Ailsa Craig Rfr4

[NorthwichTrader]

A friend of mine was showing me round his Ailsa Craig engine today, and I noticed it had oiler pots on the rocker covers. Should these have wicks in them, as does the kelvin engines, or are they just for an initial oiling prime? It seemed unlikely to me that these egg-cup sized pots were just for a one-off prime?

Also, he was saying there were hot start sticks on the end of a screw in 'valve'...can you still obtain these 'things' you light?

Many thanks, in advance...I can ask him more questions, if required, I just thought I'd start the ball rolling with this!

[billh]

A friend of mine was showing me round his Ailsa Craig engine today, and I noticed it had oiler pots on the rocker covers. Should these have wicks in them, as does the kelvin engines, or are they just for an initial oiling prime? It seemed unlikely to me that these egg-cup sized pots were just for a one-off prime?

Also, he was saying there were hot start sticks on the end of a screw in 'valve'...can you still obtain these 'things' you light?

Many thanks, in advance...I can ask him more questions, if required, I just thought I'd start the ball rolling with this!

The things you set fire to can be bought, I think, but you can make them yourself- did it about twenty years ago for our Ailsa craig RF2 loco engines. Rolled up blotting paper soaked in erm, erm, something solution ( might be saltpetre?) Leave to dry out and keep in a tin, they last for years. Starting method, take the "valves" out, insert the rollups, put a match to them, they glow like a cigarette, no flame or explosion, re-insert valves to engine, crank the engine de-compressed, then over compression and away she goes. Eazistart not required!!!

We have 3 derelict RFR4s here- should be possible to get a good one from the 3, 40HP at 1200 rpm and 21/2 to 1 reduction box , a mighty powerful narrowboat engine. (This is not an advert by the way)

Bill

[NorthwichTrader]

The things you set fire to can be bought, I think, but you can make them yourself- did it about twenty years ago for our Ailsa craig RF2 loco engines. Rolled up blotting paper soaked in erm, erm, something solution ( might be saltpetre?) Leave to dry out and keep in a tin, they last for years. Starting method, take the "valves" out, insert the rollups, put a match to them, they glow like a cigarette, no flame or explosion, re-insert valves to engine, crank the engine de-compressed, then over compression and away she goes. Eazistart not required!!!

We have 3 derelict RFR4s here- should be possible to get a good one from the 3, 40HP at 1200 rpm and 21/2 to 1 reduction box , a mighty powerful narrowboat engine. (This is not an advert by the way)

Bill

Thanks, Bill, I'll pass the info. on! Do you know anything about the oiling pots on the rocker covers?

Is there any pumped oil to the rockers and valves, or are they dependant upon those oiler pots alone, as per the kelvin?

[Timleech]

Self-igniting 'cigarettes' are also available, I think the brand is Zundfix. They are made in more than one diameter.

 

Tim

 

Edit to add link to a source

Edited August 6, 2013 by Timleech

[billh]

Thanks, Bill, I'll pass the info. on! Do you know anything about the oiling pots on the rocker covers?

Is there any pumped oil to the rockers and valves, or are they dependant upon those oiler pots alone, as per the kelvin?

The RF2s don't have the oilers, but they are classed as "Industrial " engines, they do have an oil feed from the pump, IIRC the feed is up one of the rocker shaft stands/bearings and along the hollow shaft and out through holes at each rocker. I will check on the RFR4s , the air intakes are part of the rocker cover castings so it could be the oilers are for priming the inlet valves and cylinders like on some Listers- increase the compression a bit for a cold start. The de-compressor lever on the front of the rocker cover also provides an "over compression" position for starting as well- return it to vertical as soon as it's running.

Bill

[by'eck]

Prompts me to ask did any older marine diesels have cartridge start as used with Field Marshall tractor engines?

 

They also had lighted wick start assistance I believe.

[Timleech]

Prompts me to ask did any older marine diesels have cartridge start as used with Field Marshall tractor engines?

 

They also had lighted wick start assistance I believe.

 

Lots of engines used the wick or cigarette system, precursors of glow plugs really.

Kelvins (T series) used a 'HANSA' starter, which uses a strip of celluloid film, one cylinder head specially adapted, the rapid burning of the film creates pressure to push the piston down.

 

Tim

[johnthebridge]

Self-igniting 'cigarettes' are also available, I think the brand is Zundfix. They are made in more than one diameter.

 

Tim

 

Edit to add link to a source

 

Unless they've stopped trading, J and R Starbuck, Gravesend. Real Aladdin's cave of boat bits you may have felt had been discontinued, including Zundfix starters. They might be computerised now, but I doubt it...

Edited August 7, 2013 by johnthebridge

[Timleech]

 

Unless they've stopped trading, J and R Starbuck, Gravesend. Real Aladdin's cave of boat bits you may have felt had been discontinued, including Zundfix starters. They might be computerised now, but I doubt it...

 

Well they do have a basic web presence

 

Tim

[madcat]

Saltpetre and blotting paper roll ups, started Cuddington just fine in the days we were still at Ellesmere Port.

[XAlan W]

Prompts me to ask did any older marine diesels have cartridge start as used with Field Marshall tractor engines?

 

They also had lighted wick start assistance I believe.

The Seffle I had in Lily had a screw in plug to take a Fag paper insert. I never used it as it also had a glow plug type device which heated via battery voltage there was also a plug that could be heated by blowlamp,gas torch etc. Was also fitted with a bleed off of compression when running to charge an air bottle for compressed air/compression starting

[NorthwichTrader]

Self-igniting 'cigarettes' are also available, I think the brand is Zundfix. They are made in more than one diameter.

 

Tim

 

Edit to add link to a source

Thanks, Tim, really appreciated! He was so pleased to be given this information, he'd all but given up himself!

The RF2s don't have the oilers, but they are classed as "Industrial " engines, they do have an oil feed from the pump, IIRC the feed is up one of the rocker shaft stands/bearings and along the hollow shaft and out through holes at each rocker. I will check on the RFR4s , the air intakes are part of the rocker cover castings so it could be the oilers are for priming the inlet valves and cylinders like on some Listers- increase the compression a bit for a cold start. The de-compressor lever on the front of the rocker cover also provides an "over compression" position for starting as well- return it to vertical as soon as it's running.

Bill

Really appreciated, thanks again, Bill!

Thanks also to madcat, Alan, and JohnTB, all helpful stuff! Cheers!

[billh]

Thanks, Bill, I'll pass the info. on! Do you know anything about the oiling pots on the rocker covers?

Is there any pumped oil to the rockers and valves, or are they dependant upon those oiler pots alone, as per the kelvin?

Had a look at an RFR4 today, the oil cups are definitely into the air intake manifold, which is part of the rocker cover, so they are for cold starting , not lubricating the rockers. I would imagine a lot of smoke for a few minutes while the oil from these priming cups is burnt off! No wicks required . I would not fill these cups as that may cause excessive compression or even damage, perhaps about half full?

[NorthwichTrader]

Had a look at an RFR4 today, the oil cups are definitely into the air intake manifold, which is part of the rocker cover, so they are for cold starting , not lubricating the rockers. I would imagine a lot of smoke for a few minutes while the oil from these priming cups is burnt off! No wicks required . I would not fill these cups as that may cause excessive compression or even damage, perhaps about half full?

That's fantastic, many thanks for your help, Bill! I'm still SO impressed with the knowledge that can be accessed via this forum!

Have a good weekend,

Stuart

[Timleech]

That's fantastic, many thanks for your help, Bill! I'm still SO impressed with the knowledge that can be accessed via this forum!

Have a good weekend,

Stuart

 

While it pays to be cautious, engines that I have known with priming cups have had the cup sized to give the 'right' amount for cold starting, maybe half full if it's less cold.

 

Tim

[NorthwichTrader]

 

While it pays to be cautious, engines that I have known with priming cups have had the cup sized to give the 'right' amount for cold starting, maybe half full if it's less cold.

 

Tim

Cheers, Tim,

Top feedback all round!

Have a good evening all!

Best regards,

Stuart