If its all bolted down inside the boat and properly connected I cannot see any reason why not?

Operating air lines outside the boat might raise helath and safety issues?

I also do not think it is a good idea to consider using 3 phase equipment in a portable fashion - hence the reason why most building sites are restricted to 110V!

[Dylan]

The thought of three phase 415V equipment on water makes me shudder. I have reservations about 240V.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Dylan

[larkshall]

Er in the boat, not on water...

[Yoda]

There is no problem using a 3 phase generator on a boat, the normal engine driven generator has 3 phases!

 

Just ensure that it is not running when you sink.

[larkshall]

There is no problem using a 3 phase generator on a boat, the normal engine driven generator has 3 phases!

 

Just ensure that it is not running when you sink.

 

Yoda, I'll go down with the boat, or use compressed air to keep afloat !

[Dylan]

There is no problem using a 3 phase generator on a boat, the normal engine driven generator has 3 phases!

 

Just ensure that it is not running when you sink.

The phases are not a problem 1, 3, 6 whatever. It is the 415 volts that worry me. If you go ahead with this, please ensure that you take professional advice, and use correct protecive devices, as well as appropriate armoured cable etc. Can't see Boat Safety liking it personally. Of course larger vessels use 415Vthree phase, but I understand that there are very special requirements regarding bonding, water ingress etc. Personally I would look for an engine powered compressor before I would install 415V on my boat. Can you hook a compressor to the boat engine, like yachts do for fridge compressors?

[larkshall]

now thats a thought engine driven compressor

[Dylan]

now thats a thought engine driven compressor

Its there (the engine)and paid for. Why buy a genny, then a compressor? All those power losses and the possible dangers of 415V. I would think a comressor with a clutch, driven from the engine and a remote receiver might be the answer. Takes up less room as well I would imagine. Just a thought.

[Tusses]

I've been looking at table saws for my workshop in the garden. I only have single phase to the house. A lot of the good old equipment is 3 pahse and I have noticed the 240v to 3 phase inverters being suggested as the cure for 3 phaselessness

 

Do these inverters work well ? they dont seem very expensive

[Greybeard]

I've been looking at table saws for my workshop in the garden. I only have single phase to the house. A lot of the good old equipment is 3 pahse and I have noticed the 240v to 3 phase inverters being suggested as the cure for 3 phaselessness

 

Do these inverters work well ? they dont seem very expensive

 

Hi

 

Try these as an alternative to the 3phase inverters which seem to have very limited life from the ones we've tried.

 

http://www.isomatic.co.uk/3phConverter.htm

 

I've not used these but I have used the pack made by xcalibre.

 

Theirs had 2 x 13amp plugs on which gave you a 3phase supply. I used to run drilling equipment from it but it is water cooled.

 

http://www.xcalibre-equipment.co.uk/ Their tech guy is Keith Skinner and ia a real anorak, in a good way, and should be able to help.

 

Please all of the tech guys out there don't shoot me down in flames if this isn't correct/feasible.

 

I'm an end user and not a producer!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are other companies out there and if you really get stuck let me know and I'll give you the number of a guy who could design something for you BUT it won't be cheap!!!!!!!

[hughc]

I've run a lathe and drill press for thirty years from a 2 1/2 h.p three phase inverter. The same inverter. No problems Regards, HughC.

[larkshall]

I've contacted isomati, their device is rather like an IBM3505 motor generator, though on a more reasonable scale. THe one fly in the ointment the 18a single phase 'start requirement. HOwever they have a way round that (larger startrun capacitor).

 

THis is one option the other is persue high volume main engine driven compressor, probably vane type, as gives even flow of air without sudden cut/in/out scenario with piston type compressor. I know hydrovane sell such a unit so will be onto them. I would prefer 2nd optiion in truth, one of the reason for using air driven tools is safety (so what if you drop one in canal, gets wet and muddy, retrieve blow air thru and hydraulic oil and off u go again). I can hardly see the BSS police getting up-tight about air hose.... only trips and slips issues.

[Greybeard]

I've contacted isomati, their device is rather like an IBM3505 motor generator, though on a more reasonable scale. THe one fly in the ointment the 18a single phase 'start requirement. HOwever they have a way round that (larger startrun capacitor).

 

THis is one option the other is persue high volume main engine driven compressor, probably vane type, as gives even flow of air without sudden cut/in/out scenario with piston type compressor. I know hydrovane sell such a unit so will be onto them. I would prefer 2nd optiion in truth, one of the reason for using air driven tools is safety (so what if you drop one in canal, gets wet and muddy, retrieve blow air thru and hydraulic oil and off u go again). I can hardly see the BSS police getting up-tight about air hose.... only trips and slips issues.

 

Is there a combined generator and compressor unit you can buy anywhere?

 

If you are going the compressor route how about a turbine driven alternator to produce your electricity? When you are using the compressor you sort of end up with free electric...I think.

 

Haven't got a clue how to put it together or if it's even possible.

 

I've used some seriously powerful air motors over the years made by Holman, Ingersoll Rand and I think a company called Gast so the drive motor is available it's a matter of coupling it to an alternator, possibly a 230v version, and ???????

 

I'm sure it's probably in existance somewhere so there's someone out there who'll tell me it's a daft idea or not.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Greybeard

[JohnO]

Safety wise I would rather have a 3 phase supply on my boat than a big inverter.

 

added

A friend has a 3 phase genny onboard, his only problem was he had to add a couple of inchs to the weedhatch!

we are saving up for the diesel compressor, air tools are the way to go and so much cheaper.

It is possible to use the phase's seperately, Chris W will hopefully bob along soon and explain better than me about balancing loads.

Edited May 12, 2008 by JohnO

[Sir Nibble]

Is there a combined generator and compressor unit you can buy anywhere?

 

If you are going the compressor route how about a turbine driven alternator to produce your electricity? When you are using the compressor you sort of end up with free electric...I think.

 

Haven't got a clue how to put it together or if it's even possible.

 

I've used some seriously powerful air motors over the years made by Holman, Ingersoll Rand and I think a company called Gast so the drive motor is available it's a matter of coupling it to an alternator, possibly a 230v version, and ???????

 

I'm sure it's probably in existance somewhere so there's someone out there who'll tell me it's a daft idea or not.

You mean an engine driven compressor to pressurise air which you then run through a turbine to drive an alternator? Better to cut out the middle man and belt drive the alternator instead isn't it? There's no such thing as a free lunch.