HAVE YOU SEEN THIS WEB SITE?

[fuzzyduck]

Reading this I get the impression you all think iits lies, how come?

 

Given my last page or so of rambling, I'm not going to answer this question. Have PM'd you

[denboy]

Sorry but i cant see the problem i have seen posts on the forrum describing brand x heaters are crap or brand b bilge pumps are crap why can`t a man whos spent alot of money on boat y call it crap

If it was all lies (which from the photos on the site appear to be true) then that would be a different kettle o fish

[Troll]

Another thing that strikes me as strange here is that there are lots of post with people worrying about paying good money to bad builders and so on, yet we here have what appears to be exactly this and yet everyone seems to be leaning towards the alegedly bad builders side. I really am confused

[Yoda]

Another thing that strikes me as strange here is that there are lots of post with people worrying about paying good money to bad builders and so on, yet we here have what appears to be exactly this and yet everyone seems to be leaning towards the alegedly bad builders side. I really am confused

 

It's a question of how its written and presented.

[Ex- Member]

Liability of hosts

 

Website hosts may be liable for defamatory material created by someone else but which they host. However, there are special defences available to hosts under the Defamation Act 1996 and the E-commerce Regulations.

 

Under the Defamation Act 1996, a website host will have a defence to a claim for libel if he can show that (i) he was not the author, editor or publisher of the statement complained of, (ii) he took reasonable care in relation to its publication, and (iii) he did not know and had no reason to believe that what he did caused or contributed to the publication of the defamatory statement. The defence under the E-commerce Regulations is expressed in similar terms.

 

In order to have the best chance of taking advantage of these defences, a host should not as a matter of course monitor/edit the content of websites that it hosts; however as soon as the host becomes aware of potentially defamatory content, that content should be quickly removed.

 

http://www.website-law.co.uk/resources/website-libel.html

 

 

That's interesting, just read the whole thing, and quite clearly there is a cover your ass aspect in the last paragraph. The problem arises that at which point something could be deemed as defamatory, and in respect of the website in question and it's content or any part of it not being published on the site a good decision. However with regard to a link to that site posted by a member shouldn't be a problem as there's nothing libelless in the link. I must conceed that from reading that I would be a bit more cautious if i ran the site and can appreciate a bit more why forum admin recently all over the net seem to be cuatious. However I would leave anything contentious in and read this last paragraph as to becomming aware that something contains defamatory content when a threat of court action is actually recieved. In reality i think it would be unlikely that any host of a forum would be found liable with the amount of defences available. However I do feel this can also be an infringment to free speech, where decisions on content could be removed under the guise potential defamatory content, when wanting to remove things not liked by certain people. However I see no evidence of that thus far so will keep an open mind.

 

It's annoying when you get bad service and ripped of by companies big and small. From reading that guidance it seems the law is on the side now of people with the power and money to litigate against people critising them. Are we getting into a situation where if we slag off large companies like telecommunications banks and the like, that a quick letter to the site administrator will have any negitive comments removed about those companies critisized as it may be deemed libalous. Technically something is not defamation until being deemed so by the law, it seems that we are now not able to comment on poor service or goods, and I believe an erosion of our freedom of speech. I say print and be dammed which pirate has done, and good on him I say.

 

Hopefully forums like this won't become all pc and not say boo to a goose in fear of litigation. The internet is a freedom the powers that be dislike immencely, with regard to freedom of speech, it sems that they are using the law now to try and keep us quiet.

 

Scary

[Troll]

It's a question of how its written and presented.

 

 

That makes you side with a well spoken or well written con merchant, thief or as in this case alegedly bad builder, I`m sorry but I think your off your rocker

[Moley]

I can't even be bothered to read any more of this drivel, but it strikes me as a bizarre coincidence that the protagonists in this argument all seem to share the same fundamental deficiencies in spelling, grammar or syntax. How many people are actually online here?

 

I'm going back to the VP

[Ex- Member]

Anyway, if I come to your house or boat Julian I would abide by your rules even if I considered them the product of a paranoid mind. I might want to spark up a big spliff for example. How would you feel if I ignored your requests not to?

 

I might be annoyed, although I haven't had a splif for ages, and might join you . However this is an open forum for discussion, and if you came to my house or boat with an opinion I would listen and discuss it. Freedom of speech applies everywhere, even on the net, well to a point it seems

[Enforcer]

I can't even be bothered to read any more of this drivel, but it strikes me as a bizarre coincidence that the protagonists in this argument all seem to share the same fundamental deficiencies in spelling, grammar or syntax. How many people are actually online here?

 

I'm going back to the VP

 

Ive seen that this is one of your obsesions on here, cant you see theres just you and I?

 

Ha haha You couldnt make it up

 

Do you ever feel stupid?

[Mr Who (Dr Whos`s Brother)]

Ive seen that this is one of your obsesions on here, cant you see theres just you and I?

 

Ha haha You couldnt make it up

 

Do you ever feel stupid?

 

Ever heard the saying "where theres no sence?

 

Anyone with a differing view to Moley is actually Me, or should I say Us lol

 

It gets worse on here every day Lol

 

Enjoy ya pint

[cheshire~rose]

How many people are actually online here?

 

I'm going back to the VP

 

It was all so predictable when an unknown person member decided to become everyones friend

 

I will join you Moley...... its just so tedious

[Chris J W]

It was all so predictable when an unknown person member decided to become everyones friend

 

I will join you Moley...... its just so tedious

 

Anyone for a pint of "Carries Old Peculiar" ? Special offer in the VP - Buy four for the price of five, get three with a fresh bottle of tap water.

[Malarky]

No.

 

Theres no way my pages would have been published if we had come to an agreement.

 

This is my last resort, But I am not going to bow down, I have lost thousands.

 

As I said, I await solicitors letters, I am totally legal and honest, I have had two years of seeking legal advice, and my builder was warned I would not lie down and forget it.

 

Good on you, we define what the internet is for, it should'nt define us.

 

Surely if offended parties caused agro to this site you'd be willing to be responsible for your actions, unlike the fitters you cite, I think it best to state that somewhere when posting this kind of stuff, to avoid any confusion on the forum.

Invariably it seems being honest is'nt the key to sucess, but at best you should be able to speek your mind, and at worst; in these instances; it can be entertaining, in a way. So at least someone somewhere may gain from your loss.

 

If you are fortunate enough to have a solicitor though, I would'nt involve any more people then necessary untill you have an outcome. It seems that in general, people will shy away from the side of the victim.

[bag 'o' bones]

Can't really see what the problem is to be honest I mean if slagging off bad products were a crime, the 'Which' report magazine would have been put out of business years ago!

 

Another example:

 

'Top Gear' how many times has Clarkson slagged off a perfectly good car just because *HE* didn't like it!

 

Come on people lets keeps the whole thing in perspective. The boat is so obviously crap and thats the end of it.

 

BB

[Ex- Member]

There's no doubt that if this happend to me I would have probably had a website ready to be uploaded within a couple of months. It's so easy for so called boat builders to go bust and set up again like many have, and continue to do so. leaving people with shattered dreams, these people deserve all they get, and in the 2 years this dispute has been going, how many other prospective boaters have been ripped off by this particular builder. Wonder if any came on here for advice. Did you contact trading standards by the way. There is a way I believe of exposing bad traders if trading standards have recieved complaints about a particular company. They cannot divulge individual complaints, but can state that other complaints have been made. That is public information so if you publish the fact that trading standards have recieved complaints about a particular company you can publish that fact without fear of any defamation. I'm not totally sure about it, but did have a dispute with a company some years ago, and it was an option someone offered as leverage to get my money back.

 

Personally I would probably stand outside his yard with a big placard telling people to stay well clear.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Julynian

[blackrose]

Hopefully forums like this won't become all pc and not say boo to a goose in fear of litigation. The internet is a freedom the powers that be dislike immencely, with regard to freedom of speech, it sems that they are using the law now to try and keep us quiet.

 

Scary

 

It's not scary at all. Anyone who wants to invoke freedom of speech is perfectly at liberty to set up their own website and say whatever thay want, libelous or otherwise. Jon has simply requested that we don't do it on his website.

Edited April 4, 2008 by blackrose

[blackrose]

Can't really see what the problem is to be honest I mean if slagging off bad products were a crime, the 'Which' report magazine would have been put out of business years ago!

 

Another example:

 

'Top Gear' how many times has Clarkson slagged off a perfectly good car just because *HE* didn't like it!

 

Come on people lets keeps the whole thing in perspective. The boat is so obviously crap and thats the end of it.

 

BB

 

If only life were that simple. Which Magazine & the BBC have teams of lawyers to tell them exactly what they can and cannot broadcast. These people will also be able to mount a vigourous defence in the event of any libel action arising. I'm not sure that Canal World has quite the same facilities at its disposal.

 

Anyway, if people insist on using the forum as a means of retribution in order to 'name & shame' someone they claim has done them wrong, and in doing so they breach forum rules, then as far as I'm concerned they can carry on. It's not my website - why should I care? Some of us were just trying to convey the legal reasoning behind the rules, but since others think they know better...

[cheshire~rose]

If only life were that simple. Which Magazine & the BBC have teams of lawyers to tell them exactly what they can and cannot broadcast. These people will also be able to mount a vigourous defence in the event of any libel action arising. I'm not sure that Canal World has quite the same facilities at its disposal.

 

Anyway, if people insist on using the forum as a means of retribution in order to 'name & shame' someone they claim has done them wrong, and in doing so they breach forum rules, then as far as I'm concerned they can carry on. It's not my website -why should I care? Some of us were just trying to convey the legal reasoning behind the rules, but since others think they know better...

 

It may not be your website but it is one which you choose to use and presumably enjoy the benefit from.

 

For many forum members myself included it has become a channel through which a lot of extremely good friendships have been forged and a lot of extremely beneficial exchanges of information has occurred.

 

Nobody likes to hear of anyone losing money or being provided shoddy goods but there are laws about what can and cannot be said in a public forum and that is why the rules are there.

 

If those rules are consistently broken then it means the forum that so many of us enjoy the benefit from is at risk. Perhaps why you SHOULD care is because so many of us DO care.

[ChrisPy]

It may not be your website but it is one which you choose to use and presumably enjoy the benefit from.

 

For many forum members myself included it has become a channel through which a lot of extremely good friendships have been forged and a lot of extremely beneficial exchanges of information has occurred.

 

Nobody likes to hear of anyone losing money or being provided shoddy goods but there are laws about what can and cannot be said in a public forum and that is why the rules are there.

 

If those rules are consistently broken then it means the forum that so many of us enjoy the benefit from is at risk. Perhaps why you SHOULD care is because so many of us DO care.

Oi !! you said you were leaving to go to the VP. I agree with you, the whole thing is tedious. C'mon, let's get outta here and go have a pint.

[Gary Peacock]

Without getting anymore involved with the strange goings on here.

 

I don't see hosting a link on a forum to being any different to what a search engine does which in effect is a site made up of hosted links. If the forum isn't naming and making specific unsubstantiated claims then closing this or any other thread is censorship. (But if Jon chooses to do that he his perfectly entitled.)

 

At the end of the day disputes like this unfortunately in most cases come down to the customer and builder to sort out.

 

If that doesn't work you can try the builders trade associations (If they are members of any) trading standards and eventually legal action.

 

Even then you are not guaranteed satisfaction the infamous Cloe Lee saga is still dragging on after four years or so and the builder is back in court next month to have his day out again, the only people that I see likely to win are the legal people who have all taken their money already.

 

There are always two sides to every story and we have been stitched up in the past by customers and still have the debt collectors chasing a couple, so it isn't always just the customers who stand to loose money.

 

The one thing I have learned is it very much down to those involved to sit down and sort it out! Once that opportunity as passed it will not normally result in a good conclusion regardless of who is right or wrong.

 

Going to the press is not an option in the boating world because the boatbuilders have the boating press well and truly muzzled they are too advertising driven to ever make a comment or critical boat review.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[Jon]

I appreciate that boat builders are a very big issue to a number of members on here, particularly when things go wrong. However unfortunately i can not permit posts on here relating to personal negative experiences with specific boat builders. This is because on every previous occasion I have angry e-mails from the builder concerned and threats are made about legal action. In these situations it is normally thousands of pounds of money that is in question and builders will threaten anything to protect their reputation. While I do sympathise with those who have problems, I do not have the time or money to enter into any legal challenge with a builder and therefore I will remove any specific post on this site to prevent these situations from occuring.

 

The issues of censorship and free speech have been covered time and time before and my answer remains the same. As a user of this site, you agree to abide by the forum rules and guidelines. This is a private site, paid and owned solely by me and therefore I insist that certain rules are followed. Members who don't follow these rules will be asked to leave.

 

I think this thread has run it's course.

 

Many thanks,

 

Jon