Smoking Sterling Pro Combi S Inverter Charger :(

[Richard10002]

Whilst charging at 70A this morning, after about 25 mins, smoke started coming out of the AC end of the unit. I think the fan was running at the time. Turned the unit off, and then the mains supply, (which was supplied by a generator).

 

I think this is the longest the unit has remained in its 1st phase of constant high current, and I am reasonably sure it must be related to either high power, or the fan.

 

I ran the engine for a while to charge the batteries then took a chance and started the generator and inverter charger again.

 

This time, it started up delivering only around 40A for only a few minutes, before going into what I think is called absorption phase for an hour, then into float mode at about 6A. All was fine, and there was no smoking, nor was there any fan running, so it seems to work OK apart from when it's delivering a high current for a while, and the fan is running.

 

Emailed Sterling and he replied:

 

"could be the caps we *would need to see it, but its hard to send they in post etc , we can supply a module for the unit which is the total internal electronic guts which can be easily replaced at about £ 150"

 

When he says "caps", could he mean capacitors?

 

Any ideas on what the problem might be? Would I cause any damage if I open it up to see what's burnt? I'm guessing not if Sterling are willing to send something that needs me to fit it.

 

If it is capacitors, would a local automotive electrician be able to replace them for a few quid? Ditto the fan etc....

 

Here's hoping!

 

Richard

 

BTW out of warranty/guarantee.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Richard10002

[Arthur Brown]

Well if Sterling say caps they mean capacitors! Yes anyone with the right skills could get new caps and put them in BUT whether they can get the right caps is another matter -these are usually rather special caps. Sterling are most unlikely to send out parts that need soldering as too few people are really competent to do sub board level repairs.

 

IMO I'd check that a spare charger of some sort was available, accept Sterling's offer of a replacement board fit and test it and check the fan. I may also consider sending the suspect board back to Sterling for repair.

[Justme]

Turn off, totally isolate from all inputs & outputs then open her up. Look for signs of over heating & then go from there.

 

 

Dint someone recently post about a place to get inverter / chargers repaired?

[Roger Crown]

Hi Richard

Isolate as above ( justme)

Open it up, if it is electrolytic capacitors that have failed they usually can be spotted by bulging or burst end caps. They are usually printed with the type and value and should be able to be sourced from RS components. It is fairly easy job for someone to replace them for you. Worth a try, capacitors are usually pence rather than the £150 for a replacement board.

 

regards

Roger

[Richard10002]

That settles it. It's coming off tomorrow for opening up, and I'll fit the 25A charger that came with the boat. Given that it continued charging fine at 40A after the smoking, I'm hoping it will be something simple like the fan.

[Chalky]

Leave it un connected for a long time before you open it up - days. Then carefully measure the voltage across the capacitors with a meter. Capacitors can hold a charge for a long time and can hurt / be fatal. Probability is that it is a capacitor however if you've not got an electronics background don't touch.

 

ps - I'm being pessimistic about the charge retention time, however if you've not dealt with this type of electronics before you need to be wary.

[Canal Rat]

You could discharge the caps with a resistor but that would involve getting the board out and like Chalky said, if you don't know electronics leave well alone, static and all that .....

Good luck

[Bob-18]

Caps do fail, as do a few other things. Those with an experienced nose can often tell you what has failed just by the smell.

If you do take the lid off (follow the advice about leaving it disconnected for a good time) have a look round for obvious charred/burnt/blackend areas or items. Its not unknown for a "non-vital" component to fail and the rest of the equipment to carry on working "nearly OK" for some time before coming out in sympathy.

 

A couple of questions:

Were you plugged into a shore line when this happened, or were you running off the engine (I think you were on a shore line, but...)

Did you notice if the AC output was OK when this happened? (Don't bother if you didn't notice as panic in the face of smoke is a normal human action)

 

I would be wary about trying to use this unit until I had an idea as to what had failed, and certainly if yo do use it DO NOT leave it running when you aren't around.

 

Also, make sure there are no stray wires dangling onto live (battery) connections - it might just be as simple as dust getting hot, caused by an overload due to a stray wire in the wrong place. And make sure that all battery and high current connections are properly tightened.

[Richard10002]

Opened it up yesterday and saw no evidence of charring, or burning. The caps are hidden behind some big heat sinks with a circuit board above them, so no way to get at them without further dismantling.

 

Connected it back up this morning and it started charging at 70A, then there was a pop, and smoke from the caps..... So that's the answer.

 

The caps are about 5cm high, and 2cm diameter, and seem to fit fairly flush to the board. They are black and Jamicon 50v 15000uF is written up the sides. Could they be snap in types, rather than soldered? Could something else have caused them to pop, or are they most likely to pop on their own?

 

My choice is to send Sterling the best part of £200, or see if ican sort out a repair...

 

Any suggestions welcomed.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

 

Richard

[Arthur Brown]

50v 15000uF caps should be easy to find, BUT the proper ones should be ultra low ESR and ESL for HF use. They will be found in some catalogues but only by careful looking, the wrong (ie the usual Chinese stuff -cheap and easy to find) caps will probably last only seconds.

 

With switched mode kit it may well be better to send it to the maker's approved repairer as they should have the right spare parts.

[Richard10002]

Too good to be true!

 

Asked Sterling to firm up the price of the module and "Tamara" tells me they usually charge £500+VAT plus £8 postage to Manchester... So that's no longer an option!

 

I'll have it to bits and see what the caps look like. I'd be surprised if they can't be sourced, but I'm not sure I'd recognise a bad connection unless it was obviously charred.

 

Not sure if that's my last dalliance with Sterling, but it's not been a particularly good experience, from purchase in November to failure in June.

[Grace and Favour]

Too good to be true!

 

Asked Sterling to firm up the price of the module and "Tamara" tells me they usually charge £500+VAT plus £8 postage to Manchester... So that's no longer an option!

 

I'll have it to bits and see what the caps look like. I'd be surprised if they can't be sourced, but I'm not sure I'd recognise a bad connection unless it was obviously charred.

 

Not sure if that's my last dalliance with Sterling, but it's not been a particularly good experience, from purchase in November to failure in June.

 

Errrrr - If it was new(?) in November, and u/s in June . . . under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act I believe Sterling should repair, or replace, FOC

Edited June 25, 2012 by Grace & Favour

[Slim]

Turn off, totally isolate from all inputs & outputs then open her up. Look for signs of over heating & then go from there.

 

 

Dint someone recently post about a place to get inverter / chargers repaired?

 

 

Yes, me. Details are:-

 

 

Sellweb Ltd

Unit 11

Tame Valley Business Centre

Wilnecote

Tamworth

Staffs

B77 5BY

 

01827281976

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frank

[Richard10002]

Errrrr - If it was new(?) in November, and u/s in June . . . under the terms of the Sales of Goods Act I believe Sterling should repair, or replace, FOC

 

It was a refurbished unit with only a 7 day warranty. Sale of Goods Act requires me to prove it was faulty when purchased if it fails after 6 months. I don't fancy my day in court on that one, and im definitely not frightened of a day in court. In this instant i'm leaning towards just letting it leave a sour taste. Having said that, if I can make the time, I might fire off a letter and see how he responds.

 

I was hoping they would make the honourable offer, but so far they haven't.

[Slim]

As a guide the company I referred to in my earlier post charged me £168 to repair my mastervolt inverter. The repair came with a 12 month guarantee

 

 

 

 

Frank

Edited June 25, 2012 by Slim

[larkshall]

Yes, me. Details are:-

 

 

Sellweb Ltd

Unit 11

Tame Valley Business Centre

Wilnecote

Tamworth

Staffs

B77 5BY

 

01827281976

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frank

 

I think this contact should be added somewhere it can be found by all. I had cause to use them for a commercial inverter, excellent service and returned within 5 working days. The cost was a third of what the German manufacturer quoted.

[Richard10002]

Yes, me. Details are:-

 

 

Sellweb Ltd

Unit 11

Tame Valley Business Centre

Wilnecote

Tamworth

Staffs

B77 5BY

 

01827281976

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frank

 

Email sent.

 

Thanks

[bowten]

I think this contact should be added somewhere it can be found by all. I had cause to use them for a commercial inverter, excellent service and returned within 5 working days. The cost was a third of what the German manufacturer quoted.

I agree,good idea.

[Richard10002]

It was a refurbished unit with only a 7 day warranty. Sale of Goods Act requires me to prove it was faulty when purchased if it fails after 6 months. I don't fancy my day in court on that one, and im definitely not frightened of a day in court. In this instant i'm leaning towards just letting it leave a sour taste. Having said that, if I can make the time, I might fire off a letter and see how he responds.

 

I was hoping they would make the honourable offer, but so far they haven't.

 

Written to Sterling quoting Sale of Goods Act 1979..... Fitness for purpose, and last for a reasonable time. We'll see what happens.

[Richard10002]

Written to Sterling quoting Sale of Goods Act 1979..... Fitness for purpose, and last for a reasonable time. We'll see what happens.

 

RESULT!! I think

 

Got a call at 9am Tues after emailing the letter at about 11pm Mon. Sterling offered to sell me the "module" for £159.60 inc. VAT and postage. I agreed, even though I could have pushed things further, and it arrived today. Pretty sure I've got a 2 year guarantee on the module.

 

Fitted it to the unit this evening, and will fit the unit to the boat tomorrow.... Fingers crossed.

 

A few differences between the original unit and the new one - I wonder if these are improvements?

 

A difference i can describe is: The capacitors on the original were Jamicon 15000uf 50v. The capacitors on the replacement are RIFA 22000uF 25v. They look soldered on both units.

 

Another difference is a yellow box type thing replaced by a Song Chuan 30A relay.

__________________

Narrowboating From Stretford!!

[Richard10002]

Seems to be working OK. Did a few runs with the batteries pretty well charged. Started at around 40A and then dwindled down until it switched to float voltage. Then I let the batteries discharge to around 12.2V after a few hours rest. Started it up this morning, and it ran at about 70A for about 30 second in the bulk phase, before switching to absorption for an hour, then onto float.

 

So far so good for £160 and no real hassle.

 

The question now is.... Do I throw the old module away, or find and fit a couple of caps, or leave it lying around until I decide it's not worth keeping.