Beta JD3 serial number

[dmr]

Could anybody with a Beta JD3 give me a serial number please?

 

Its on a plate on the side of the engine down below the intake manifold.

Its format is likely CD3029Xnnnnnn.  X is probably a D.

 

I am trying to buy a new engine and these come with lots of factory options so I need a serial number to get the options that Beta use.

For some reason the John Deere engine database does not recognise my engine, maybe because its really old.

 

[Tonka]

Is that the second one that you have worn out ?

[john.k]

It may be the JD 3179D engine ...........179c/i is 2.9l ........

[dmr]

33 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Is that the second one that you have worn out ?

Yup

 

We got the boat with a sick engine so it was really somebody else who seriously wore that one out, but we have worn out the replacement all by ourselves.

We have done a lot of boating.

I suspect the JD3 is vulnerable to bore wear due to all the slow revving but we have done 15,000 hours so I reckon that is reasonable.

Except for bore wear everything else is fine.

I am looking at rebuild vs replacement options but another new engine is very tempting, can then hopefully do a lift out and in on the same day.

I am not even sure if its possible to buy a new engine as its not stage III compliant or whatever, but it will get harder in the future so if I can get a new one now then I really should.

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

Yup

 

We got the boat with a sick engine so it was really somebody else who seriously wore that one out, but we have worn out the replacement all by ourselves.

We have done a lot of boating.

I suspect the JD3 is vulnerable to bore wear due to all the slow revving but we have done 15,000 hours so I reckon that is reasonable.

Except for bore wear everything else is fine.

I am looking at rebuild vs replacement options but another new engine is very tempting, can then hopefully do a lift out and in on the same day.

I am not even sure if its possible to buy a new engine as its not stage III compliant or whatever, but it will get harder in the future so if I can get a new one now then I really should.

I was having a bit of work done on my BD3 by a canal engine specialist who stated that he has not done many BD3's but he has done a few JD3's which did surprise me. Good luck with finding one

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, john.k said:

It may be the JD 3179D engine ...........179c/i is 2.9l ........

It will be the 3029DF120 Powertech. 

For an American company Deere have been metric (in capacity) for ages, though all the nuts and bolts are imperial.

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

I was having a bit of work done on my BD3 by a canal engine specialist who stated that he has not done many BD3's but he has done a few JD3's which did surprise me. Good luck with finding one

 

I have heard that Beta sold about 150 JD3s and maybe 100 BD3s, but I see a lot of boats with the JD3 and not many BD3s so don't know where all the BD3's have gone.

 

[Tonka]

There is a refurbished one on ebay in Staffordshire being sold for just under £5 000

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

There is a refurbished one on ebay in Staffordshire being sold for just under £5 000

I don't yet have a price for a new one, but that looks expensive to me.

Its RCR/Key Diesels who I do not trust, the refurb might be nothing more than a coat of paint.🙂

It also looks rather odd, it doesn't look like the Beta marinisation so maybe a DIY conversion? I have heard that a few people have done their own marinisation of the 3029.

[john.k]

They are a wet sleeve motor ,and very easy to work on ..........Ive done lots of the 4cyl version ,the 4039 ,used in tractors .........aftermarket parts are very cheap too ,although Indian made I imagine.

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, john.k said:

They are a wet sleeve motor ,and very easy to work on ..........Ive done lots of the 4cyl version ,the 4039 ,used in tractors .........aftermarket parts are very cheap too ,although Indian made I imagine.

 

4045🙂

I've rebuilt petrol engines before but never done a diesel or wet liners but a rebuild (overhaul) is an option, though I no longer have access to all the micrometers etc that are needed for a proper job. I don't think it would be easy to do an overhaul in the engine room, would need to lift and turn the engine to get to the sump, so lifting it right out would be the best option.

The cheap overhaul kits are indian, but I suspect the engine itself is now possibly made in India? Dunno if the genuine parts are a lot more expensive.

I need a price on a new engine before I make the decision. The last one I got in 2009 was surprisingly cheap but I think I got a special deal.

[john.k]

Id think that the only thing needed to recon the motor would be a home made liner puller ......mine was a some bits of steel and a length of 3/4 allthread...............The piston/liner kits come ready to fit ,and if you just replace the crank bearings like for like ,you probably wouldnt need a micrometer .

[Tonka]

There is a Hudson 62 ft boat for sale at Brinklow Marina on the Northern Oxford with a JD3. If you are in the area you could have a look and make a note of the serial number

[dmr]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

There is a Hudson 62 ft boat for sale at Brinklow Marina on the Northern Oxford with a JD3. If you are in the area you could have a look and make a note of the serial number

 

Hudson did fit a lot of JD3's

We are now up on the Rochdale for the winter so the Oxford is a long way away.😀

I do wonder if the sad  loss of Mr Hudson was a factor in Beta deciding to discontinue the JD3.

[john.k]

My recall of the JD motors is that the metric designation ones were made in Saran ,France,and the cubic inch ones were made in Waterloo ,Iowa .......so a 4039 and a 4239 were similar but one had a DPA injector pump,one had a RoosaMaster pump (also called Ambac ,or Rotodiesel)

[Mike Adams]

I have rebuilt a couple of these engines and replacing the liners is the only difficult bit and that isn't very. I found an agricultural supplier specialising in JD in the midlands that sold me the pistons and liners. I will see if I can find a contact. I would think, other than the liners/pistons that anything else is worn out at all. I think beta messed around with the fueling of these engines to make them run slower and maybe they had a heavier flywheel . If you buy an off the shelf engine from JD it is likely to want to tick over at the standard 800rpm which may be too fast for your application. You could probably repair it for less than grand.

I found this chap helpful for parts

Nick Young Tractor Parts Ltd

Unit 2, The Forge, Moor Rd, North Owersby, Market Rasen LN8 3PR

[dmr]

Thanks.

I already have the contacts for a couple of JD agents, and its all veryimpressive and computerised, you can search out all the parts online then collect them from a chosen dealer. If you put the engine serial number in it knows which bits are correct. These will be expensive JD parts though rather than the cheaper pattern parts.

Its the standard flywheel, a bigger one would be lovely but I don't think JD do them as A factory option .

I am pretty sure that Beta just turn down the idle speed screw on the injection pump to get the lower tickover, though I think its a bit marginal and there might be another adjustment required on some pumps but Bet are tight lipped about this. Our current engine gets a little unstable sometimes when it first starts. I suspect the main leaf springs under the plungers might be what needs adjusting.

Did you replace the big crankshaft seal ok? In the past I have had a few problems with getting big seals to go in square (and not as big as this one?)

[Mike Adams]

Yes but I made up a tool to do it. Some JD seals come with a plastic part to press them in. It's a funny 2 part seal as I remember that you cannot separate so you only get one chance. I will try to find the tool but it was a few years ago now. If you have a stanadyne pump rather than a CAV it is probably a US sourced unit. I think the engines had options for different sized sae flywheels but Beta may just have added a mass ring. I think Beta set the tickover at 400rpm which probably didn't allow enough lubrication to be thrown on the bores and hence the increased wear. You can replace the liners in the engine without removing the crankshaft. The JD manuals are very good if you haven't got them.

[dmr]

29 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Yes but I made up a tool to do it. Some JD seals come with a plastic part to press them in. It's a funny 2 part seal as I remember that you cannot separate so you only get one chance. I will try to find the tool but it was a few years ago now. If you have a stanadyne pump rather than a CAV it is probably a US sourced unit. I think the engines had options for different sized sae flywheels but Beta may just have added a mass ring. I think Beta set the tickover at 400rpm which probably didn't allow enough lubrication to be thrown on the bores and hence the increased wear. You can replace the liners in the engine without removing the crankshaft. The JD manuals are very good if you haven't got them.

 

Its a Stanadyne pump though the engine is actually built in the French factory. The manual does mention a CAV pump option but I have never heard of one in real life.

Beta don't add any mass to the flywheel, the lack of inertia is possibly one of the weaknesses of the JD3, but Beta use a very complicated driveplate to try to stop gearbox rattle.

I have also wondered if the slow revving lack of lubrication is a problem but there are are spray jets aimed at the pistons and I get good oil pressure (20psi) at 450rpm.

15,000 hours is not bad but I suspect it would have been more if the engine had run faster/worked harder, but it might well be the low temperatures above the piston rather than lubrication below that is the issue.

 

The original engine had very good bores over most of their range, honing still visible, but a significant wear bulge in the ring turn around region, but I am sure this engine  had eaten some metal so can't conclude anything from this.

 

I suspect running on HVO might reduce the bore wear, but really I am unlikely to need 15,000 hours out of the next engine as that will take it to about 2038, either I won't be boating anymore, the canals will be shut, or diesel will be banned.

 

If I can get a brand new engine at a good price I will go that route then rebuild the current one at my leisure. Its difficult to lift out (through the side hatch) so would be much more convenient to do the out and in on the same day, which is what we did last time.

It would be good to have a spare engine to play with, maybe to investigate a bigger flywheel etc, but I have more project ideas than likely years of life left to get them done. 😀

[Mike Adams]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Its difficult to lift out (through the side hatch) so would be much more convenient to do the out and in on the same day, which is what we did last time.

I'm a cheapskate but I would lift it up from the roof, take off the sump and replace the liners and pistons. I would be concerned how a new engine would perform at low speed and you really don't want 700 -880rpm tickover. As time goes by they make subtle changes to the design to reduce emissions. The last one I had really didn't like a slow tickover. A mass on the flywheel can work. I managed to get a car diesel engine running at 400rpm by doubling the flywheel.

[dmr]

15 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I'm a cheapskate but I would lift it up from the roof, take off the sump and replace the liners and pistons. I would be concerned how a new engine would perform at low speed and you really don't want 700 -880rpm tickover. As time goes by they make subtle changes to the design to reduce emissions. The last one I had really didn't like a slow tickover. A mass on the flywheel can work. I managed to get a car diesel engine running at 400rpm by doubling the flywheel.

 

Yes, you say all the right interesting things 😀

I am moderately confident that if I can get an engine to the original spec it will be fine, and any changes will be to the injection system which is (relatively) easy to change.

The JD3 is a non certified "DF120" engine. When we needed a replacement at short notice there was quite a long order/shipping delay, but a stage 1 emissions  "150" engine was available immediately at a good price, I think it had been incorrectly imported, so I took it. I reckon it injects later and faster. It works well and I think produces less gearbox rattle (better torsionals) but it does tend to soot up the injectors.

 

The more recent spec engines are common rail turbo charged so I want nothing to do with those.

Each engine comes with a whole range of options, including block and piston options, so as long as the option codes can be matched it should be ok????

 

We met a bloke on the K&A with a real DIY boat, can't remember the engine model, but he had bolted two flywheels together to get good low speed performance.

 

There are side hatches both sides so it is possible to construct a gantry within the engine room, sitting on the gunnels.

Thinking back, when we got the boat my optimistic plan was an in-situ rebuild and I stripped out some of the engine before finding the extent of the damage. Rather than lift it I took the gearbox and other bits off and turned it to sit on the flywheel housing giving decent access to the top and bottom.

Im getting older and not sure I wan't all this mess and hassle again 😀Its very tempting to just stick a new engine in and go off boating.

We sleep in the back cabin and walking past a nice clean engine everyday is good for the spirit, but walking past an nasty oily engine with its guts on display was less good.