PaddingtonBear

Hurricane heaters certainly look the business (so obviously superior to their rivals)but there is no contest when you compare the purchase and installation costs. A Morco instantaneous heater (paloma no longer available) can be bought for between 150 and 200 pounds and fitted by a fairly competant halfwit like me in half a day. Hurricane heaters are around £2400.00 and would require fitting by someone who knows their way around technical things if only to not invalidate the guarantee - lets say 8x£35.00= £280.00. Alright you get central heating but I have never felt the need quite honestly, in fact it is often much too hot on my boat and I have to have all the doors open. I very much regret not having the space for a Morco now.

A fantastic engine to have I have no doubt but yet again I would be highly dubious of rebuild/renovated claims without suitable detailed paperwork. The only way to rebuild an engine is as per Warrior Woman's 15 month rebuild fully detailed here www.nbwarrior.blogspot.com, look both at the blog and the hundreds of photographs which would give a novice food for thought I am sure: it even has a brief audio note of it starting and running. Contrast this with the trials and tribulations of the good folk of NB Hadar and their 'renovated' engine which are also detailed on their blog of the same name. Having said this I am sure that all the old hand on here will say They have all got two awaiting the right boat and that they know where a fully rebuilt 15 horse Bolinder is available for £400.00

The wooden boat is Fornax. I suppose that having an original? engine counts for something as as with most 'vintage' engines especially proper engines, namely those that were fitted to working boats, they are getting very rare. I know of 'superstar' rebuilder who is looking for a 2 cyl National for his Woolwich but I guess knowing him he would only want it for nothing Jem Bates reckoned that wooden boats are always worth less that their metal equivalents and they almost always cost more to repair and maintain(?) The figure that you mention are in line with Jem's. Perhaps £6000 is too much but the owner is very concious that if it was cheaper someone would buy it for the engine and scrap the rest. She didn't want that and all power to her for that although that may just be a sales ploy.

I/we were a very little bit interested in this boat. I spoke with a very nice sounding woman who told me that she had owned it for some years and that her sons had maintained it and undertaken repairs. I spoke with Jem Bates who said it had great potential BUT the repairs were not that great and that it would need a new bottom and the first two planks and possibly the rear end. He reckoned that this would be around £20000 which seemed a lot but then it is a load of work and I suppose grief too. So we decided not to even consider it especially as this would only return the boat to usable condition. The renovation/renewal back to something approaching its original state would be on top (Sorry Carl Whilst I am the first to dive in with the phrase 'cost of every thing and the value of nothing' the boat would have to be considerably cheaper (£6000?) to even get anyone brave enough to consider it otherwise it you want a wooden project with history you should PM Carl

If 'traditional' be the arbiter of our actions perhaps we all should have bucket and chuck it toilets and empty them in the 'cut' and for those of us with houses use chamber pots and empty them from our upper stories and what about those residents for whom the cut was the easiest and perhaps only suitable place to dispose of their rubbish It should also be noted that it was/is 'traditional' for women not to work and to stay at home and look after the children I had already built a blast shelter before I had the courage to post !! This cannot go on ......... yet again Catweasel is the voice of sanity

I don't know what they taught you at the big school but as even a horny handed son of toil like what I am knows combustion greatly alters the chemical properties materials so that only a long term and in depth research study could provide the answer to your question. In any event a good maxim is if in doubt - don't.

Whoops Mr Sensible(Catweasel) beat me to it - shows what a crap and slow typist I am

I see no one has mentioned the most all round efficient way to get hot water - an instant gas water heater. On our last boat we had a Paloma which was nearly 20 years old (the age of the boat) and it worked extremely well, only heating as much water as you needed when you needed it. I have no doubt the Chris will now provide all sorts of figures to prove otherwise and good for him but most of us don't spend our lives calculating the costs of things (although I do) but hopefully spend more time thinking about of the value of things. The big problem with instant gas heaters is that you are caught in a double bind - the BSS don't like them but they are considered ok if fitted by a 'competant person' which is usually defined as a Corgi registered installer who can't install them because of they don't have balanced flues. Consequently they are usually fitted by halfwits with little of no regard for any form of safety with sometimes tragic results. Their big advantage apart from their efficiency (yes, yes I know Chris ) is their cost; when I failed to drain ours down 2 winters ago and the boiler split I replaced it with a Morco at a cost of £150.00 inc stainless flue, which must seem like fantasy money to those on this forum forever fiddling about with their heating boilers.

Blimey, that is a nice boat Stewart. At least some people on the forum (and not just this forum ) have got taste, do you know who made it etc and does it have an 'engine'? Further pictures would be great. Jim (now you all know my name as well!!)

Are we talking a Liverpool Boat here Blackrose? I would rather be in a Springer or if my partner was party to this she would press the self destruct button(for me) and the ejector seat button for her rather than damage (or even scrape) a big Woolwich. In fact no matter what the circumstances I/we would always be wrong when dealing with those beatiful monsters.

I am very new to all this forum lark and I have just been emailed (PMd) by one of the stars of the outfit how do I reply? as it would be rude not too

As you seem to have far more knowledge that I and possibly most of the 'in house' experts on this forum please forgive me if this is stupid. Perhaps as Jabsco pump impellers are somewhat weak it would be better if you could find some way of directly driving the pump (for example see pictures of how this was achieved by Warrior Woman/RN on a 3cyl National on www.nbwarrior.blogspot.com and click her picture gallery) In her case it was achieved by utilising the fuel cam - this is apparently what is done on all the 'new' 2 cyl RNs. In any event the pictures will I hope provide much interest and inspiration. Hope this helps PB

Canal Boat especially next (Dec) months no seriously both Canal Boat and Waterways World have improved beyond recognition in the last couple of years but this forum is great if you cut through all the c... and personal animosity although the two main protagonists appear not to have been around for a while. Perhaps this will smoke them out - I have two knackered car batteries that I use to run a fridge and a freezer and I have a Sterling inverter/charger which seems not to work and it get hot and my boat is a Springer with its original wiring and ..... What do I do? ps I have got no money.

I suppose the answer is it depends on several factors, how much money you have, the history of the engine, the quality of the overhaul/rebuild (see Hadar's blog for a bad example of the former) and how available an engine is at the time that you want it. I understand from another forum that 2LWs in almost any condition are £10000 'trade' as there aren't any around any more - All the 'mine' engines have been used up. This posses a substantial problem to those who wish for a 'traditional' engine in their boat as the scarcity and the inexactitude of words like rebuilt/refurbished/overhauled leaves those who wish one open to a substantial risk of exploitation. I am afraid unless you are like Carl or Gibbo and can get anything for a sack of ferrets and two jam jars the only way to go is to pull up the £16800 and have a 'new' 2 Cyl RN although I think a 3CYL National is just the business :cheers:

First Post !!! I would not buy either of them especially as there seems a far too close relationship between the vendor/refurbisher/'surveyor' and the broker. There are far too many suitable boats for sale out there without you being messed about like this. Overplating is problematic unless it is done very properly as often the 'patches' trap moisture and the tin worm works from both sides at once It is also very difficult when often words in common useage - surveyor, refurbished, rebuilt, well maintained, regularly serviced mean different things on 'the cut' than they do in the rest of life (except for second hand car dealers, estate agents and of course prime ministers) so again never take the word of anybody as gospel - unless there is physical evidence don't believe anything). Having said that I/We have bought 2 boats in the last 4 years 1 for 18000 and 1 for 40000 both off of Apollo Duck neither had the sniff of a survey, one didn't have a current BSS and we paid nearly the asking price for both - so what do I know?Incidently, especially if Carlt or anybody else interested happens along - does anyone have any info. (up to date if poss.) on Star class Ricky Fournax(?)Sorry about multiple posts - I do have a problem with the site as I can almost never link to the site first time it often takes several goes before it loads up . This is what happened this time, when I clicked 'add reply' the 'unable to open page' box appeared.I resent several times until at last it appeared to send. I have a reasonably 'cocky' computer on a fast broadband connection using FIREFOX. Sometimes there is also a box which asks me if I want to connect to a page containing Postdata - I always say yes as it is the only way to get on the site. Sorry to be a pain.

Further to the two posts above and hopefully continuing the original thread rather than inflameing class war, there is surely a much wider point regarding 'self employment'. By deliberately or otherwise avoiding the costs of employing staff, BH has effectively 'saved' himself between 15 and 20%( employers NI, pension provision, down time, health and safety etc.) of his labour costs and thereby has enhanced his profits. Further more, why do the majority of respondents on this thread have sympathy with BH when avoidance of his responsibilities reduces the funding available for the public goods (like canal restoration?), which despite the best efforts of the majority of the politicians make this country a great place to be. It has been noted that a new workshop is in the process of being built. This was started under the previous regime and I speculate that it has not progressed because the builder has not been paid sufficiently promptly. It is also likely the the builder is a creditor and has 'missed out'. Perhaps we should all save our sympathy for him (or her) as it is alleged that BH has not 'lost out' and is in the process of developing a large new marina and factories overseas. I actually do have some sympathy for any one in this situation as for the last nearly 40 years I have suffered the vagaries of the construction industry, some of of the time being 'on the lump' and others losing out when major clients go bust overnight. Before anyone comments it is all my fault!!! - I could have been a 'city boy' (or a city grumpy old man) I shall now hibernate and wait for the incoming!!!!

Around the gunnels as in below the gunnels? Black the lot. Smarter and more practical. If it's cabinsides, pretty sure that's been covered on here by people who really know (but couldn't begin to find it for you, sorry, but have you tried searching the forum?)

Graceful, yes. I wasn't saying graceful ...

http://www.bream.org/fishclass/index.html

It's true, I've often thought that anyone who thinks an E-Type is sexy has obviously never seen a seventy foot working boat, preferably empty and uncovered...

Ever since I got rid of my TV at home they've been threatening to come round but they've never turned up yet. What I want to know, all you electrical types, is can detector vans really work? I can see how it would be easy to pick up if someone/something was transmitting, but how can they tell if a signal is being RECEIVED? Is it all a big bluff?

I think the price is now down to 110k on Apolloduck. I saw Dover earlier this week in Little Venice and it is looking a bit sorry for itself. In particular the lairy cloths have faded to a sort of pale purple colour. Trouble is at that sort of price people who like the interior are going to want a bespoke boat, and not the responsibility of a 70 year old hull; people who like old boats will hate the interior. I remember thinking when I watched it that it was so much overkill.