Earthwatcher

Two thoughts after looking at the blog: VAT, as has been mentioned already, is not a tax on luxury purchases but on goods and services. The second thought is that HRMC people can read and do read blogs, forums etc. I know this from bitter experience (no, they didn't "win" but they did make life pretty miserable for a time). Moreover they love unusual cases and Mark seems to be enjoying doing whatever he can to buck the system. This is fine, all power to you Mark, I hope you succeed since your aims to lead an environmentally friendly life are laudable. The advice to check with HMRC first before they come at you with all guns blazing is sound. Imagine the cost and worry if you get in to some sort of legal test case with them. Of course, they should be chasing much bigger fish, but the people with super yachts and super incomes to match, employ the best tax brains they can find (often former government tax inspectors), so the inspectors prefer to pluck at the low hanging fruit where they can. As others have said, they're not to be messed with, unless you consider it sport to bang your head on a concrete wall. That's probably more than two thoughts.

Another Les Allen 70 footer for the sake of comparison. Beyond the OP budget but it looks a very tidy boat.

Just noticed that XR&D build a Northwich trader-style boat. Any thoughts on how they compare with RW Davis? I loved the look of this tug (not an NT, I think, or maybe it is) in the owner pics and saw she was built at XR&D.

Lovely looking boat.

Since there has been much talk of Les Allen boats here, I wondered if a comparison of this one (sold) might help.

I agree, they're not a dealbreaker and I like the look. But nor would I want them attracting rust or falling off, both of which I'm told can happen. I guess it reminds me a little of the "go faster" stripes we used to put on our Ford Escorts when I was younger (I never did, had a Golf Gti that was the real business until I concertinaed it one icy night many moons ago). In this case, however I guess we're looking at "go slower" engines with nice plopping sounds.

Bugger, I checked online before posting that. I blame David. ?

Well, having gone through this conversation I'm only sorry it couldn't have been over a pint or two in a canal side pub (with real ale and skittles). Yup, I'm one of those target buyers Alan Fincher described (with still time to grow more authentic if the enthusiasm prevails) but am still torn about fake rivets though I understand a little better about real riveting thanks to this article. The debate over authenticity is never ending and you'll never get complete agreement. It's very similar to that that continues in the restoration and maintenance of classic sailing boats. I've decided that, for me, having a boat that looks good, sounds right and performs well inside and out is central to what I want from narrow boating and there does have to be work involved. It would be boring having something that was simply convenient. Mind, I don't want to live it in the way that those people do in "Victorian Kitchen" on telly, but wouldn't knock those who do. Most valuable of all was the indications on choice and pricing. I too like the first one in those two ads. I got the impression that there's nothing to be afraid of in a six-year-old boat. I like the tumblehome and I like tugs. There's just the two of us and a couple of dogs so something like this could well be the answer. I can live with the rivet sneers. My dad was a welder by trade. PS. I had no idea that that Russell Newbolt was still in business building engines, something else I've learned.

I don't know. I wouldn't flaunt what little expertise I have on whether the law is being flouted or not.

I know this is an old thread but I was searching Northwich Traders on Google and it brought me here (everything seems to come back to this forum eventually). I know there's a lot of fake rivet/bolt head prejudice about (I've heard the arguments) but I like the looks of these boats by R W Davis and have found a couple for sale. There's quite a price disparity between this one and this one reflecting their different construction dates I assume. If you had the money and were in the market for something traddy like this, which one would you choose? Or would you choose something else entirely? My thoughts are that the RN engine would be harder to maintain than the Gardner and maybe a bit noisier with less parts availability. I prefer green to red paintwork as the latter, I'm told, is prone to fading. R W Davis say on their site that their boats are always snapped up as soon as they come on the market, but not much snapping here as yet, probably, inevitably, due to price. Over a 100k for a six-year-old boat seems steep to me but, as I've said before, I'm still trying to work out the market.

He may be flouting the law by flaunting his gardening skills - I wouldn't know - but he's certainly not flaunting the law.

My wife doesn't think it's progress when she catches me watching narrow boat porn like this.

Thank you, I come here a lot, mostly peering in through the portholes, not sure about the pub, somebody might mention Brexit! Nah, surely not. PS. I spent ages wondering who this "OP" was until I guessed "original poster?" which would be me. I did wonder about using the boats wanted section but thought it was a bit forward to do so. I know that's what it's there for, but I noticed when someone did post a specific "want" it was quickly followed by a "you and everybody else" comment. Anyway I will post something there on behalf of everyone like me who thinks they know what they want, but don't really.

I think the portholes thing is something that's just settled with me, certainly wasn't there when I started looking. One thing that bugged me a little bit about the large windows on our hire boat was the lack of privacy when everyone who passes has a good nosey. But I did like the neat net curtains I saw on some boats. I like prisms too, they seem to shed quite a lot of light. Hatches throw plenty of light in too. I like hatches. The Colecraft boats seem good quality, and I appreciate the point that attitudes will change over time. The first time I saw an engine with its own room I thought "what's the point?". But I understand that now. Having a good looking boat, I think is important. I'm wondering if the answer might be to buy a boat a few years in and have a refit. I know this has proved popular among superyacht owners (there are more parallels between these two distinct worlds than you might think). Do any yards specialise in refits?

Yes, you're quite right, there's quality out there with bus windows but I've restricted myself and that's my bad. One per cent is indeed tiny and would explain a lot. Perhaps the answer is to get over the bus window prejudice which is probably steeped in an early childhood, always picking the same one on Play School. I'm not sure that quality is too difficult to define, easier perhaps to say what it's not, like Donald Trump, Love Island and anything worn by Kim Kardashian. Some boats look and feel right. Others, even when they're new, just don't. I don't think there's anything wrong with being picky, just needed a little whinge and thought coming here might help. More to the point, I wondered if this summer's market was about par for the course, or unusually thin. It just looks thin to me but I'm new to narrow boats (but not boating).

I think you're just about bang on there. I've recently (sort of) retired, thought about moving house, wept over the stamp duty, agents and solicitors fees etc, panicked over the prospect of packing up the accumulated stuff of a lifetime and thought that floating around might be fun. Sadly, so have thousands of other buggers in the same boat, but hopefully not mine when/if I find it.

I certainly don't have the expertise or rose-tinted spectacles to take on a historic boat but I do like the replicas, fake rivets or no. Shame I couldn't get to the Braunston meet just to look at and enjoy the work of those dedicated to maintaining those old boats.

Why is it a sellers' market? Presumably the dearth of affordable housing for young people has had an impact. When talking about a hidden market I was thinking about those that exist in other spheres such as jobs where many of the best jobs are never advertised. I've seen nothing of quality on Gumtree or EBAY, but not that much on Apollo Duck either. I wondered if I spoke to some of the fitters I might hear of someone ordering a new one and thus having one to sell.

Is there any kind of hidden market for narrowboats? Since joining the forum I've learned a lot about this world. After spending much of the summer so far, monitoring the brokerages while accumulating information on types, builders, fitters etc, plus all the gubbins that goes in to a narrow boat, I've been surprised just how few really good quality boats there have been for sale. Is it reflecting the housing market (which I've also been monitoring) or is it that people spend their summers enjoying their boats then think about selling or swapping in the autumn? Or have I become just too damn choosy? What I've decided I want: Trad/semi-trad or tug with portholes. Undecided: diesel or solid fuel stove, not too fussed, loo: compost or pump out engine: if old must be relatively easy to maintain and start and not too noisy, don't mind polishing but don't want to be covered in oil and diesel. I've always bought and sold my cars privately and sold a house that way once too - just advertised it in the local paper - but it seems to me that the brokerages have the NB market sewn up. If so, their shop windows are looking pretty bare. I just wonder if some boats are exchanged in other ways?

I'm not in a hurry (not hurrying is at the heart of narrow boating for me), couldn't fit much more in this year anyway, but I agree that new may not be the way to go for a first boat. Having said that, I have a much better idea what I want now, and realise that to get what I think I want I may have to wait a while. I have a better idea of what I don't want. I also think there may be a lot of fun in watching and influencing a build. I've been around boats for many years, just not narrow boats.

If I wasn't confused between want and need I'd never get anything, so I'm comfortable with that, thank you. I haven't got the years left in me for 10 boats. If I can't get it right with two, I'll give it up. As far as I can see, in what research I've done to date, the old technologies seem to work best, which is part of the attraction of narrow-boating.