Power usage

[Yoda]

It will not be long before liveaboards will have to pay full price for charging their batteries using the main propulsion engine. How can this be cost effective now that the full tax is going to be applied? Well more use of solar panels and led lighting might be an answer but what else is there to help?

[Ernie]

Yoda,

I am having the same thoughts, the only thing I can think of is wind and solar.

 

I have a diesel generator to save engine hours when charging. I went for diesel due to the lower cost but now that the tax is going up on red diesel, it is no longer going to be as cheap to run.

 

I suspect that when the price goes up, it will no longer be possible to get hold of cheap diesel for heating and electric around the system.

 

I also have a Bubble diesel stove so the price increase is really going to hurt me

[pearley]

Yoda,

I am having the same thoughts, the only thing I can think of is wind and solar.

 

I have a diesel generator to save engine hours when charging. I went for diesel due to the lower cost but now that the tax is going up on red diesel, it is no longer going to be as cheap to run.

 

I suspect that when the price goes up, it will no longer be possible to get hold of cheap diesel for heating and electric around the system.

 

I also have a Bubble diesel stove so the price increase is really going to hurt me

 

You will still legally be entitled to buy low duty fuel for heating, cooking and electricity generation, provided that you have a seperate tank and provided that you can find it.

 

The Chancellor only has to increase the duty to around 20p a litre to satisfy the EU. But will he. Browns reputation is such that he might take any opportunity to grab a few extra quid. According to ther threads, hire boat operators might be able to continue to use red diesel in their hire fleets and so may continue to sell it on to legitimate users.

 

Alternatively, there are enough boats around with dedicated tanks to make it worthwhile for a few yards around the counrty to install a second tank.

 

Regards

Pete Earley

Edited December 12, 2006 by pearley

[nmptwentyone]

It will not be long before liveaboards will have to pay full price for charging their batteries using the main propulsion engine. How can this be cost effective now that the full tax is going to be applied? Well more use of solar panels and led lighting might be an answer but what else is there to help?

 

i thought red diesel was getting a few more years reprieve?

[bottle]

i thought red diesel was getting a few more years reprieve?

 

Not quite, the derogation officially ends 1st January 2007 but owing to legal requirements (legislation change) then it will be delayed.

 

How long depends on negotiation with the EU as to how long they will give us to make the change, how quick the government change our own laws etc.

 

It may take years but, because we would like that, the government may get there finger out and do it in six months.

[blackrose]

You will still legally be entitled to buy low duty fuel for heating, cooking and electricity generation, provided that you have a seperate tank and provided that you can find it.

 

Alternatively, there are enough boats around with dedicated tanks to make it worthwhile for a few yards around the counrty to install a second tank.

 

I was thinking about installing a second tank for my diesel heater but I'll wait to see if red diesel survives. Surely you won't be able to buy red for electricity generation if that generator is also your means of propulsion? So a diesel generator will legally be allowed to run off red, but your engine won't. Thus a second tank could only be connected to a heater, cooker or built in generator.

Edited December 25, 2006 by blackrose

[John Orentas]

I was thinking about installing a second tank for my diesel heater but I'll wait to see if red diesel survives. Surely you won't be able to buy red for electricity generation if that generator is also your means of propulsion? So a diesel generator will legally be allowed to run off red, but your engine won't. Thus a second tank could only be connected to a heater, cooker or built in generator.

 

 

 

 

It could be said that if people go rushing around fitting ancillary fuel tanks is merely playing into the hands of the authorities, a bit like repairing the faulty trap-door on your own scaffold. I for one am going to make things as difficult as I can for them to implement these new measures. We should take every opportunity to be as obstructive and uncooperative as possible for as long as possible.

[david and julie]

It could be said that if people go rushing around fitting ancillary fuel tanks is merely playing into the hands of the authorities, a bit like repairing the faulty trap-door on your own scaffold. I for one am going to make things as difficult as I can for them to implement these new measures. We should take every opportunity to be as obstructive and uncooperative as possible for as long as possible.

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments John, I'm not quite sure what we could actually do to be awkward. When we do change I suspect the ultimate penalties will be draconian, to say the least. Customs can (and do) regularly confiscate vehicles found illegally using red. I suspect they will initially use this tactic on a few boats as examples, losing an old car is one thing but a £40K+boat, who would take a chance with that?

 

The authorities are far keener on policing their taxes than they are on everyday crimes.

[John Orentas]

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments John, I'm not quite sure what we could actually do to be awkward.

 

 

 

Well for a start don't fit extra tanks, they will say "Well if David & Julie can do it and at their own expense, so can everybody else and our problems will be very easily solved"

[david and julie]

Well for a start don't fit extra tanks, they will say "Well if David & Julie can do it and at their own expense, so can everybody else and our problems will be very easily solved"

I don't follow your logic John, the authorities don't have a problem too solve in the first place.

If I decided to fit an extra tank it would be because it pays me to do so, I suspect others would also do it for the same reason. Lets face it, a liveaboard(for example)with a landline may rarely run his main engine, so red diesel may be a non issue. Whereas a liveaboard without a landline would probably benefit by having separate tanks and a diesel genset, rather than use white.

 

Horses for courses, boaters can only decide according to their own individual situation.

 

Personally. I would have a separate tank because I begrudge giving greedy Gordon a penny more than I need too,irrespective of cost, that alone is a good enough reason for me.

[blackrose]

It could be said that if people go rushing around fitting ancillary fuel tanks is merely playing into the hands of the authorities, a bit like repairing the faulty trap-door on your own scaffold. I for one am going to make things as difficult as I can for them to implement these new measures. We should take every opportunity to be as obstructive and uncooperative as possible for as long as possible.

 

Perhaps you're right, but besides acting illegally I don't see how we can make things difficult for the authorities.

 

If we want to stop red diesel from disappearing altogether on the waterways surely we will have to do our best to sustain the market for it by fitting auxillary tanks (for heating & cooking appliances) - otherwise who will sell it?

Edited December 27, 2006 by blackrose

[Stephen Fulcher]

Customs can (and do) regularly confiscate vehicles found illegally using red. I suspect they will initially use this tactic on a few boats as examples, losing an old car is one thing but a £40K+boat, who would take a chance with that?

 

Is it true that customs look for a red marker in diesel engines that is left behind when a car has been run on red diesel, and that is how they prove that the vehicle was being driven illegally.

 

That being the case then a similar line on narrow boats will not work because the engines will have been run on red diesel for many years. The trick will work for new boats, but not for anything that was in the water before the law comes into effect.

 

That being the case, all they can do is dip the fuel tank!