The Thames - a study in tides

[NB Willawaw]

Spent the weekend on and around the tidal Thames.

Tides always fascinate me - the moon basically pulling masses of water to cover and uncover

land. I have been looking for a good point to pick up and drop off (moorings are difficult on the

tidal stretches) and have found a good temporary stopping off point near Tower Bridge (bottom two

photographs). As you can see, you need to be there at least two hours before low water, unless you want to wait for the next tide.

Road access is good - there is some short term parking and a good access ladder.

 

 

 

 

The above is St.Saviours Dock - apparently thr real Fagin and Bill Sykes of Oliver Twist fame lived around here.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[NB Willawaw]

I just liked this combination of high tech Canada Place and the Greek mythological look.

 

 

 

This is the entrance to Limehouse Basin and the Lee/Regents Canal/BW network.

 

Edited April 16, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[blackrose]

I have been looking for a good point to pick up and drop off (moorings are difficult on the

tidal stretches) and have found a good temporary stopping off point near Tower Bridge (bottom two

photographs). As you can see, you need to be there at least two hours before low water, unless you want to wait for the next tide.

Road access is good - there is some short term parking and a good access ladder.

 

Why not just lock into Limehouse basin?

 

I recently dropped my boat at the Isleworth Draw Dock (London Apprentice). You need to book it with the PLA.

 

The tide takes a long time to go out, but it comes in quite quickly. It's amazing that 40+ miles from the sea you wait for the tide to come in so you can get off the bottom and go home!

[NB Willawaw]

I believe that the tide takes 7 hours to come in and 5 hours to go out, presumerably due to the river flow.

Limehouse is a faff due to tide times and the access/parking is not so easy there.

I was looking to ride out some of the tides rather than having to rush between Teddington and Limehouse.

 

I have found a diesel bunker barge called Conquestor which will deliver alongside or you can come alongside at Tower Wharf (07747-756125).

 

The Broxbourne hire narrowboat "Frances" passed me on the Thames on Sunday. How does she get on the tideway without a VHF ???

 

Why not just lock into Limehouse basin?

 

I recently dropped my boat at the Isleworth Draw Dock (London Apprentice). You need to book it with the PLA.

 

The tide takes a long time to go out, but it comes in quite quickly. It's amazing that 40+ miles from the sea you wait for the tide to come in so you can get off the bottom and go home!

Edited April 16, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[blackrose]

I believe that the tide takes 7 hours to come in and 5 hours to go out, presumerably due to the river flow.

Limehouse is a faff due to tide times and the access/parking is not so easy there.

I was looking to ride out some of the tides rather than having to rush between Teddington and Limehouse.

 

I have found a diesel bunker barge called Conquestor which will deliver alongside or you can come alongside at Tower Wharf (07747-756125).

 

The Broxbourne hire narrowboat "Frances" passed me on the Thames on Sunday. How does she get on the tideway without a VHF ???

 

Longer to come in than go out? That surprises me. It seemed to come in much quicker then it went out when I was waiting at Isleworth, although I didn't time it.

 

How do you know Frances doesn't have VHF? Could be someone had a handheld like me. (Also VHF isn't required upstream of Brentford). Are you an experienced VHF operator? I got my licence 6 months ago but haven't used it since & have forgotten everything from the course. I could do with someone to practice with if you're ever in Brentford.

 

By the way, I don't know if you've already done this, but it's a good idea to carefully check the area that you are thinking of dropping your boat at low tide. I did this at Isleworth but I still came down with a lot of the boat's weight on the skeg because the ground rose slightly at that point. I had to rope the boat forward at 3am when the tide came back in so it would sit better when I went down again.

Edited April 17, 2007 by blackrose

[anhar]

... I got my licence 6 months ago but haven't used it since & have forgotten everything from the course. I could do with someone to practice with if you're ever in Brentford...

This is a good point. I'm considering doing the VHF course and wasting money on the radio because of the new damn stupid rule so that I can do the Limehouse-Brentford trip but I can't see myself doing it often, so like Mike I'm almost certain I'll forget the course stuff anyway after a while. Also I can't see a need for VHF anywhere else on the system when I intend to set out and cruise the UK. So all that expense and embuggerance would be incurred just for the maybe one time tidal Thames run. In effect it makes impossible this great journey for nearly all narrowboaters who simply won't spend all that money and hassle for the one time most would ever do it, especially if they don't live in or round London. And yes I know you can proceed if accompanied by another boat that is a radio user.

 

My question is therefore, when one exits Limehouse on to the river, does anyone actually check that in fact you have the licence and radio or could you just do it without?

 

regards

Steve

Edited April 17, 2007 by anhar

[blackrose]

This is a good point. I'm considering doing the VHF course and wasting money on the radio because of the new damn stupid rule so that I can do the Limehouse-Brentford trip but I can't see myself doing it often, so like Mike I'm almost certain I'll forget the course stuff anyway after a while. Also I can't see a need for VHF anywhere else on the system when I intend to set out and cruise the UK. So all that expense and embuggerance would be incurred just for the maybe one time tidal Thames run. In effect it makes impossible this great journey for nearly all narrowboaters who simply won't spend all that money and hassle for the one time most would ever do especially if they don't live in or round London. And yes I know you can proceed if accompanied by a radio user.

 

My question is therefore, when one exits Limehouse on to the river, does anyone actually check that in fact you have the licence and radio or could you just do it without?

 

regards

Steve

 

Well I think you're supposed to let the PLA know that you're on the tidal Thames, they're bound to ask you if you have VHF and if you say yes, then they may ask you for your callsign?

 

In fact before I left Brentford for Limehouse last summer before the new VHF ruling, I contacted the PLA (I think it was actually the London VTS part of the PLA), to let them know I was going to be making the trip. However, I don't remember calling them to let them know about the return journey the next day, and the lockkeepers don't ask you anything.

 

Still, it's probably not the wisest move to break the rules and will most probably invalidate your insurance. If you don't want to buy a VHF radio but want to do the trip, the thing to do is organise a few boats to go down at the same time - one with VHF.

Edited April 17, 2007 by blackrose

[Howard]

I know some of you will still bemoan the unfairness of the VHF rules, but if the PLA or Police come alongside , which they can do occasionally, and they found that you should have a VHF and didn't , I imagine it would end in a fine and probably escort to where you came from or the nearest safe point of mooring ....

 

As you know , I work for the EA not the PLA , and while (personally) I couldn't care less whether you have a VHF or not, I suppose it all comes down to safety. The PLA don't make any money out of you having a VHF , the only people who would , would be the chandlerys and the RYA , so it's not down to them wanting to 'tax' you in some way . In some respects it will make more work for them. If you have a VHF , and you have a problem , you can be in direct contact with London Coastguard in seconds as opposed to having to ring them on a mobile , or even worse having to attract someones attention. London Coastguard can then despatch either a PLA launch or more likely a lifeboat to come and assist.

 

Please don't think i'm a sourpuss ....

 

The PLA are much stricter on enforcing their rules than other agencies for example ....

 

There is quite a well known case of a chap driving his boat recklessly and speeding on the upper tideway (PLA not EA territory) , the PLA ended up taking him to court , and the chap hired a hot shot lawyer who quite dismissively stated in court that as no radar gun was used the prosecution was invalid ....

 

The judge asked the PLA officer how fast he thought the boat was travelling at , and then asked him how many years experience he had first with the merchant navy and then with the PLA ( it was about 25 ) .... to which the judge replied that it was good enough for him , and fined the chap £1500 .... this was some years ago now , no doubt nowadays it would end up in the European Court of Human Rights !!

 

Not really relevant to the VHF rules, but a nice story nonetheless.

 

Please everyone take care and you are more than welcome to come for a picnic and a chat when you are at Teddington. Hope to see you all soon.

[NB Willawaw]

I don't know for sure. Its highly unusual with hire boats but not impossible of course.

We have a Sailor RT2048 fixed VHF (I made some posts on the subject when I fitted it a few seasons ago).

I used VHF in the Merchant Navy and did the GMDSS operators course for VHF/DSC and MF/HF/DSC in more recent years.

I'm abroad working at the moment and the boat is back in London of course, but I will bear it in mind if up near Brentford.

 

I took the low tide/high tide photos to principally check the bottom and whether it dried out at low tide - it does,

I posted them on here because I thought others not on the Thames might find the tidal range of interest.

We talk about the tideway on the forum from time to time but pictures make it more interesting.

 

How do you know Frances doesn't have VHF? Could be someone had a handheld like me. (Also VHF isn't required upstream of Brentford). Are you an experienced VHF operator? I got my licence 6 months ago but haven't used it since & have forgotten everything from the course. I could do with someone to practice with if you're ever in Brentford.

 

By the way, I don't know if you've already done this, but it's a good idea to carefully check the area that you are thinking of dropping your boat at low tide. I did this at Isleworth but I still came down with a lot of the boat's weight on the skeg because the ground rose slightly at that point. I had to rope the boat forward at 3am when the tide came back in so it would sit better when I went down again.

Edited April 17, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[blackrose]

Please everyone take care and you are more than welcome to come for a picnic and a chat when you are at Teddington. Hope to see you all soon.

 

Are you providing the grub?

[mykaskin]

I believe that the tide takes 7 hours to come in and 5 hours to go out, presumerably due to the river flow.

Limehouse is a faff due to tide times and the access/parking is not so easy there.

I was looking to ride out some of the tides rather than having to rush between Teddington and Limehouse.

 

I have made a chart showing the tidal flow patterns of the Thames:

 

 

(For a litle more information, and bigger picture see my (unfinished) website page at: http://shoestring.zapto.org/boatinfo/Thames/index.html.

 

As you can see at North Woolwich it is nearly equal, and at Richmond you only get 3 hours of rising water (the flow of water might be still going downsteam during this time!)

 

Tides - you either love them or hate them, but either way they always give you a headache!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[NB Willawaw]

With the end of my tidal trip and foray in London, I have posted some of my photographs in my gallery, for anybody thats interested, at:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...m&album=163

[blackrose]

I have made a chart showing the tidal flow patterns of the Thames:

 

 

(For a litle more information, and bigger picture see my (unfinished) website page at: http://shoestring.zapto.org/boatinfo/Thames/index.html.

 

As you can see at North Woolwich it is nearly equal, and at Richmond you only get 3 hours of rising water (the flow of water might be still going downsteam during this time!)

 

Tides - you either love them or hate them, but either way they always give you a headache!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

Headache is right! It looks great but I've been staring at this thing for 10 mins and still can't get my head around it!

[NB Willawaw]

I have also uploaded my other favourite photos to a separate album:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...m&album=164

Edited April 21, 2007 by NB Willawaw