Planning Permission

[Neil.A]

Ok It looks like through my own ignorance I have fallen foul of this.

Before I purchased my narrowboat I rang BW. I told them that I had sold my house and was intending to buy a boat to live on, but only if I could get a mooring on the Beeston cut. If not I would buy a flat or small house outright or with a very small mortgage. I was told that I could have a mooring and as far as I was concerned that was that and here I am.

BW has now given me notice that my mooring is to close and I have no argument, as I should not be living on my boat, as there is no planning permission.

At the time of enquiry should BW have told me? I can find no reference in the "LONG TERM MOORINGS

TERMS AND CONDITIONS" nor in the "APPLICATION FOR A

LONG TERM MOORING PERMIT". In fact I'm buggered If I can find any reference in their literature anywhere.

Anyone...?

 

Pissed off, of Beeston.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Neil.A

[carlt]

Ok It looks like through my own ignorance I have fallen foul of this.

Before I purchased my narrowboat I rang BW. I told them that I had sold my house and was intending to buy a boat to live on, but only if I could get a mooring on the Beeston cut. If not I would buy a flat or small house outright or with a very small mortgage. I was told that I could have a mooring and as far as I was concerned that was that and here I am.

BW has now given me notice that my mooring is to close and I have no argument, as I should not be living on my boat, as there is no planning permission.

At the time of enquiry should BW have told me? I can find no reference in the "LONG TERM MOORINGS

TERMS AND CONDITIONS" nor in the "APPLICATION FOR A

LONG TERM MOORING PERMIT". In fact I'm buggered If I can find any reference in their literature anywhere.

Anyone...?

 

Pissed off, of Beeston.

Article 8 of the human rights act overrides planning permission. Courts have ruled against councils attempting to evict travellers because, despite contravening planning laws, they have established a home at that site. If BW have allowed people to live at that site, unhindered, for long enough for it to be established as a home then it is them who have contravened the planning laws, not you.

[Neil.A]

Come on,. stick yer vote in, I cant be the only daft sod on here.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Neil.A

[mayalld]

Come on,. stick yer vote in, I cant be the only daft sod on here.

 

Why do you believe that it is BW's responsibility to act as an advisor in this way?

[Gary Stacey]

Wasnt there a recent case where a load of liveaboard boaters somewhere on the system faced eviction because the locals didnt like the boats spoiling their view? When it came to it was decided that living aboard their boats had nothing to do with planning permission? It may have been in towpath talk a few months back

Edited August 1, 2007 by Gary Stacey

[mayalld]

Wasnt there a recent case where a load of liveaboard boaters somewhere on the system faced eviction because the locals didnt like the boats spoiling their view? When it came to it was decided that living aboard their boats had nothing to do with planning permission? It may have been in towpath talk a few months back

 

So, given that it is a grey area legally, it seems to me that it would be foolish in the extreme for BW to offer advice.

[Gary Stacey]

Just for interest how long can I spend on my boat before I am classed as living on it? I know people who spend 6 days a week in the same hotel for work, does that mean they are living in the hotel? A friend of mine has a caravan at the coast which he is not allowed to visit for two weeks of the year, he can spend as much time as he likes the rest of the year their without it being classed as residential!

 

Maybe a little of topic but perhaps food for thought. When BW tell you that a mooring is/is not residential it is all open to interpretation. I cant see a problem with living on a boat where ever you have it moored, whats the difference?

[ChrisPy]

true residential moorings need planning permission, you pay council tax, etc.

 

beats me why people even ask. just do it. SHHHHH !!!

 

who is checking if you are a resident or just a regular occupant?

[Neil.A]

true residential moorings need planning permission, you pay council tax, etc.

 

beats me why people even ask. just do it. SHHHHH !!!

 

who is checking if you are a resident or just a regular occupant?

We wrote to BW. (reference their intention to close our moorings) We all have jobs locally, registerd with doctors, dentists, the hospital, nursery, etc. Their argument is that we should not be using the boats as our sole residence as there are no residential moorings on Beeston Roadside, nor is there any planning permission for residential moorings.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Neil.A

[Alastair]

Well, I agree with Chris. Keep quiet.

 

BW are not a local authority, and they don't have a duty to provide housing. If you choose to live on a boat, this is one of the risks you face.

 

It's not right, it's hell, and makes life very uncertain.

[carlt]

Well, I agree with Chris. Keep quiet.

 

BW are not a local authority, and they don't have a duty to provide housing. If you choose to live on a boat, this is one of the risks you face.

 

It's not right, it's hell, and makes life very uncertain.

But if they come to evict you from your home and use this to reinforce their case, despite having condoned you living there until it doesn't suit them, it rather shows them up for what they are.

[John Orentas]

I quite like the idea of these polls, done correctly I am sure they can be very useful and informative. I do however think that they could be better thought out than this one.

 

Who is invited to vote.

What is the ultimate aim.

It all looks like gobbledygook to me.

[Neil.A]

I quite like the idea of these polls, done correctly I am sure they can be very useful and informative. I do however think that they could be better thought out than this one.

 

Who is invited to vote.

What is the ultimate aim.

It all looks like gobbledygook to me.

John

My point was to give a rough idea just how many people knew exactly what BW's /local authority rules are.

If you like I'll amend it.

[carlt]

John

My point was to give a rough idea just how many people knew exactly what BW's /local authority rules are.

If you like I'll amend it.

no point. John makes no secret of the fact that he doesn't believe anyone should live on their boats.

[Neil.A]

Well, I agree with Chris. Keep quiet.

 

BW are not a local authority, and they don't have a duty to provide housing. If you choose to live on a boat, this is one of the risks you face.

 

It's not right, it's hell, and makes life very uncertain.

 

That is exactly my point. If I had known from the outset that life on a boat would be uncertain, I wouldnt have bothered.

[-Jack-]

I understand the difficulty of getting planning permission for a residential mooring is due to previous misuse of the permission by a few people.

 

If the Council give PP for a residential mooring you obviously become a resident in their area. Now, if your boat should sink they must re-house you.

 

This fact was abused by some folks getting residential PP and then buying and living on a boat due to sink. When sunk they went to the Council saying " We've got no home you need to find me a council house". This was obviously being done on purpose, by a few, to circumvent the difficulty and waiting lists for council housing.

 

The Councils realised that this was occuring, didn't want the housing liability and therefore residential permission became much more difficult.

 

 

As often in life - A minority spoil it for the majority.

[carlt]

I understand the difficulty of getting planning permission for a residential mooring is due to previous misuse of the permission by a few people.

 

If the Council give PP for a residential mooring you obviously become a resident in their area. Now, if your boat should sink they must re-house you.

 

This fact was abused by some folks getting residential PP and then buying and living on a boat due to sink. When sunk they went to the Council saying " We've got no home you need to find me a council house". This was obviously being done on purpose, by a few, to circumvent the difficulty and waiting lists for council housing.

 

The Councils realised that this was occuring, didn't want the housing liability and therefore residential permission became much more difficult.

As often in life - A minority spoil it for the majority.

In over 20 years of boating I have never heard an actual case of this urban (rural?) myth occurring. I have, however, known cases where vulnerably housed people have qualified for housing by the local authority despite having no fixed abode, never mind planning permission.

 

Are you sure you're not thinking of asylum seekers?

[Alastair]

But if they come to evict you from your home and use this to reinforce their case, despite having condoned you living there until it doesn't suit them, it rather shows them up for what they are.

Carl is quite right, I must apologise. I didn't read the OP carefully enough and didn't realise that you made it clear to BW that you would be living aboard from the outset.

 

In this case you are right to be outraged. Do you have any evidence in writing that you told BW you would be living aboard?

[Orphiel]

The myth makes even less sense when you consider the fact that by law if you live on a boat and no place to moor it, you are considered homeless, and that whether a council has a duty to rehouse you depends on 5 tests, none of which is 'we were living on a boat in your area that sank recently.'

 

In fact, if you had a local connection to the area, were in priority need and homeless, you would mostly be eligible for rehousing without going through the tricky buying a boat (with no money, as you are homeless) and waiting for it to sink bit first.

 

Meg

[Neil.A]

Carl is quite right, I must apologise. I didn't read the OP carefully enough and didn't realise that you made it clear to BW that you would be living aboard from the outset.

 

In this case you are right to be outraged. Do you have any evidence in writing that you told BW you would be living aboard?

Unfortunatly not. I didnt reckon on all of this going pear shaped. Well you wouldnt would you? I can understand If I was buying a property abroad and fell foul of the local laws of that country, that would have been my fault for not doing my homework. Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

I took it as red that if I had secured a mooring and paid for it, river license paid for, insurance and boat safety cert obtained, that would be about it and I could carry on with the rest of my life.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Neil.A

[Gary Stacey]

true residential moorings need planning permission, you pay council tax, etc.

 

beats me why people even ask. just do it. SHHHHH !!!

 

who is checking if you are a resident or just a regular occupant?

 

 

Like I said in my comment about a case that appeared (I think) in towpath talk where it was decided that living on a boat had nothing to do with the planning dept?!

[-Jack-]

In over 20 years of boating I have never heard an actual case of this urban (rural?) myth occurring.

 

I know this is not a myth, urban or rural. Many years ago I worked for a Council in the Housing and Building Inspection dept.

 

Have you only been boating 20yrs, still a junior

[Alastair]

Unfortunatly not. I didnt reckon on all of this going pear shaped. Well you wouldnt would you? I can understand If I was buying a property abroad and fell foul of the local laws of that country, that would have been my fault for not doing my homework. Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

I took it as red that if I had secured a mooring and paid for it, river license paid for, insurance and boat safety cert obtained, that would be about it and I could carry on with the rest of my life.

 

I'm a gloomy cynical sod, so I usually plan for everything going wrong. Must be why my hair is prematurely grey.

 

I think you are stuffed, it sounds like BW aren't singling you out, just attacking the online boaters in your area.

 

We live on one of the very very few residential moorings in our area - it has been lived on for over 35 years. We pay council tax etc. I have a written tenancy agreement. Yet I still worry. Thankfully my landlords aren't BW.

[carlt]

I know this is not a myth, urban or rural. Many years ago I worked for a Council in the Housing and Building Inspection dept.

 

Have you only been boating 20yrs, still a junior

If a person is living on a boat, in a caravan, bender or tent and that home is removed from them, planning permission or not, they are entitled to ask the local authority to rehouse them, as long as they didn't intentionally make themselves homeless. This is a right, not a dodge or fiddle as your example implies.

 

I worked with travellers and their housing dilemmas for a county council not so many years ago.

 

Sarcastic comments don't strengthen your argument btw.

Edited August 1, 2007 by carlt

[-Jack-]

If a person is living on a boat, in a caravan, bender or tent and that home is removed from them, planning permission or not, they are entitled to ask the local authority to rehouse them, as long as they didn't intentionally make themselves homeless. This is a right, not a dodge or fiddle as your example implies.

 

Sarcastic comments don't strengthen your argument btw.

 

OK Carl. You are more knowledgeable than me regarding peeps 'rights' and probably you know a lot more than me about this European Court of Human Rights etc. That's no problem, fortunately, I will admit, I am not in a situation needing their assistance or information.

 

Sorry you have no sense of humour Did you not notice I attached a lol to my final comments. It was not sarcastic, I was being a little light hearted. I sincerely aplogise if you feel my comment threatens your security in the community.

 

I have more than double your boating experience - but what the heck as that got to do with it

 

However, next time before abusing someones posting; please, think again.

 

Please feel free to now have the last word. I have finished with this subject.