dmr

Its the injection pump! Worrying stuff here, it is rammed FULL of brown slimy stuff, just like I found on top of the injectors, and just like what plugged the return line last summer. No sign of water. Does not look like diesel bug. I need to do a lot of investigation but I strongly suspect this has been building up for a long time and that it goes straight through the filters then somehow builds up in the pump, maybe after stopping the engine when its hot???? Need to do a very careful inspection of supply lines. I did possibly spot a bit of this during a filter change a year or two back, maybe that lump came out of the return line and back into the supply? Engine has done about 8000 hours over 8 years. We have a bigger tank than most but also do a lot more hours than most so I don't think our fuel sits in the tank for longer than most other boats. I guess that the connection to my filter change is mostly just a very unfortunate co-incidence. ......................Dave

I make it about 10 cubic milllimetres on each injection, so a little ball of fuel about 3mm diameter. ...................Dave

The Waterfront, a tiny upstairs bar in the old wharf building, runs 4 real ales mostly from local micro breweries, no 6X, but they do often do Sharps if you like the big names. Quite a few from Plain Ales (Salisbury Plain micro). I suspect you will like the K&A, if I cant fix this engine we might still be at Pewsey when you get here. ................Dave

A bad injector can do that (according to the www) but all injectors are now tested and ok, Stanadyne man says fault on one (or two) cylinders on a rotary pump is very rare but I should know more very soon. ................Dave

Its a big strong engine with big timing gears, little potential for things to slip, and it runs well on one cylinder. Fresh fuel a week ago from reputable fuel boat...and it runs well on one cylinder. Hopefully will hear about injection pump inspection tomorrow. I promise to keep forum updated, even if it results in personal embarrassment! Need to sort this out quickly, battery charging and hot water now sorted but am rapidly becoming a K&A continues moorer and getting very attached to the local pub, tomorrow is Wednesday...cheap beer night for real ales. ...................Dave

Poor you, gout is often seen as a comical disease with a comical name afflicting comical men who eat rich food and drink too much port. It is not at all comical. I had a few attacks a while ago as an adverse reaction to some medication and it was the worse pain I have ever experienced. I remember lying on the sofa in the boat and seriously thinking that weeing myself might be a better option than getting up and hobbling 15 feet to the bathroom. ..............Dave

That's not totally off the wall, it would explain some of the symptoms. I did the tappets a few months ago but I thought of this too and was tempted to take the top off and check them, but I am sure this is a fuel issue. Problem came on suddenly (after I changed the filters) and tappets wouldn't do that...unless the rocker shaft had a sudden movement. Have thought of a snapped camshaft too (dreaming up more and more silly theories) but it runs on cylinder 3 which is furthest from the camshaft drive. Rotating engine by hand shows good compression on all cylinders. ...............Dave

Seals did look mostly ok but will look in more detail tomorrow, rubber seals mostly in return line but there is one in the supply line. Or maybe degrading/swollen rubber fuel hose???? .................Dave

Have checked the return line and its fine. Interesting as it did block in the summer which did give very poor running. It blocked with a slimy brown stuff which I don't think was diesel bug, (unless its a local attack), as have not seen anything in filters. Just found some of the same stuff on top of the injectors in the return line unions. Engine stop is solenoid on injection pump. I have just started thinking about things like this as injectors are tested fine (ish) and injection pump man says cylinder faults are rare on rotary pumps. Pump is getting stripped/inspected right now. As we are close to a Stanadyne agent here (only three proper agents in the country) and as we travel extensively in the summer including a fair bit of rivers I decided that the pump needs checking over anyway, especially as I have found slime in the injector return. ................Dave

Mike is a confident bleeder and sprayed diesel all over the engine room, then we had a couple of beers. Its a lot easier/safer bleeding with two people Mike maybe got a bit of air out, it was a bit inclusive, and the fault improved or at least changed. We have established that cylinder 3 is running ok, but both 1 and 2 are firing very weakly. This looks to relate to fuel flow from the injection pump rather than injector issues, though I believe that a stuck open injector can do odd things. I have repeated everything again this morning and this pattern is now consistent. I spent all afternoon getting the injection pump off. I did this before about 6 years ago and luckily had the various special tools that I made still on the boat. Tomorrow I will get the injectors out and take the whole lot to a Stanadyne agent. Getting the pump off the drive gear was a bit of a scary experience, The shaft has a taper and I felt I was getting close to the point of stripping threads on the extraction tool and just about to give up when there was a very loud bang as it came off. The engine has done 8000 hours so its probably about time to get the injectors checked anyway. Have had great help from a couple of forum members, bleeding and loan of a genny from Mike, and a big battery charger and a lovely slide hammer from Dinz. ..............Dave

Reading a bit more about this device, it looks like it will take off paint and "flash rust". That most likely means the sort of rust you can shift with a quick wipe with a bit of sandpaper. I somehow think it won't be much good at the "bottom of the gas bottle locker" jobs. Shot blasting or blood sweat and angle grinders will still be required for real rust. .................Dave

I am going to be controversial here. From another thread you might know that our engine is broken and so I am charging the batteries from a dead cheap 700w generator that a forum member (mtb) lent me, and a 20 amp Halfords "Ring" charger that cost £75. Our 20 amp Sterling charger (an old model) was not up to the job, not enough amps when hot, not enough volts, and wanting to go into float mode much too soon. The main advantage (and also potential disadvantage), of clever boat chargers is that they go into float mode so can be left operating unattended long term. If you are willing to manually control the charge by monitoring current and turning the charger off yourself then some bog standard automotive chargers will do a good job (a better job) for a fraction of the price. The Ring charger puts out 20amps when cold, maybe 13 to 14 when hot, and takes the batteries right up to 15v which is perfect for Trojans. Interestingly it was useless in battery charge mode but in "Engine Start" mode it works great. .................Dave

A mate of mine who worked in the automotive industry said that if all cars used lithium batteries then there would not be enough Lithium in the world to go round. Maybe this was just wishful thinking as his company made bits for internal combustion engine. I 'spose we could always go to other worlds and harvest the diLithium crystals but that would send the price thru the roof. ...............Dave

Done a few more test before Mike arrives as I would look silly if the engine fired up fine as soon as he got here. Still have a good airless supply of fuel arriving at the injection pump. But....Fault has now changed a little:...... Engine runs on one or one and a bit cylinder and can get up to about 900rpm off load, (1200-1400 is top speed on this engine) but after cracking open ANY injector line the engine will only run at a rough very slow tickover, but plenty of fuel spurting out of the open injector line. So fuel available on all cylinders but cant deliver fuel to more than one injector. Just digging out my injection pump removal tools????, .................Dave

That was my fault for my light hearted post referring to the lack of mooring here due to a row of three broken down boats. .............Dave

Thanks Tony. This makes total sense, I have never really thought about it before, just accepted the warnings about high pressure diesel and tales about it penetrating the skin. Thinking about it these warnings did come from people who did test there own injectors. I suppose if you were really really unlucky and cracked the union at the very exact instant that it was injecting..........?? ...and then all this new common rail stuff does presumably poses a risk. I expect with Brussels dictating what engines we put into our boats we will see common rail on the cut before long. (oooh getting close to politics here). Will try again tomorrow. Not going to take the injector pump till I am 100% certain that I need to. ...................Dave

I have changed the filters many times before and only got air into the injector lines once before, and bleed that out without any trouble so I do know how to do this. I have not succeeded this time which makes me think its not just air. I will try again tomorrow, and have accepted Mikes offer of assistance. We have actually helped each other a few times recently but mostly at drinking beer. Spent today sorting out alternative battery charging and totally re-plumbing the Alde, and bringing it back into service for the first time in many years. I will need a shower soon as I am starting to smell like a diesel boat. .................Dave

I am not very brave when it comes to cracking injector lines, I have heard tales of nasty accidents. I undo the big nut a little, wrap it well in kitchen roll, then start the engine, run it up to medium revs, then stop and see how wet the kitchen roll is. I am not brave enough to watch the fuel coming out, am I been silly? I did not wrap the union too well on one cylinder and it shot fuel all over the place. Sub topic, its not bog standard kitchen roll, its Regina Blitz. I used to swear by "blue paper" but I think the quality went right down hill about 10 years ago and I reckon "Blitz" is better than the modern second rate blue paper. Its also of strong non-fibre construction so does not leave little strand behind to get into the fuel system. ................Dave

I usually buy several filters at a time so they do sit around on the boat in the parts cupboard for quite a while. I did a second change of both filters but they are probably of the same age. Trouble is I am seeing a decent flow of fuel when I work the priming lever which suggests filters are ok. Also the one or one and a half cylinder firing thing is across the speed range. If it was restricted fuel flow I would expect it to get worse at higher speeds. ...............Dave

I like the air leak idea, anything that avoids an injection pump overhaul I would like a lot. Fuel system is Tank- Stop Cock- First Filter - Lift pump with priming lever - Second Filter - Injection Pump. Surely an air leak would have to be on the suction side before the lift pump? but the pump sucks ok with the lever and sends a good gulp of fuel out of the second filter. Any leak after the lift pump would be a fuel leak. I will investigate further in the morning. Engine has done 8000 hours, fuel system has done 14000 hours, so there is potential for build up of stuff in fuel lines maybe?, I did find a very slightly perished rubber seal in a spill rail union but there are no rubber seals on the supply side. ...................Dave ................Dave

I think I have a complete set of injectors somewhere on the boat but I just can't find them. However it does look like the pump is not delivering fuel to the injectors. Richard....have checked the fuel cock yet again and its still on, and the lift pump prime lever delivers fuel to the injection pump. ...............Dave

Ive just broken my JD3. Next step is to get injection pump off and down to main agent but any other ideas would be very welcome before I do that. Engine running fine. Changed both fuel filters (done this many many times before) Engine started on second go (unusual, always starts instantly) but running horrid. Worked out it was running on only one or one and a bit cylinders. Checked everything, rebled system, cracked injector lines. Fuel injected on cyl 3, no fuel on cyl 2, a little bit on cyl 1. Changed filters again, checked all fuel lines, including return. Engine started rough then came good and ran fine for ten minutes. Was able to get full speed in gear (don't tell CaRT). Then it dropped back to one cylinder. Fitted new lift pump. Still running on one cylinder. I am thinking it must be injection pump. But, I believe Stanadyne pumps usually run on all or none, rather than just one cylinder. Also, assuming I somehow got crap into the fuel line the problem started so quickly it wouldbarely have had time to get to the injection pump. Help, ideas welcome. I don't want to spend £100's on an injection pump overhaul if i've missed something obvious. one other thing, exhaust has got just a little louder of late but I have assumed this is just a baffle failing. ..................Dave

dB not Db!!!. Trouble is dB's come in many shapes and sizes so there is much potential for making things sound (ha!) better than they are. Anyway I am really impressed with that genny. Will send a pm later to discuss longer term plans. Right now I think I need a beer, failed to fix engine but got the BSS with only a trivial warning or two. Back cabin rug obscures the "Fuel Cock Below" notice! ................Dave

At last, after almost 10 years I feel like a real K&A boater, there is a cheap generator running on the front deck in a little improvised generator house. Thank you mtb. Its not the quietest but it sounds ok. If the old rule applies (1/3 for the factory, 1/3 for the shop and a 1/3 for the middlemen, then somebody has made that genny for about £60 how do they do it? Sadly the new lift pump has not fixed the engine so unless I am missing something obvious its time to get the Injection pump off. Will start a new thread later asking for forum advice. ...................Dave

I have also only needed to bleed the high pressure side once before. The lift pump has a priming lever which makes bleeding very easy. After doing the first (suction side) filter I pump fuel into a plastic bottle to shift the air then reconnect to push fuel into the second filter with the top bleed screw open. I did think that the lift pump was perhaps not pushing out fuel quite as enthusiastically as it should. Other option is that I somehow dislodged some crap that that has got into the injection pump. I stripped and inspected the filter head and the unions had been put in with a lot of threadlock so maybe a bit had come off. Its done 14000 hours so would be surprised if it did it now. Or maybe a dead spider hiding inside the new filter??? Removed the new filter and could see no sign of trouble. .................Dave