Diesel cookers/stoves

[Jason]

there may be posts about this already but i cant find them!!

 

Can anyone tell me how they have got on with a diesel cooker dickinsons, sigma, wallas, or stoves refleks, bubble, kabola???????????

 

I am thinking of puting one or more of these in a fit out im doing, i am going to use one with a back boiler for rads and calorifier, have any been used in the summer for the calorifier/cooking or is it best to put in some other heating for summer??????

 

thanks for any help!

Jason

[Alastair]

Most of your list are actually just heaters, rather than cookers.

 

What size is your boat?

[Jason]

Most of your list are actually just heaters, rather than cookers.

 

Thanks for your reply but what i put is correct    what i put as cookers are cookers and what i put as stoves (heater) are stoves,    dickinsons and sigma are COOKERS that heat the area and water.  wallas is just a COOKER.  refleks, bubble, kabola are stoves that heat the area and water(not cook)  i forgot one of the list taylors(stove)

 

What size is your boat?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The boat is 71'6 but i have a 20' tug deck, it is set out with origanal back cabin and engine room and about 30' cabin to fit in bathroom, galley, sallon.

 

what i am after is some advice from people who know about these stoves or have had one, how well did it work? did it do what the advert said it would ? any problems ??

 

many Thanks

Jason

[Jason]

Most of your list are actually just heaters, rather than cookers.

 

 

What size is your boat?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for your reply but what i put is correct what i put as cookers are cookers and what i put as stoves (heater) are stoves, dickinsons and sigma are COOKERS that heat the area and water. wallas is just a COOKER. refleks, bubble, kabola are stoves that heat the area and water(not cook) i forgot one of the list taylors(stove)

 

The boat is 71'6 but i have a 20' tug deck, it is set out with origanal back cabin and engine room and about 30' cabin to fit in bathroom, galley, sallon.

 

what i am after is some advice from people who know about these stoves or have had one, how well did it work? did it do what the advert said it would ? any problems ??

 

many Thanks

Jason

[Alastair]

I don't run one, I bought a small Taylor a couple of months ago - but haven't had time to install it. I researched thoroughly, first.

 

Apart from Refleks, all of the manufacturers on your list make cookers that heat as well as heaters.

 

Some are better at heating water than others. Quite a few can only have a water coil fitted at factory.

 

If I was getting a cooker that also heated, I think I would go for a dickinson. They do a fairly compact model that would fit in a narrowboat.

 

Wallas make diesel cookers that take a 'blower unit' for heating. From comments I've read this is really only for use heating one area.

 

I have corresponded with a canadian couple who've owned a couple of dickinson stoves, and one cooker on several boats. They think highly of them, if you would like I could pm their email address to you.

[Jason]

I don't run one, I bought a small Taylor a couple of months ago - but haven't had time to install it.  I researched thoroughly, first.

 

Apart from Refleks, all of the manufacturers on your list make cookers that heat as well as heaters.

 

Some are better at heating water than others.  Quite a few can only have a water coil fitted at factory. 

 

If I was getting a cooker that also heated, I think I would go for a dickinson.  They do a fairly compact model that would fit in a narrowboat.

 

Wallas make diesel cookers that take a 'blower unit' for heating.  From comments I've read this is really only for use heating one area.

 

I have corresponded with a canadian couple who've owned a couple of dickinson stoves, and one cooker on several boats.  They think highly of them, if you would like I could pm their email address to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Many thanks for the info I am taking it all in!!

[Gary Peacock]

Hi all

 

We have fitted both Wallis ovens and hobs, they do work very effectively but are expensive. The only down side being the size they seem to be primarily aimed at small boats and are not really large enough for serious regular use.

 

Gary

[Martin]

The owner of a boat we looked at a few years ago had some trouble.

The boat was a converted FMC Boat - "Bream" - and suffered a fire on board, the source being the Dickinson stove.

While this may be an isolated case, it makes one think about insurance.

The owner had left the boat for a short while and the fire occured while he was out - the stove was just sitting on tickover and not cooking, equivalent to leaving the pilot light lit on a gas appliance.

As such, the insurance company refused to pay up as the fire was left unattended.

In the end, I understand Dickinson themselves made a substantial goodwill payment, but the poor guy was still left out of pocket and faced with a refit.

How many of us pop to the pub in winter and leave the fire going - hoping for a nice cosy boat on our return?

 

Aside from this, they can I believe get a bit toasty in the summer - especially if this is the only source of hot water.

Even at tickover, they are still quite hot.

[Alastair]

This is one factor that pushed me to a Taylor as my first stove. It works on drip-feed, rather than a float chamber. The float chamber types can 'flood' the burner. Apparently (no personal experience here), if a down-draught extinguishes the stove, the diesel will continue to flow into the burner pot. As this is very hot, the diesel can vapourise and the vapour ignite, producing a lovely fireball.

 

Relfeks don't seem to suffer from this so much, if you google then you'll find a few references to it happening with Dickinson stoves. The float chamber design seems to be critical.

 

Kuranda sell a 'fuse' to go on the fuel supply line. This has plastic component that melts if things get too hot, shutting off the fuel supply. I intent to fit one with my Taylor heater. These fuses are fitted as standard on Old Dutch and Old English Kabolas.

 

The float chamber types of heater have an advantage of automatically adjusting the flow to the burn rate. The Taylor drip-feed type have to be adjusted manually, but otherwise seem safer.

[Big COL]

. 

 

The float chamber types of heater have an advantage of automatically adjusting the flow to the burn rate.  The Taylor drip-feed type have to be adjusted manually, but otherwise seem safer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does it do this? It can only supply the fuel to a pre-determined setting. Otherwise if it adjusted according to the burn rate, it would just keep on increasing the burn. There must be a manual setting that sets the maximum flow,increments of this setting will increase the flow and raise the temperature of the stove All stoves are a drip feed of some description unless there is some form of blown air or fuel pump incorporated with the fuel delivery. Otherwise the only difference is in the method of fuel metering, but can still only be described as drip feed.

[Alastair]

Basically.

 

There are float-chamber and drip feed. The float chamber type (often called a carburetor) have a manual control, that sets the fuel flow rate into the float chamber. The fuel is then drawn into the burner chamber by a difference in fuel height between the float chamber and burner. If the fuel is burning more quickly in the burner, it is drawn through a little (a little, these things are more complicated than I'm describing) faster. and visa versa.

This means that they automatically adjust to different burning conditions.

 

The drip feed stoves have two controls, a 'temperature/fuel setting' and a drip-rate control. The drip rate control has to be manually adjusted to cope with changes in weather conditions.

 

Guess the float chamber types are (conceptually) like a diesel engine, that automatically adjusts the fuel flow to meet the load.

[Echo_Wink]

I fitted a Lockgate Refleks 2000 in June last year (2004), which has just seen me through the Winter (well a bit left to go but Spring seems to be v. early this year!) It runs 3 radiators and goes through the calorifier to keep the water hot without having to run the engine. It keeps my 57' semi trad as warm as I want, even when the temperature dropped to -5c for a couple of days in Dec. It was a doddle to install, just a gravity feed from the bottom of the diesel tank for fuel and push fit Hep20 (actually used cheaper equivalent from B+Q) for the pipes to the radiators. Total job took 3 Days. Cut a hole in roof with £20 Jigsaw (from B+Q again), had the wrong angle ext chiney for curvature of roof initially but with one phonecall was replaced by return of post for a goodun. Costs £5 - £10 a week to run, depending on outside temp, but then I am having to pay 43p/litre on red diesel where I am. Just email me if you want to know more.

[SteveW]

The owner of a boat we looked at a few years ago had some trouble.

The boat was a converted FMC Boat - "Bream" - and suffered a fire on board, the source being the Dickinson stove.

 

Small world! I just registered on this site and this is my first posting. Apologies in advance for the length of this post but it maybe of interest...

 

Martin recounts the details accurately. after a long dialogue, Dickinson sent me a new Adriatic stove which I (very cautiously!) fitted. It worked really well, in fact WAY better than the old one ever had. I'd never been able to cook on the old one as it wouldn't get hot enough. Actually the day of the fire was the day after an adjustment I'd made on their advice (I'd been in correspondence with them for some months about low output.) The conclusion we came to about the fire was that the metering valve had not been working for some reason and it suddenly kicked in and delivered a lot of fuel to the burner pot in a very short tine.

 

After a year or so of using the new one, the heat output started to drop to the point where I could no longer cook in/on it. I've no idea why this happened as the flue was clear, fuel ouput seemed OK etc etc. Envisaging (rightly or wrongly) a repeat of the old problem, I stopped using it and planned to take it out, which I've still not quite got around to doing. I managed to pick up a cheap Kabola E5 on Ebay which I installed and is very reliable. The heat output is actually too high and I really would have to fit another radiator just to dissipate the heat on the minimum setting as it invariably overheats every week or so. not great when you live aboard and work full time!

 

I don't really want to do this as the radiators I have are unsightly and take up too much space, plus I really don't need the extra heat so I'm thinking about the Dickinson again. I'm going to take the whole thing apart, clean it out thoroughly and get the metering valve serviced by Kuranda. At that point I'll give it one more go and if it doesn't do the trick it will go onto Ebay and I'll replace the Kabola with something else, possibly a Bubble stove or and Old English/dutch so that I won't need the radiators.

 

Steve

NB Bream

[Alan Saunders]

All stoves should have specifications for their output, where there is a water heating capacity for radiators and/or calorifier this will be shown separately. Unfortunately, for many stoves the output to water cannot be obtained without the proportionate output to air - the manufacturers tend not to point this out.

 

I had a large cylindrical Refleks which was very good at heating the water and a radiator or two but would create unbearable temperatures in the summer. The previous owner moved it from the saloon into the engine room. I still have a small, two-ring Refleks in the Boatman's Cabin which runs 24/7 in the winter. I am cosy in the worst our winter can offer and the kettle is almost simmering on the small ring. Transfer it to the large ring and I have a brew in minutes - faster than 'high speed gas'!

 

Come the milder weather just boiling a kettle for tea will be a major project. It will take 10-20 minutes to light the stove and a further 10 minutes to boil a kettle. Worse, even if you shut it down completely, it will continue to put 2-3Kw into the cabin for some time. Having 'cooled off' you fancy another cuppa and have to repeat the process.

 

If you already have solid fuel or oil-pot cookers/boilers at home you would not be asking the question. On the other hand the AGA and some similar designs are superb cookers. If you want the best cuisine you will ignore (suffer) the disadvantages. De-sooting every few weeks/months is a messy business; AGA owners usually pay someone to do it, just like a chimney sweep for your solid fuel fire.

 

As an aside on the Refleks; should the float/needle-valve fail, the regulator (carburettor) will overflow. The overflow should be connected to an adequate receptacle e.g. the main tank - Refleks admit that installers fail to connect the overflow or even blank it off.

 

Alan

[GUMPY]

I run two of the stoves mentiond and have experience of a third.

In the main cabin I have a kabola old dutch this has no water heating and heats the main cabin 4.5m x 3.3m just fine.

It is fited with a flame failure device as standard so if the thing goes out the diesel is shut off. last Tuesday I picked up a fire valve this shuts off the diesel if the temperature goes above 65degC and will be mounted at the rear of the stove.

 

The rear cabin 3.1m x 3.3m has a Sigmarine 120 this is posibly the most economical stove I have used and seems to use no diesel at all.

I have fitted the firevalve on this one.

 

Both stoves are usually run on the lowest setting except when it gets really cold when I have to turn them up a little not even up to half though. they also have float chambers but both are fitted with metering valves that consist of a needle within a tube that is slotted so that the higher up the tube the needle is the more flow.

 

The Kabola has been fitted for 3 years and runs for a couple of monts at a time between cleans.

 

A Friend of mine has the wallas setup for cooking in his 70ft narrowboat and says its the best cooker he has ever had.

 

The only proviso on diesel heating is that coal is much cheaper now but then coal is messy and you cant leave it for months.

 

J

[Puffer]

I acquiired a Dickinson Adriatic with my 70ft narrow boat when I bought it five years ago. It is interesting to read other postings as most experiences are similar to mine (see my posting before I found this item). I haven't been happy with it as it tends to run OK for a while and then soots up. I left it on overnight in December when I broke down on the way to Stourbridge for maintenance! When I returned to the boat the following morning there was considerable smoke coming from the chimney (despite leaving the air circulating fan on) and I later discovered that the combustion chamber and chimney had filled up with soot. So I was probably lucky I returned when I did.

For safety mine is fitted with an over heat fusable link in the fuel line behind the cooker and there is another in the metering valve itself.

I had considered taking it out, but have been reluctant to do so as the cost of replacing it could be high and the resale value low. However, it smoked again yesterday so I am seriously considering biting the bullet and replacing it. I have a rather mad idea of putting a second hand (very reasonable priced) Rayburn on board ( I already have one in my house). At least the lids on them cut down the heat output when not required which the Dickinson does not have. How to get one on board needs a lot of thought as they weigh about 6cwt (or310kg in micky mouse measurements).

[Mark Edward]

I fitted a Lockgate Refleks 2000 in June last year (2004), which has just seen me through the Winter (well a bit left to go but Spring seems to be v. early this year!) It runs 3 radiators and goes through the calorifier to keep the water hot without having to run the engine. It keeps my 57' semi trad as warm as I want, even when the temperature dropped to -5c for a couple of days in Dec. It was a doddle to install, just a gravity feed from the bottom of the diesel tank for fuel and push fit Hep20 (actually used cheaper equivalent from B+Q) for the pipes to the radiators. Total job took 3 Days. Cut a hole in roof with £20 Jigsaw (from B+Q again), had the wrong angle ext chiney for curvature of roof initially but with one phonecall was replaced by return of post for a goodun. Costs £5 - £10 a week to run, depending on outside temp, but then I am having to pay 43p/litre on red diesel where I am. Just email me if you want to know more.

 

 

To Echo_Wink.

I'm looking at fitting a Lochgate-Refleks to a 60ft narrow boat I intend to fit out. So, I'd love to know how you get on with it and how you get on with heating hot water during the summer months. Does the stove emit much heat when hot water is needed just for the domestic chores?

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Mark

[smiffy]

Hi we are thinking of installing a SIGMAR 250 diesel cooker on our narrow boat as we would like to be gas free. Has anyone any experience of them Thanks Mike and Tess

[larkshall]

OIl powered cookers (AGA Raeburn, Esse excepted) are USELESS. Take forever to get to temp. Hob burners underpowered, and ovens loose temp so quickly, FORGET THEM apart for noddy cooking. I have used mst of them, and compared to gas or solid fuel they are pathetic.

 

In truth if you do any cooking or baking forget them sorry to say