Final decision on my solar panels and controller

[DeanS]

After some lengthy threads and some fantastic help from many, I plan to purchase the following for my boat...in the next few days.

 

4 x 230Watt Navitron panels , and a controller from Bimble (60A MPPT)

 

Before I place the orders (nervously),

does anyone , know of any legal impediment, why these 2 should not be legally purchased for my use.

 

The plan is to wire 2 panels in series....another 2 panels in series, and then connect them to the controller in parallel. (The controller cant do all 4 in series). Lastly, would I need to fit diodes at all, and should I start another thread on how you do that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Justme]

No dont start another thread. It would help people if all the info was in one place.

 

You prob wont need diodes any way as your panels will most likely be all at the same angle, in a single height row so its unlikely that one string would be shaded & the other not.

 

Also budget for the £15 to £30 duty charge plus UK VAT (on purchase costs plus del costs plus import duty) plus importers fees of about £10.

 

You may or may not get hit for them but best to be prepared.

[Paul C]

Don't forget you'll also need:

 

cables (with the MC4 connector (check the solar panels have this style of connector first))

other cables from controller to battery

inline fuse of the correct rating (you want them connected to the battery through the fuse, indepenent of your isolator switch)

cable clips, ties etc

mounting brackets + bolts (or are you going to tilt them, and if so how?)

 

and probably a few more bits & pieces

[smileypete]

Have you read all todays posts on the other thread? The blurb for the 60A MPPT on Bimble Solar says:

 

'Recommended Battery Type: Sealed Lead-Acid Batteries, AGM or Gel'

 

http://www.mppsolar.com/Photovoltaics/MPPT%20SCC-2.pdf

 

I'd rather go for a couple of 30A Tracer MPPTs and put a couple of panels on each one.

 

Means more cabling but other people on here already have them and seem to be happy with them, and there's a bit of redundancy if one breaks down. They should play OK together if charging the same batts to the same voltage settings, can't see why not, maybe the supplier could advise.

 

Also theres now someone selling the Yingli 245W panels on Ebay for £160 delivered so they're not about to disappear. Maybe the Ebay seller would do a deal for 4 like free del, if Navitron go out of stock.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yingli-Solar-245W-Solar-Panel-solar-panels-MCS-/161004204442

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited April 28, 2013 by smileypete

[Biggles]

It also says

 

NOTE: Before purchase please ensure your PV array will generate AT LEAST 40VDC

 

^{Although your panels will in theory be able to do this, in practice if the light is not good enough you won't get to 40v}

 

^{I'd be inclined to go with the Tracer range. I did and would again.}

 

^{​My 37v panels wired in parallel seldom make anywhere near 37v}

 

^{Also says will shut down in low light.}

[DeanS]

my search continues

[Justme]

You seem to be looking for the perfect system designed by a committee.

 

You cant please all the people all the time.

 

To get the best your budget will just about pay for the controller with no panels or other required items.

 

You have got to compromise somewhere.

[Justme]

For the bats I would use FLA (Flooded Lead Acid).

 

You can charge them harder, top them up, check the SG levels.

 

They are still the most cost effective type currently available.

 

Sealed, AGM & gel need very careful charging as you cant maintain them.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Justme

[Biggles]

Actually I was wrong in a way, my panels will make 37v but not when connected to anything accept a multimeter.

 

For a budget price the Tracer units seem to fare well, in that I've not hear one person slag them yet which has to be somewhat of a record for a product on this forum. OK, they don't currently have fancy data logging but the basic meter that is available does give you plenty of information to obsess about at first until you lose interest because you know they are working.

 

One UK supplier said a better meter is on its way which no doubt I will buy, read obsessively for a few weeks then forget about.

[DeanS]

Nope. I'm just trying to buy the best I can for my budget, that works. It seems if you buy less than 500W solar, it's simple, but when you go higher, the costs impact on choice of equipment drastically.

 

 

You seem to be looking for the perfect system designed by a committee.

[smileypete]

I don't think it's that hard really:

 

1. Buy a panel or two and a Tracer MPPT etc...

2. See how it goes...

3. Rinse, repeat?

 

The above should do fine for 80% of boaters. What about the other 20%? Probably people who want something really modest, or a 24V bank that might work out a little cheaper with PWM, or OTOH have a huge 48V batt bank.

 

There are other decent MPPT controllers around, but the Tracer ones have some flexibility but not a gajillion settings which would overwhelm most people.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited April 29, 2013 by smileypete

[Biggles]

Nope. I'm just trying to buy the best I can for my budget, that works. It seems if you buy less than 500W solar, it's simple, but when you go higher, the costs impact on choice of equipment drastically.

 

Dean I know I don't live aboard with a power hungry family but my 500w with an Tracer MPPT 40amp gives me all I could really expect of solar in this country at a sensible price point. I have a massive 1200ah battery bank and even in winter with no draw on it for a few days I get back to 100% from mid 80%.

 

As I recall you have much less battery so I suspect 500w of solar will get you batteries topped up pretty well.

 

Fortunately I'm not on a budget but still at this time would not add more solar power. In this country on a boat I think you have to consider it as at least a secondary if not 3rd source of power.

 

If you can be bothered to make them moving and track the sun you will probably get some 20-30% more power a day and that will be pretty much for free. I didn't but I know some that do and its really quite a revelation how much better it is.

[DeanS]

I have looked for a Tracer controller that can do 60A/80A at a reasonable price, but I cant find one.

I've come up with this plan.

 

Each 230 Watt Nivitron panel ....with it's own 20A MPPT controller. These cheap ones. UK based. Free delivery.

 

This will cost me £240 for 4x20A = 80A of mppt controller.

This will cost me £552 for 920W of solar panels.

This will be a total cost of £792 .

 

MY HUMBLE QUESTION IS....CAN I CONNECT 4 MPPT CONTROLLERS TO A BANK OF BATTERIES.

[blodger]

I think those controller are MPW charging with an element of MPPT(for when its dark).

 

If you are going MPW you can get em cheaper/as good IMHO

[smileypete]

If you bought a couple of 30A Tracer MPPTs from Bimble, it's not that much more than buying the 60A MPPT you were thinking of. And with the 60A MPPT there was a chance of paying some duty in which case it'd work out about the same.

 

A lot of the cheap MPPTs are fake and in reality just PWMs labelled as MPPT. A look at the max input voltage tells all, the decent MPPTs have something like 100 or 150V.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited April 29, 2013 by smileypete

[DeanS]

If you bought a couple of 30A Tracer MPPTs from Bimble, it's not that much more than buying the 60A MPPT you were thinking of. And with the 60A MPPT there was a chance of paying some duty in which case it'd work out about the same.

 

A lot of the cheap MPPTs are fake and in reality just PWMs labelled as MPPT. A look at the max input voltage tells all, the decent MPPTs have something like 100 or 150V.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

 

Would the 30A Bimble mppt controller handle the input from 2 x 230W Navitron panels.?

If I bought 2 x 30A Bimble mppt controllers, could I connect them both to the same battery bank?

[smileypete]

Yes, if the 2x235W panels were perfectly tilted towards full sun theoretically the controller would be able to go over 30 amps into fairly flat batts, in reality it should limit itself to about 30A, it'd be really crap design if it didn't. Most times the panels won't reach max theoretical output as they'll be flat on the roof, only tilted a bit, or lose a bit of output due to heat, or the batts will have a higher state of charge.

 

As far as connecting them both to one bank I don't see why not if there is pair of panels on each controller with their own wiring separate from the other pair, you could ask Bimble, and see what they say about 2x235W on each one too. I'd expect it's not uncommon for people to expand their solar and add another controller alongside an existing one.

 

The 30A Tracers are nice in that it looks like they have the same case and heatsinking as the 40A version, which would help them run a little cooler. They also don't rely on a fan which is another thing to make noise or go wrong or allow stuff to get through the vent holes into the case.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited April 29, 2013 by smileypete

[DeanS]

Could someone confirm whether THIS 60A MPPT controller would handle one of the following panel combinations.

 

5 x 180Watt Navitron panels (900W)

4 x 230Watt Navitron panels (920W)

3 x 275Watt Navitron panels (825W) - quite large panels...would fit them on 3 storage top boxes on widebeam roof)

 

I am happy with either combination. (the first 2 options may exceed the controller amps slightly)

 

I believe this may be a better solution than using the 2 x 30A controllers from Bimble.

I'm a little uncertain on the panel/controller voltage compatabilities. I'm assuming this controller will be happy with Navitron panels.

 

If someone (like Pete) could confirm for me, I'll be placing an order soon.

[Christianonthecut]

I know morningstar recommend a max PV array of 800 watts with there 60amp controller... you can probably go higher in the UK but for nearly 1KW's worth of panels wouldn't an 80amp controller be a better choice?

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Christianonthecut

[DeanS]

I know morningstar recommend a max PV array of 800 watts with there 60amp controller... you can probably go higher in the UK but for nearly 1KW's worth of panels wouldn't an 80amp controller be a better choice?

 

 

The 3 x 275W are close to that. (825W)

I'm happy with 800W , so could even do 4x180W (720).

It's doubtful those panels will operate at full power though?

I cant seem to find an 80A controller at a decent price. I'm struggling to pay £333 for the 60A .

[smileypete]

The one linked to is a decent MPPT but is supplied from Asia, so there's a risk of paying duty and collection fees on top.

 

I'd still go with 2x30A Tracer MPPTs, UK supplied, with 2 panels connected to each. Bit of extra wiring but there's advantages too.

 

And I'd still recommend starting with one 30A Tracer and ~500W of panels and seeing how it goes.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Christianonthecut]

I'm kind of in the same baot as you Dean, struggling to get my head round it all. But from what I understand yes it is OK to fit a larger array as the controller will still be able to handle it espcially as it's unlikely you'll ever see the full 800watts from the panels in the UK.

 

I bought this today, which will handle the 500watt worth of panels I intend to buy...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50A-mppt-solar-charge-controller-regulator-programmable-12v-24v-48v-LCD-/320756044512?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D7333849207450017003%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D320756044512%26#ht_3961wt_1018

 

They do an 80a version, but it's over £400 with the shipping.

 

I nearly went crazy and bought a £680 96amp Midnite Classic controller, but then remembered that i have a budget to (try) stick to.

 

I'm buying cable, crimping pliers and MC4 connectors at present. Breakers to buy next then I can sit back and wait for it all to arrive.

 

Ebay auction for panels finishes in a couple of days so will hopefull land abargain there.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Christianonthecut

[DeanS]

The one linked to is a decent MPPT but is supplied from Asia, so there's a risk of paying duty and collection fees on top.

 

I'd still go with 2x30A Tracer MPPTs, UK supplied, with 2 panels connected to each. Bit of extra wiring but there's advantages too.

 

And I'd still recommend starting with one 30A Tracer and ~500W of panels and seeing how it goes.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Hi Pete.

So you would recommend this from Bimble and 2 x 230Watts from Navitron. ..and if it works, and I need more, buy the exact same again?

 

I'm trying to keep my brain from exploding.

[DeanS]

I am tempted to go for this option.

 

Option X

 

This 80A mppt controller. - £442 with shipping.

4 x 180Watt panels - for now - £432 (Novatron)

Buy a 5th 180W panel later.

 

That would give me 900W , and a 80A controller.

 

Option Y

 

I am also tempted to go for 1 x 30A controller from Bimble, and 2x230W panels from Novatron - total £394.and if it works, double that....which would give me 920W and 2 x 30A controllers.

ok....%^&*()*&^%&*()_(*&^%&*()

 

 

I AM GOING WITH PETES SUGGESTION OF 1 X 30AMP TRACER AND 2 X 230W PANELS, and if it works, I'll get the same again.

 

THANKS PETE, AND EVERYONE.

 

LET'S ALL GET ON WITH OUR BOATING NOW

[ditchcrawler]

I am tempted to go for this option.

 

Option X

 

This 80A mppt controller. - £442 with shipping.

4 x 180Watt panels - for now - £432 (Novatron)

Buy a 5th 180W panel later.

 

That would give me 900W , and a 80A controller.

 

Option Y

 

I am also tempted to go for 1 x 30A controller from Bimble, and 2x230W panels from Novatron - total £394.and if it works, double that....which would give me 920W and 2 x 30A controllers.

 

ok....%^&*()*&^%&*()_(*&^%&*()

 

 

I AM GOING WITH PETES SUGGESTION OF 1 X 30AMP TRACER AND 2 X 230W PANELS, and if it works, I'll get the same again.

 

THANKS PETE, AND EVERYONE.

 

LET'S ALL GET ON WITH OUR BOATING NOW

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