To worry or not to worry that is the question

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Last year I ran my 1500 BMC for the first time in 5 years. I had just bought the boat and she had sat in  the marina being used as an apartment by the previous owners all that time . I did all the necessary new belts, hoses, oil, impeller, spill rail, coolant the lot. Filters everything, I now readily accept that I made a mistake in fitting the wrong O ring into the oil filter canister and dumped all the oil in the bilge. Ran the engine at very low revs for about 45 minutes but  Didn’t notice what was happening and the engine seized. It was a gentle siege because of the very low Revs and the engine has run well since for about an hour. I thought I had ‘got away with it’ until yesterday when someone told me I wouldn’t be able to tell until it unless it goes wrong on me. Would appreciate it if someone could check how long that piece of string is in their pocket and give me their opinion 

[Tracy D'arth]

I have seen many 1500 BMC engines that have seized, some through overheating, some through not being used for years. Most once started run OK.

If the bearings are not knocking or squeaking it is likely that a piston or pistons seized in the bore and stopped the engine.

I assume that you left it to cool whilst you sorted the o ring in the filter and it then started OK.

Do you have an oil pressure gauge and an oil warning light? If a gauge, what is the pressure at 1500 rpm hot and tick over,700 rpm, hot?

Does it sound OK? Any smoking from the exhaust?

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have seen many 1500 BMC engines that have seized, some through overheating, some through not being used for years. Most once started run OK.

If the bearings are not knocking or squeaking it is likely that a piston or pistons seized in the bore and stopped the engine.

I assume that you left it to cool whilst you sorted the o ring in the filter and it then started OK.

Do you have an oil pressure gauge and an oil warning light? If a gauge, what is the pressure at 1500 rpm hot and tick over,700 rpm, hot?

Does it sound OK? Any smoking from the exhaust?

 

I agree, I bet it has years of use in it.

[john.k]

The simplest thing to do is change the oil filter ,and cut the old filter apart and see if there is any bearing metal in the paper.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Mike on Sea Hustler said:

I thought I had ‘got away with it’ until yesterday when someone told me I wouldn’t be able to tell until it unless it goes wrong on me.

 

My opinion is any damage from missing oil will show up immediately as knocking noise rather than revealing itself some time later.

 

For an engine to stop from lack of oil must mean a bearing picked up and seized, or possibly the friction in a piston grabbed but the governor would, I'd have thought, just added more fuel to overcome the friction until full power was not enough. So given the engine still runs with no apparent ill effects I'm wondering if the seizure was something other than loss of oil, overheating perhaps, and the oil loss was coincidental. 

 

Bear in mind I know nothing about engines. 

 

[john.k]

Sea Hustler sounds like an offshore boat ,and personally ,I would not have an iffy engine in a blue water boat ..............I took the Gardner out of my boat and replaced it with a Detroit ,simply because the Gardner  was too old,and I wasnt willing to risk it .

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Tracy D'Arth,

Thanks for the reply,  I left it until the following morning, discovered the mistake I had made and fitted the correct O ring, replaced the oil turned it by hand a turn or two, and then cranked it over, it complained a little while on the starter. Mr Starter was not very happy for a few seconds,  there was some brief squealing while the oil ran up, as soon as the oil hit the bores it took off and fired up and ran without any knocking or other identifiable evil noises. There was a little blue smoke for about 10/20 seconds then nothing. I can't tell what revs I was at because the rev counter didnt/doesnt work (hope i've fixed that problem now) I have an oil pressure gauge and on a touch of throttle it holds at 35 PSI. I tootled round to the fuel bert at a slow tick over with no adverse signs of anything amiss which gave me the hope that "I had gotten away with it". As in everything in life, there is always the doom merchant and this guy the other day got me worried that I may have done some serious damage that is going to come back and bite me on the stern when I least expect it.

Tony,

You have helped me in the past with a water pump issue and if you say so, I think I will breath easier, you being the Master and all. Thanks

John. K

Perhaps I should have done that when I replaced the oil, if my paranoia gets bad enough, I will stick my head down the bilges and do that (you would not believe how tight the engine space is on my boat)

MtB

I have heard this expression before "picked up a bearing" I honestly do not know what is meant by it, Im thinking you are describing an end shell welding itself to the crank shaft but Im only guessing. Given the somewhat gentle way the engine stopped and the subsequent stiffness and squealing from the piston rings before the oil pressure got up, Im thinking and hoping that it was a piston sticking and not something lower down. I also hope that the absence of any discernible knocking from the engine does mean the Grindy Metal Gods were smiling on me that day and I did in fact "get away with it".

John. K Again.

 

Sadly the nearest she would ever get to being blue water is if I spilt some paint in the dock while refreshing her hull. She is a 24ft shoal drafted bilge keel Motor sailer and whilst I thank you for you input, I also envy your ability to "took the Gardner out of my boat and replaced it with a Detroit ,simply because the Gardner  was too old", I do not have that option. Thanks anyway.

I accept that I must almost inevitably have done some damage to the liners and/or rings. Engines are supposed to run with that slippery stuff keeping those metaly grindy pieces apart but I am hoping that because the engine is of the FBH generation, it will forgive the ignominy of my abuse and begrudgingly accept we all make mistakes. As it is 54 years old and I have just turned 70, Im hoping that it will show a little respect for its elders and continue to give me many more years of faithful service before we both finally swim off to Davy Jones's locker.

[Tony Brooks]

No liners on a 1.5, just cylinders bored into the block casting, unless at an overhaul in the past it was so badly worn the cylinders were "over size bored" and plus fit dry lines fitted.

 

I hold that around 40 psi when revving and hot, and around 12 to 15 psi when hot on idle is normally serviceable, but they are not set in stone. Both are minimums, Unless a clown ha seen at the oil pressure relief valve, I am not worried about the maximum pressure.

 

I think that what Mike meant by picking up a bearing was probably more like heat cause by lack of lubrication, expanding the journal so it "grabbed" the bearing shell. This may or may not result in the shells spinning in the connecting rod, but with no knocking noises, I doubt that happened. I am with Tracy and think a piston probably caused it to stop.

[john.k]

As I said,cut apart the oil filter element ...if there is no metal in the paper ,then you will be OK..........A well worn engine will run on the oil in the bearings for a while ............Back in the day ,I used to drain the oil from the busses over a pit ,then drive them across the yard to the oil tank to fill the new oil ............one of the drivers ratted me out ,and the owner went spare........ever seen a little rooster with a purple head ...that was him.

Edited March 22 by john.k

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Tony

Thanks again, the engine was rebuilt in 2000 (sales blurb said so anyway) but don't know if the bores were lined or not. I havent run the engine since last year because I also had to replace a core plug that had started weeping and she has been stood up pretty much since I did that. I intend to run the engine up this week end whilst clenching the butttocks very tightly. 

 

John. K

Honestly whoever designed the engine bay on this boat (Mr C Burnard Son of A Burnard of Fairy Fisher fame) spent about 15 seconds considering how the owner was supposed to service the engine. Even getting to the oil filter requires the flexibility of a snake and if I should drop anything while I do it and it falls in the bilge, it is impossible to retrieve it. so far, my best screwdriver, two sockets and countless nuts, bolts and washers are all lying beneath the engine and despite magnet fishing for hours, I still can't get y of them back. So oil filters come off as very last resort Im afraid. Following picture taken before starting any work on it last year, looks a whole heap better now. To fit the new core plug I had to create a small screw jack and brace it against the side bulkhead to force the plug in because there was no room to move a hammer let alone hit anything.

 

Edited March 22 by Mike on Sea Hustler

[Tracy D'arth]

If the filter is hard to get at you could fit the conversion to a spin on can filter, it involves changing just the cast filter head bolted to the block.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155706489240?      or cheaper

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225774168333?

Edited March 22 by Tracy D'arth

[Tony Brooks]

Or you can always take the filter and head off the engine in one bit so you can change the filter on the bench. You would need to get a packet f gaskets though.

[Mike on Sea Hustler]

Tracy D'arth

 

I like that idea, less little bits to drop into the bilge. Thanks.

 

Tony

Everything for economy and ease of function, I think the conversion kit may be the best way to go for the reasons given of less stuff to drop into the bilges.

 

Thanks both

[john.k]

You can also have a remote filter connected to the engine by hoses.........this is what I put on the Detroit ,with oil and fuel filters together ,alll spin ons.....The standard oil filter ws down beside the sump,typical automotive location.,hard to get at in a boat ........One point in favour of the Gardner ,the oil filter is high up,quite small and easy to change ,and virtually impossible to do anything wrong.

Edited March 23 by john.k