hydrogen boat with UK fuel cell completes testing

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, agg221 said:

The big challenge with battery (and any other energy) storage is energy density. Performance is measured as Wh/kg which is a direct measure for most transport applications but is also an indicator for £/Wh, although the two are not directly linked.

 

Agreed that LFP is now developing fast (partly due to certain patents ending) but at the moment it only achieves half the Wh/kg. In a car that roughly equates to half the range, which fits with the Chinese model of car ownership for local travel but less well in the West where longer ranges are expected and range anxiety is a real problem. When you are less driven (if you will excuse the pun) by range and more by price then it comes down to whether using twice as many batteries is cost-effective.

 

You hit a different problem when you go the opposite way and increase energy density, which is BoP and battery management systems . When a cell fails in a lead acid battery it can get hot and release hydrogen but there is very rarely severe damage beyond the battery itself hence relatively limited BoP and no BMS. When a lithium cell fails it can catch fire. The intensity is low enough that the design of the battery is allowed to be such that the fire can propagate but the probability is high enough that a BMS is required. If you increase the energy density further with sodium cells then I am not yet sure what level of control will be mandated. If it requires reasonable prevention of flame spread between cells then the net energy density may not increase significantly when you factor in the volume and weight of containment, and the cost will also inevitably be negatively impacted. I can’t yet estimate what the net effect will be.

 

 I should perhaps mention that I am not a fanatical zealot with regard to hydrogen, or any other technology for that matter. I have worked on parts of many different energy technologies, including batteries, and have no vested interest other than a potential consumer wanting a cost-effective source of energy for personal applications. I just prefer to work from facts rather than personal prejudices.

 

Alec

 

As do I -- AFAIK everything I have said here is factual... 😉

 

You keep focusing on the technical aspects of energy storage/distribution, but as pointed out above "Cheaper and adequate tends to beat more expensive and superior in the market nine times out of ten, with the more expensive and superior relegated to niche products." The problem for hydrogen is that the areas in which it is superior to batteries are few and often illusory, and the areas in which it is inferior are many -- and the killers are the economic case for both generation/distribution/storage (infrastructure) and end use (vehicle/boat cost), and low round-trip efficiency meaning most energy is wasted not used.

 

So it's widely acknowledged that though there may be niche applications where hydrogen makes sense -- for example where range or mass is of over-riding importance and cost matters much less, such as long-haul aviation -- these won't include most EVs or trucks, and for the same reason most boats, and not mass energy storage either (low efficiency).

 

Batteries are not by any means problem-free, but their disadvantages are well-known (because they're out there in huge numbers) and can mostly be coped with, and they continue to improve as technology advances. Hydrogen has much bigger and more fundamental problems which no amount of technology can fix, which is why there's almost none of it out there, and no real prospect of this happening in the future except in a few limited cases. And technology demonstrators which will make a few headlines and then disappear into oblivion -- see both hydrogen narrowboats, hydrogen cars from BMW and Toyota... 😉

 

All facts, not opinions 🙂

Edited January 17 by IanD

[bronskimac]

'A UK-based project has successfully tested the “world’s first” hydrogen-electric boat powered by a printed circuit board fuel cell (PCBFC™).

Funded by the Energy Entrepreneurs Fund as part of the Net Zero Innovation Portfolio, the HyTime project, led by Bramble Energy, recently concluded real-world testing.

Bramble Energy, in collaboration with custom engine builder Barrus, designed a 57ft narrowboat to demonstrate the potential of PCBFC™ technology.'

https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/18/uks-first-hydrogen-boat-tests-innovative-fuel-cell-tech/

[Mike Todd]

This is exactly the same project (as far as I can see) as started the other thread that has been running for a little while and in which many of the practical difficulties (largely overlooked in the press release) have been discussed.

 

As the OP is a new member (perhaps on a trawl for PR opportunities?) they may not be aware of the other thread. It would be helpful if the mods could merge to avoid unhelpful parallel discussions.

[IanD]

For the OP...

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 hours ago, bronskimac said:

'A UK-based project has successfully tested the “world’s first” hydrogen-electric boat powered by a printed circuit board fuel cell (PCBFC™).

Funded by the Energy Entrepreneurs Fund as part of the Net Zero Innovation Portfolio, the HyTime project, led by Bramble Energy, recently concluded real-world testing.

Bramble Energy, in collaboration with custom engine builder Barrus, designed a 57ft narrowboat to demonstrate the potential of PCBFC™ technology.'

https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/18/uks-first-hydrogen-boat-tests-innovative-fuel-cell-tech/

Topics merged....