pete harrison

The other two Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. tugs had their hulls built by W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd., Northwich and are thought to have been cabined and fitted out by Harris at Bumblehole. Another point of interest is that REGINALD was named COOMBSWOOD when first converted but strangely the B.W.B. index number dates from 1983 (all old boats, including this 1976ish build should have been caught in the initial allocation of numbers in 1980/81)

I'm afraid a dock book or plant register was too much to hope for. I spent several hours yesterday at Dudley Archives and Local History Centre, Coseley but this is not the home of the hoped for Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. archive. What they had was about 200 / 300 Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. documents donated by ? in 1998 that included various committee minutes, various letters, various tube specification, a few publications e.t.c. but nothing at all about their boats. There were some other documents about other local canal users (especially N. Hingley & Sons Ltd. and their subsiduary company's) but nothing really specific to individual boats. The only thing of interest I found was the date when the B.C.N. Company started their tug service through Gorsty Hill tunnel (and for anybody interested it was 09 February 1914). The search continues.

Clearly, as already expressed by several people here you can call your boat whatever you like but if you change the name you will have to get used to people asking whether it used to be ECLIPSE. Several former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. names have already been re-used on modern boats, both intentionally and un-intentionally. ASTRAEA is a name that has not been re-used to my knowledge, or at least not post 1980 when British Waterways Board started keeping computerised records. My personal preferance, and one that would keep things easier for historians / enthusiasts is if your steel hulled boat took on the name of a broken up wooden hulled boat.

The current motor boat SEVERN was built alongside the remains of the old SEVERN by Jem Bates at his Puttenham boatyard on the Aylesbury Arm. Jem told me that the old SEVERN was known as the 'gunwale boat' prior to his acquisition of it as thats about all that there was. The old hull was used as a template but I am sure there was no counter block to move onto the new boat. The new SEVERN was launched in October 1997 and the remains of the old boat were cut up. As is usual in these reproductions the iron work from the old boat was transfered to the new boat giving some historical authenticity to maintaining the name SEVERN. The other historical link with this boat is its 25hp Seffle engine which had been in the former F.M.C. motor boat LILY from 1963 to 1998 and had been supplied new in about 1956 to Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company (fitted into their motor boat MALLARD or SANDPIPER - both of which had Seffle's).

I am an occassional steerer with "Freinds of Raymond" steerer, having got involved shortly after they bought NUTFIELD when they needed members that could handle a pair. I always object when I hear members refering to RAYMOND as a "restoration" as it clearly never was. It is a new wooden boat that has has merely taken the identity of an older boat, although the new boat does use iron work taken from the older one. I think this is the same with the motor SEVERN and the horse boat SATURN, both of which had their old hulls broken up. The term "anorak" is used quite a bit within this forum which I think is both a shame and unnecessary. We all started out knowing little and surely with the passing of time have learnt enough to educate the misguided enthusiast rather than ridicule him / her.

The Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Limited, and later "British Waterways" used the term 'Steerer', i.e. Steerer Harrison. This term is used on both period fleet lists as well as film productions. Most health registration authorities used the term 'Master'. I prefer, and use the former. I would recommend speaking with as many boat owners as possible before committing yourselves to any former carrying boat. This may help you choose from the several different types of working boat available, their advantages and downfalls as well as the names of the worth while narrow boat restorers. There are several working boat gatherings throughout the year and throughout the country. I owned a Large Woolwich pair some years ago, the narrow boat design that I still prefer.

The Gelatinous White Co. Ltd. boats went something like this:- 1914 - SHAMROCK (wide boat - Uxbridge 493, 27/10/1914 - exSamuel Phipkin, Hillingdon) 1921 - PERCY (wide boat - Brentford 403, 15/11/1921 - exWiiliam Peek, Slough) 1924 - DEER (narrow boat hired from W. H. Walker Bros. Ltd. - Paddington 311, 07/10/1924 - sold by 'Walkers' 1925) 1925 - HENRIETTE (wide boat - Paddington 314, 26/05/1925 - later sold to Thomas Clayton Paddington) Ltd.) It does look like the Gelatinous White Co. Ltd., Filocol Works, Harefield only operated one boat at a time but of course there may have been other boats owned or hired by this company that I do not have records for. I also have no record of any of these boats being sunk in either Boyer's or Hawtrey's pits at Harefield, although there are about 8 boats I have not yet been able to identify.

I only listed wide boats specifically involved in the chalk trade as that is what was asked for. I do not have a date for when Thomas Clayton (Paddington) Ltd. took over the remaining Gelatinous White Co. wide boat (HENRIETTE) but it could well have been into the 1930's or even the 1940's, the boat appearing to be new in 1925 and the Grand Union Canal gauge table last being amended on 05 July 1946. I think it is very possible that the 'chalk' boats refered to were either cement or asbestos carrying boats, both of which operated from Harefield. As far as British Portland Cement Manufacturers Ltd. boat UXBRIDGE is concerned it was health registered as Port of London 519 (15 October 1927) as a wide beam motor. I have no reference to either a former or subsequent owner and the health registration was cancelled on 01 April 1949. Interestingly UXBRIDGE was not Grand Junction Canal gauged, or at least not under this boat name or owner. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of Mr Faulkner's book 'Grand Junction Canal' so I am unable to confirm whether this is the same boat.

I have all of the following as operators of wide beam boats involved in the carriage of chalk at the southern end of the Grand Junction Canal: Hollick & Co., East Greenwich Edward Reed, Southall Francis Newell, Southall Edward Wright Brooks, London Gelatinous White Co., Harefield The Gelatinous White Co. were certainly operating at least one boat during the 1920's (later taken over by Thomas Clayton (Paddington) Ltd.), the other four date back to the 1880's.

Cheers Paul. I have just spoken with the holders of the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. archives and I shall (at some point) pay them a visit, although they didn't seem to hold much hope of detailed boat information.

"or alternatively Stewarts and Lloyds brought your boat second hand off a different carrier, who had it gauged under their own name" This is what almost certainly happened with any boat that S. & L. Ltd. acquired after 1947 (and many prior to 1947), with S. & L. Ltd. name being added to the boats old gauge table but not always the new fleet number. As I have a very comprehensive B.C.N. gauge register database I am able to compile a credible fleet list very quickly, so I do have your gauge number it is just a case of working out which one ! I suggest you PM me with your boat details, or an e-mail address as and when.

Tell me about it, I've had a year off the boat research stuff and I've got so much to catch up on.

The boat in the DryDock pub is GLOSSOR (Large Ricky butty - both ends - centre section became a house boat tanked in steel latterly at Battlebridge Basin. Large Northwich motor is SEAFORD (owned by B.W.B. employee who lives at Bittell) Large Woolwich motor is BEAULIEU (recently sold - nothing to do with BARNES)

I do not yet have any details on Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. No. 107. I do however have quite a bit of other information that I can draw on. If you would like to share what you know about PRISTON then we'll see where it goes, and two people searching has got to be better than one ! (i.e. do you know what happened to the original stern end of your boat, which I am assuming is iron and I can already see that PRISTON was in service by 1981 by your B.W.B. index number).

My records give BETTY's owners as Noel and Angela Whitehill, and them selling the boat late 1977 to owners from Woolwich. I last saw KERBAU at Saul on 01 July 2006. It looked pretty much as in your photographs but without any windows and the cabin extended all the way forward. I understand that the owner may have had 'words' with B.W. and moved the boat to the Irish waterways ! (unconfirmed). While BADSEY and BARNES are being mentioned we (me and my wife) owned them from mid 1988 to late 1990, having bought them from the family who had them off Dave & Jill Humphreys. Our rapidly expanding family forced their sale, something I have regretted ever since.

I lived between Gas Street Basin and Sherborne Street Wharf between 1980 and 1985 and I don't remember this boat at all. The only boat of this type I recall was RICHARD, but that was a house boat at Hockley Port. I do have in my records that BETTY was sold to owners at Hawne Basin in 1980 (having being sold twice in the late 1970's), and they subsequently 'replanked' the boat with steel. BETTY in its new form was still at Hawne Basin during June 2005

Tim is quite correct, Parsons made the gearboxes and fitted them to other manufacturers engines. In the case of the Armstrong Siddley range of engines they were marketed as: Parsons Goosander - Armstrong Siddley AS1 mated to Parsons box Parsons Merganser - Armstrong Siddley AS2 mated to Parsons box Parsons Peregrine - Armstrong Siddley AS3 mated to Parsons box A true Parsons marine unit that uses an Armstrong Siddley AS model will have two brass serial number plates, one on each side of the fan shroud / bell housing. They are clearly marked as to which is the Armstrong Siddley number and which is the Parsons number.

This is a different EILEEN, being described on the gauge table B.C.N. 1038 as 'cabin wood'. If this were a re-gauge then the previous B.C.N. gauge number is recorded as a 'late number', but no late number is recorded at all on B.C.N. 1038. I would also usually expect to see a cancellation and transfer on the old B.C.N. table, again B.C.N. 18791 does not show this. T. & S. Element do not appear as an owner on any of the three sets of tables I have studied for B.C.N. 18791 although this company and the boat name EILEEN appear on the version at The Waterways Trust archive, Gloucester (well on their database anyway). T. & S. Element, like many carriers re-used boat names on different generations of boat. This can make things very miss-leading.

The details you have quoted look very much like a transcript of the B.C.N. tables, the four figure number being the gauge number, the number in brackets being the fleet number, O.I. being open iron (O.W. being open wood) and then the gauge date. Perhaps they have been compiled in fleets for ease of use. If the 7 pages contain Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. gauge / fleet numbers greater than 90 then yes I am very interested. I am aware that sometimes boats were taken over from other carriers and did not have their fleet numbers altered, this clearly makes things more miss-leading and awkward to sought out. I have studied three sets of B.C.N. gauge registers (which took a couple of years) and entered them all into a Microsoft Access database so I am able to pull out any detail I want, including quickly creating fleet lists. The great problem with B.C.N. Registers is different versions of the same register contain different information and this is how I have found some of the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. fleet numbers and their relevant gauge numbers above 90. Malcolm does know me so feel free to mention my name.

For some time now I have been trying to compile a Stewarts & Lloyds fleet list. I have gone through three sets of B.C.N. gauge registers all of which confirm the last 'new' boat gauged for them was B.C.N. 2289 on 11/08/1948 - fleet number 90 (this was in fact an old boat but was consistent with their numerical fleet list). After fleet number 90 / B.C.N. 2289 no new gaugings took place for Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. although several old gauge tables were altered to read them as the current operator but only a few of these recorded the change in fleet number. I know that Stewarts & Lloyds fleet numbers went up to at least 124 meaning at least 34 boats were added to their fleet between 11/08/1948 and the fleet disposal in 1976. Now for the big question:- did anybody go to Coombeswood during the 1960's / early 1970's and record what was there, with the details including both the fleet number and gauge plate number ? Alternatively does anybody know where this information may be available from ? This is particularly frustrating as I went there several times during the the early 1970's and was even involved in moving out several boats in 1976 after they had been sold (I was a teenager back then without the level of interest I have now - I know, no excuse)

O.K., so while we are on the subject of engines when did the AS3 go into SATELLITE, and what happened to the AS2 (i.e. has it gone into another boat) ?

PEARL (originally F.M.C.Ltd. steamer BARON) was fitted with a three cylinder Bolinder 1053BR cold start full diesel of 35hp when at the Northampton rally in 1971, and I think may still be in the boat now. This had originally been supplied as a new engine to W. Cresswell & Son., Oldbury on 04/06/1956 for their wooden tug CORONATION No. 2 and was fitted into PEARL in about 1960 (which was also owned by Cresswell's at that time).

I am aware of three photographs depicting PISCES at Stratford in 1964, but of course there may well be more. They were published in Waterways World August 1989 page 55, Waterways World May 2001 page 58 and Waterways World June 2007 page 79 with the latter being the only one showing people on board. Being the sad person that I am I actually have a record of PISCES Lister SR3 engine serial number, which is dated 1970 (20 on the serial number plate) and upon which I based my statement "Lister SR3 fitted in about 1970". I do not recall where the date "about 1982" came from for the Lister HR2 being fitted but I also have this engines serial number which dates it as 1978 ! Thanks Tim, thats the earliest date I have for the Lister JP2 being in ADDER.

I know my records are not always absolutely correct but I have PISCES as being sold by British Waterways Board in 1963 to a Stanley Glover, Birmingham who renamed it PISCES from WATER SPRITE. I have Hillingdon acquiring it in 1966 (some of this information coming from Tim Snowden, Hillingdon Council and the engine would have been changed prior to Hillingdon's purchase). When PISCES was a London Fire Service boat it was only on hire and retained its Russell Newbery DM2. The Petter engine was definately fitted by "British Waterways" as PISCES was laid up at Tardebigge during 1956 without an engine. When PISCES as WATER SPRITE was tendered for sale (tender closing date 07/06/1963) it was listed as having the Petter. I imagine the Petter was fitted when the boat became a trip boat in 1958, the conversion being carried out at "British Waterways" Ocker Hill yard. As this engine went into TROJAN in about 1965 I can only assume that the Turner V4 went into PISCES at about the same time, perhaps a month or two earlier. My records show the Turner was certainly in PISCES and fully operational by 05/1966. For the record I then have a Lister SR3 fitted in about 1970 then a Lister HR2 fitted in about 1982, which is the current engine. If my records are incorrect please correct me.

Yes, this is the same TROJAN. I understand Mr Sherrat acquired the boat in October 1962 (2 months before I was born !). The last positive observation I have for TROJAN is December 1988 when it was still tied above the lock at Rickmansworth. After the Bolinder 9hp was removed in about 1965 it was replaced by a Petter PH2 15hp, formally in the Small Northwich motor PISCES.