Diesel - New tax rates

[Machpoint005]

I've always found that staying within the law is the best way to avoid falling foul of it.

But as I wrote on other threads, let's just wait and see what transpires, shall we?

The onus can only be on the consumer after the new regime takes effect, as nobody knows what it will be, yet. You can't be "done" for an offence that did not exist at the time you "committed" it.

 

Ian

 

Edited so it mdae snese

Edited July 27, 2007 by Machpoint005

[twoputtyrats]

ON that thought...

 

 

Can I buy some diesel oh lets say 5000 litres of it @ current rates (but I'll buyit on interest free credit) and let fred bloggs at the boatyard store it for me - oh I don't know in his diesel tank, and then remove it from storage as I need to?

 

would that be legal?

 

Simes.

[SoggyMoggies]

You could be on to something there...

 

Remember when VAT was introduced on fuel bills, wasn't it possible to pay in advance for (IIRC) about a year after the tax came in without paying the tax? Perhaps something similar could be possible here.

[chris w]

You can't be "done" for an offence that did not exist at the time you "committed" it.

 

Ian

 

 

I guess Ian, that's not strictly always true. For example, legally owning a licenced handgun was fine until a few years ago when all handguns were banned. Although there was no offence at the time the handgun was bought, it was, and is, a very serious offence to own one after the legislation came in.

 

To cite a more common example might be some of the retrospective tax laws which seek to close tax loopholes.

 

Chris

[Machpoint005]

I guess Ian, that's not strictly always true. For example, legally owning a licenced handgun was fine until a few years ago when all handguns were banned. Although there was no offence at the time the handgun was bought, it was, and is, a very serious offence to own one after the legislation came in.

Chris

 

The offence is owning the gun after the cut-off date, there was no offence committed when buying it in the first place. There was, IIRC, an amnesty during which previously legally-held guns were handed in. I don't see the relevance to the present subject as no-one is suggesting it will be illegal to possess red diesel after the changes - whatever they may be - have been introduced.

 

Ian

[chris w]

The offence is owning the gun after the cut-off date, there was no offence committed when buying it in the first place. There was, IIRC, an amnesty during which previously legally-held guns were handed in. I don't see the relevance to the present subject as no-one is suggesting it will be illegal to possess red diesel after the changes - whatever they may be - have been introduced.

 

Ian

 

I agree, but the point I was trying to make - albeit clumsily - is the fact that although one may possess a large quantity of red diesel (stored off-site) bought before the tax increase, this is not an absolute guarantee, because of the possibility of retrospective legislation, that one would not still have to pay additional tax on red diesel not actually IN the boat's tank.

 

Chris

[Machpoint005]

I agree, but the point I was trying to make - albeit clumsily - is the fact that although one may possess a large quantity of red diesel (stored off-site) bought before the tax increase, this is not an absolute guarantee, because of the possibility of retrospective legislation, that one would not still have to pay additional tax on red diesel not actually IN the boat's tank.

 

Chris

 

Yes, the point would be how much red (altogether) would constitute a 'reasonable amount'. A year's supply, including what's in the boat?

 

Ian

[Tootles]

Yes, the point would be how much red (altogether) would constitute a 'reasonable amount'. A year's supply, including what's in the boat?

 

Ian

 

I'm pretty sure that if stopped in the first year or so, if the answer given was "this has been in my tank for yonks" will suffice. Some boats have massive fuel tanks, and if you dont run it you dont use it. Look how many boats sit in marinas, and dont stir from one year to the next.

Dave.

[Eastern]

I've enjoyed reading everyones comments on the red diesel. There seems to be a misperception that if you have previously filled your tank with red diesel then the residue of the dye will remain (true) and if you keep filling with red no one will be any wiser.

HMCE test for fuel fraud by taking a sample of fuel - they don't just look in the tank.

Every time you fill with non dyed diesel the concentrations of red dye will deminish, so it ain't rocket science to see if red diesel has been used recently.

OK, you can say that the fuel has been there since November 2008, but that excuse will become harder and harder to be believed.

Anyone who has had their vehicle siezed or dismantled at one of our ports of entry will know that these arn't the guys to mess with.

[Machpoint005]

HMCE test for fuel fraud by taking a sample of fuel - they don't just look in the tank.

Every time you fill with non dyed diesel the concentrations of red dye will deminish, so it ain't rocket science to see if red diesel has been used recently.

OK, you can say that the fuel has been there since November 2008, but that excuse will become harder and harder to be believed.

Anyone who has had their vehicle siezed or dismantled at one of our ports of entry will know that these arn't the guys to mess with.

 

Fair comment, and seems to be based on real knowledge of the way things are. In other words, stay within the law and you're OK. Where have I seen that remark before?....

Ian

[david and julie]

Some boats have massive fuel tanks, and if you dont run it you dont use it. Look how many boats sit in marinas, and dont stir from one year to the next.

Dave.

It used to be the case that vehicles that were only used on private land and didn't go onto the public roads(such as airfields or large factories)could use gas oil. We moor on the Bridgewater which is privately owned, so why shouldn't the same apply there?

 

Especially so if you have a residential mooring on a privately owned marina and never go cruising.

 

There are plenty of people in this situation.

[carlt]

It used to be the case that vehicles that were only used on private land and didn't go onto the public roads(such as airfields or large factories)could use gas oil. We moor on the Bridgewater which is privately owned, so why shouldn't the same apply there?

 

Especially so if you have a residential mooring on a privately owned marina and never go cruising.

 

There are plenty of people in this situation.

Interesting point. Whilst it is true that vehicles used solely on private land are exempt from fuel tax, road fund duties and even the mot test, private properties such as supermarket car parks, unadopted roads and roads on private industrial estates are subject to the same laws as the public highway, if that land is normally used as a road.

 

I think the navigation laws, including the end of the fuel derogation, would apply on private navigations, as well as BW's.

[Christine]

My son has just converted his car - (MG - Diesel something with a Bosch filter) to run on 50% diesel /50% SVO. (Using more SVO in the summer) He has been following the change to legislation as set down here:

 

HMRC

 

I have been following this thread and may have missed the point if SVO's have been discussed.

 

My questions are:

 

1) How well do marinised engines run on Tesco's Finest rapeseed / diesel mix?

2) Would there be savings with SVO @ 54p a litre (cheaper elsewhere I guess) if red diesel is taxed in line with road fuels?

3) Has Jonny Boy read the HMRC right?

4) How do I get 10 3ltr empty plastic oil bottles in my diddy little recycle box?

 

edited for fundamental spelling error

Edited July 31, 2007 by Christine