Solo travel from Falkirk marina to Edinburgh - Glasgow

[Mibosa]

I recently travelled from Australia and spent two weeks on a 58'er along the River Thames with my wife. I am researching the possibility of travelling solo aboard a canal boat from Falkirk and travelling to Edinburgh and then to Glasgow, before returning to Falkirk. I have two weeks or more to do this proposed trip in about August 2014 and seek any advice or recommendations on who to contact for advice re this idea. Thanks, Bob.

[Odana]

You can do the whole thing in a week at a push, so 2 weeks is leisurely. As I understand it (just booked our trip) bridges are done for you.Black prince have a holiday planner on their website

[haggis]

I recently travelled from Australia and spent two weeks on a 58'er along the River Thames with my wife. I am researching the possibility of travelling solo aboard a canal boat from Falkirk and travelling to Edinburgh and then to Glasgow, before returning to Falkirk. I have two weeks or more to do this proposed trip in about August 2014 and seek any advice or recommendations on who to contact for advice re this idea. Thanks, Bob.

If you are planning on single handing on the Lowland canals I suggest you speak to your hire company and perhaps Scottish Canals. I gather that they can have a "funny "attitude to single handing as they reckon that you need two people on a boat while they work you through locks and the Wheel. I seem to recall an incident where a chap trailed his own boat up here and after paying his licence etc, found that SC were not happy about him being on his own. He did actually cruise all the Lowland Canals so I don't know if SC changed their attitude or not. Best check first, I think.

 

yes, I agree that it is a stupid rule, if it still exists.

 

haggis

[nicknorman]

If you are planning on single handing on the Lowland canals I suggest you speak to your hire company and perhaps Scottish Canals. I gather that they can have a "funny "attitude to single handing as they reckon that you need two people on a boat while they work you through locks and the Wheel. I seem to recall an incident where a chap trailed his own boat up here and after paying his licence etc, found that SC were not happy about him being on his own. He did actually cruise all the Lowland Canals so I don't know if SC changed their attitude or not. Best check first, I think.

 

yes, I agree that it is a stupid rule, if it still exists.

 

haggis

I happened to be looking at the F&C skippers handbook on the Scottish Canals website the other day. It contains the sentence: "No singlehanded sailing through the locks". Trainsetitis again!

 

Just imagine sailing your yacht single-handed around the world only to be told you couldn't transit the F&C!

Edited December 4, 2013 by nicknorman

[haggis]

I know, Nick, it is absolutely ridiculous. Almost as bad as saying that boaters are unable to do locks and need SC assistance. The fact that Iain and I regularly do hundreds of locks a week down south, some of them great big locks, makes no difference. I have been fighting for user operation of locks and bridges for 14 years now but I, an others who share my views, are up against the hire companies who do not want their hirers to do locks in case they sink a boat!! and of course, there are boaters up here who have never known anything else and can't see why anyone would want to wok locks.

I had something at the back of my mind that the transit licence costs more if you are single handed as SC then need to send out another man to work you through the locks so single handed boating might be possible but I very much doubt if any of the hire boats will allow it.

 

haggis

[IainW]

Falkirk to Edinburgh won't be a problem, get a tourist to jump aboard to do the two locks above the wheel then its plain sailing to Edinburgh.

 

I've gone through Forth & Clyde locks alone but they weren't best pleased. Apparently 5 men in a transit van isn't enough to help get through. If you get stuck, there are plenty of volunteer type folks or other boaters on the F&C that would give you a hand to keep SC happy.

 

On the bright side, a bunch of us did a lock course to allow us to go alone through the locks between Auchinstarry and Falkirk. During the course, they said the intention was to open up self-operation to bridges and other locks, but i doubt that would be for hire boaters initially.

 

Two weeks is a nice time slot to do both canals without spending all day every day boating. We usually do Falkirk Edinburgh in three days: Falkirk - Linlithgow; Linlithgow - Ratho; Ratho - Edinburgh. Linlithgow is a great wee town to stop with nice pubs.

[nicknorman]

How does SC feel about folk who want to go down to Bowling only to turn round and come back? Or down to the kelpies and back for that matter? It seems the well trodden path is between Edinburgh and Glasgow (Applehill? basin) with the periphery only getting a look-in for through traffic (yachts etc).

[haggis]

You're right, Nick. SC don't exactly encourage hire boaters to go down to Bowling. It takes them a day to work you down and another to work you back up. Friends of ours did it though on a hire boat. They had the boat for a week and went into Edinburgh, Glasgow and Bowling! They are serious boaters and are happy to do long days when conditions allow. We (in Gamebird) met them on their way back from Edinburgh and we travelled together to Bowling where we went out onto the Clyde to attend the Glasgow River Festival and they returned to Falkirk. I don't know if hire boats ever go down to Grangemouth sea lock but with the Kelpies, I am sure they will want to. The last time we went down, there was only one passage a day up and down so again, it was down one day and back another. For the Helix opening though, I think a lot of boats will be going down so that will change! With gamebird being only 26 feet long we can fit in with lots of other boats :-)

 

haggis

[Mibosa]

Thanks to all those who responded to my question. You have given me a number or areas to investigate. Bob

[Billw]

It really is a shame that self operation of the locks is normally not allowed on these canals. All it results in is that the canals are very little used for boating, which I think is a great pity after so much has been spent to get them open. I often walk the towpaths and it is very rare to see a moving boat.

I'm just one of many I suspect who would have a boat up here if it was easy to use it but instead I spend about three months per year on the English and Welsh canals.

As far as the usual excuse that it's their train set, those paid to administer these canals should reassess whether they are doing their job properly in discouraging boating on them.

[Mibosa]

Thanks again to BillW and everyone else. I have contacted Black Prince and they do not hire to solo travellers and the Scottish Canals site says that travelling on my own is not a happening thing. Such a shame, I am disappointed. Now looking at the Shannon in Ireland to see if I can hire on my own. I am expecting that it will be the same, but here's hoping!. Thanks, Bob

[haggis]

That's such a shame, Bob, that you will miss out on experiencing the Scottish lowland canals because of the short sighted views of Scottish Canals and the hire companies.

I will keep arguing for them to see the light but it is an uphill struggle. They, Scottish Canals, would far rather that boats were used as cheap housing and didn't move and inconvenience them

 

haggis

[Mibosa]

Yeah, you know how it is as you are obviously far more experienced than me. Whilst I did the River Thames with my wife and acknowledge the benefit of her assistance during locks and mooring, I feel confident that I could do the Scottish Canals on my own and wouldn't be shy in asking for help from other boaters or towpath users during those times. It's just hiring the boat which would be the hassle. Have no concerns though, I will convince the wife to do the Scottish Canals but it probably won't be for about 18 months or so due to all our other holiday plans. I will just wait to see whether some of the Irish companies I have contacted will allow me to go solo and be satisfied with the Shannon and environs. Beats the heck out of working! Thanks again. Bob

[IainW]

If you don't mind bending rules it is more than doable Mibosa. Happy to help. But then Irish canals do sound nice too...

[haggis]

I had thought of that too, Iain, but then I thought hat the hire company might not give him a boat if he turned up on his own. had a meeting yesterday about a new marina at Winchburgh. Not for a few years but things are heading the right way

 

 

Haggis

[oboat]

I recently travelled from Australia and spent two weeks on a 58'er along the River Thames with my wife. I am researching the possibility of travelling solo aboard a canal boat from Falkirk and travelling to Edinburgh and then to Glasgow, before returning to Falkirk. I have two weeks or more to do this proposed trip in about August 2014 and seek any advice or recommendations on who to contact for advice re this idea. Thanks, Bob.

You do not say where in Oz you are from? If you are in the Sydney area you may find it worth asking an ACS member if they are planning a trip. Members often club together for trips to the UK waterways. But that said I would recommend other waterways before the F&C the staff are off hand & totally spoilt our trip.

[oboat]

That's such a shame, Bob, that you will miss out on experiencing the Scottish lowland canals because of the short sighted views of Scottish Canals and the hire companies.

I will keep arguing for them to see the light but it is an uphill struggle. They, Scottish Canals, would far rather that boats were used as cheap housing and didn't move and inconvenience them

 

haggis

Interesting points you made.

The IWA had the same problem in London on the commercial River Lee.

The only way we did it was to have the locks electrified one by one. Started at the top & worked down about one a year. On the F&C it would seem that the first place to start would be on a lift bridge.

[haggis]

You do not say where in Oz you are from? If you are in the Sydney area you may find it worth asking an ACS member if they are planning a trip. Members often club together for trips to the UK waterways. But that said I would recommend other waterways before the F&C the staff are off hand & totally spoilt our trip.

I am SO sorry to hear that your trip was spoiled by the attitude of the F & C staff. I always find they are a great bunch of lads and I enjoy the banter, especially after I offer them tea and coffee. I know that SC employ summer casuals and I can only think that the ones you met were in the wrong job.

 

haggis

[oboat]

I am SO sorry to hear that your trip was spoiled by the attitude of the F & C staff. I always find they are a great bunch of lads and I enjoy the banter, especially after I offer them tea and coffee. I know that SC employ summer casuals and I can only think that the ones you met were in the wrong job.

 

haggis

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Unfortunately I don’t think they were summer staff, our feeling was we were in a hire boat so had to fall in with what they wanted not what we wanted.

The final straw was they would let us go through Wyndford Lock but would not tell us about coming back the next day so we had to stop at Auchinstarry Marina.

It was a way for them to have an early finish & not have to open Twechar Lift Br, without actually saying we could not go.

The next day we found other boats had come through from Kirkintilloch which had been our destination, so we could have gone back through with any one of them.

 

If we had been able to operate Twechar lift bridge we could have gone on & back without help.

As you know its a very small bridge and would be ideal for out of hours self operation.

Which is how we did it on the Lee.

When we asked about boat crew lock operation on F&C we were always told that the locks were to big for boat crews to operate (which was the story on the Lee in the 1970's, but by using power that argument did not hold water). Boat crews now operate all the big Thames locks out of hours.

But even the safety excuse will not work with a small rural lift bridge.

 

Please keep trying & good luck.

[haggis]

If it is any consolation, it is not just hire boats which have to progress according to when SC want to operate locks and bridges. It happens to those of us who moor up here and I for one find it most infuriating to the extent that the only time we venture onto the F & C is if we are going to an event. Otherwise we stay on the Union where we can stop and start as we wish.

Unfortunately, during the consultations prior to the Millennium Link, which saw the opening of the Scottish Lowland canals, it was stipulated by the local authorities when and how the lift bridges were to be operated. If the LAs had had their way, they would never have been opened at all. In the circumstances (the canals having been closed for 40 years) BWS, as it was then, grasped at any straw to get the canals reopened and we all hoped that things would settle down and a more realistic attitude would prevail. Sadly, this hasn't happened and we are left trying to get SC to realise that boaters can actually be trusted to operate locks and bridges. Good grief, the locks on the Crinan (also managed by SC) are actually bigger than the F & C and are boater operated. On the Lowland canals we are fighting against the hire boat operators as they too don't trust boaters to operate locks.

There are actually two lift bridges between Auchenstarry and Kirkintilloch and there are limits on when they can be opened (LA Rule). This means that a boat has to be worked through the first one (in any direction) to give enough time for the boat to get to and through the second one before the last permitted opening of the day. I understand too that the emergency services have to be kept informed of all bridge openings so that emergency vehicles are not held up. twechar may be a small rural lift bridge but it carries a lot of road traffic.

My advice to anyone hiring up here would be to contact SC as early as possible and arrange for passage through controlled locks and bridges. If SC have advance warning and know your wishes (before you actually get to the boat) they are more likely to have staff in the right place to help you. I don't think they try to be obstructive, but they are bound by some LA rules and they have limited staff. and they need to see the light :-)

 

haggis

[oboat]

If it is any consolation, it is not just hire boats which have to progress according to when SC want to operate locks and bridges. It happens to those of us who moor up here and I for one find it most infuriating to the extent that the only time we venture onto the F & C is if we are going to an event. Otherwise we stay on the Union where we can stop and start as we wish.

Unfortunately, during the consultations prior to the Millennium Link, which saw the opening of the Scottish Lowland canals, it was stipulated by the local authorities when and how the lift bridges were to be operated. If the LAs had had their way, they would never have been opened at all. In the circumstances (the canals having been closed for 40 years) BWS, as it was then, grasped at any straw to get the canals reopened and we all hoped that things would settle down and a more realistic attitude would prevail. Sadly, this hasn't happened and we are left trying to get SC to realise that boaters can actually be trusted to operate locks and bridges. Good grief, the locks on the Crinan (also managed by SC) are actually bigger than the F & C and are boater operated. On the Lowland canals we are fighting against the hire boat operators as they too don't trust boaters to operate locks.

There are actually two lift bridges between Auchenstarry and Kirkintilloch and there are limits on when they can be opened (LA Rule). This means that a boat has to be worked through the first one (in any direction) to give enough time for the boat to get to and through the second one before the last permitted opening of the day. I understand too that the emergency services have to be kept informed of all bridge openings so that emergency vehicles are not held up. twechar may be a small rural lift bridge but it carries a lot of road traffic.

My advice to anyone hiring up here would be to contact SC as early as possible and arrange for passage through controlled locks and bridges. If SC have advance warning and know your wishes (before you actually get to the boat) they are more likely to have staff in the right place to help you. I don't think they try to be obstructive, but they are bound by some LA rules and they have limited staff. and they need to see the light :-)

 

haggis

Yes,

I did know about the LA bridge lifting restrictions but I was told they were only at rush hour times.

I also knew about the requirement to notify the emergency services.

Both are achievable automatically through the use of a telephone landline much like the operation of a modern ‘Back to Base’ Burglar Alarm System or a set of emergency services controlled traffic lights near fire stations.

I actually stood at Twechar & checked out the number of cars going over the bridge, a lot less than at many other locations, not that it helps with local perceptions of course, and I certainly take your point. But that was some time back.

 

Twechar looked all set for a large canal side development did it happen?

 

So what is the situation on the Union at the Leamington Lift Bridge?

 

Do the Seagull Trust boat crews have training in its operation?

Or others come to that?

 

It was another point where we had to find the BW man before we could get through. (At the time the BW map said we had to give 48 hours notice).

 

I know it is of little value but that could be a way of breaking the first mould ?

 

The first is always the most difficult.

 

Alternatively if you could find a location which could be made available for operation for a set time after hours say 7pm to 8pm summer only Thus a standing notice is given, that could also be worth experimenting with.

 

All that would be needed is a key change ?

Plus the political will of course.

 

You did not mention my point about the mechanisation of the lock gates.

Did you try that?

 

We had 8 BW men to take us through three locks & a lift bridge?

[haggis]

Yes,

I did know about the LA bridge lifting restrictions but I was told they were only at rush hour times.

I also knew about the requirement to notify the emergency services.

Both are achievable automatically through the use of a telephone landline much like the operation of a modern ‘Back to Base’ Burglar Alarm System or a set of emergency services controlled traffic lights near fire stations.

 

I know that and you know that but it is hitting heads against brick wall time. The lift bridges are apparently so sensitive that they can't be trusted to boaters who can quite happily operate bridges like Aldermaston (??) on the K & A where is is a really busy road.

 

I actually stood at Twechar & checked out the number of cars going over the bridge, a lot less than at many other locations, not that it helps with local perceptions of course, and I certainly take your point. But that was some time back.

 

It's certainly not a mega busy road but it is apparently a main link road and therefore "important".

 

Twechar looked all set for a large canal side development did it happen?

 

Haven't been that way for a few years so don't know. Should be going to Bowling next July though to take part in the Commonwealth games flotilla.

 

So what is the situation on the Union at the Leamington Lift Bridge?

 

Do the Seagull Trust boat crews have training in its operation?

Or others come to that?

 

A little progress has been made on some of the Bascule bridges on the F & C and Leamington lift bridge in that you can attend a training course (yes, to open a bascule bridge!!!) and you are then licensed to operate whatever type of bridge you have been trained on. You can also , of course, attend a training course on operating locks but that only allows you to operate the 3 up to Wyndford. As another boater said on here recently, it is their train set and they make the rules and we can huff and puff and argue as much as we want and it gets us nowhere. The last time we went down to Grangemouth through 15 locks form Falkirk, the SC guys who operated the locks, had been with SC for 2 and 3 weeks respectively. Iain and I have been canal boating for over 30 years and regularly do hundreds of locks a week. and Iain has a licence to operate the F & C locks, but not these ones (and he doesn't legally have the means to do so).

 

It was another point where we had to find the BW man before we could get through. (At the time the BW map said we had to give 48 hours notice).

 

I know it is of little value but that could be a way of breaking the first mould ?

 

SC think they are being really proactive by issuing "licences to operate" and we just have to go at their pace. Unfortunately, there are not many boaters up here who feel as we do as they have known nothing other than having everything done for them so I am a lone voice!

 

The first is always the most difficult.

 

Alternatively if you could find a location which could be made available for operation for a set time after hours say 7pm to 8pm summer only Thus a standing notice is given, that could also be worth experimenting with.

 

But remember, boaters are not capable of operating locks, bridges etc.

 

All that would be needed is a key change ?

Plus the political will of course.

 

You did not mention my point about the mechanisation of the lock gates.

 

did you try that?

 

No haven't tried that approach as I saw it being too big a step for them to take. Boaters being able to push buttons?? They couldn't do that!

 

We had 8 BW men to take us through three locks & a lift bridge?

 

It must have been a big boat then :-)

 

To be honest, I often wonder why we even have a boat up here as we use it so seldom but it is good to be able to take part in the various events we organises up here. Scottish boaters, like boaters down south, are a sociable lot .

Gamebird, our 26 foot Sea Otter, holds quite a few records in that

1. she is the only boat to have been at all the opening events (we took her by trailer, if necessary)

2, she has attended all the canal events since

3. She was the first narrow boat ever to cruise the length of the Forth and Clyde canal (we launched in the Carron)

4 She was the first narrow boat ever to cruise the Crinan canal (followed a few weeks later by Ocean Princess)

5. She has cruised the Caledonian canal from end to end, including Loch Ness.

6. She attended the Festival of the Sea (tall ships) in Leith docks

7 She has cruised down the Clyde to Greenock

 

She has also been back down south a few times and attended canal events (including the IWA National)

 

She is a fun boat and we enjoy her despite the restrictions imposed by SC

 

haggis

[oboat]

I know that and you know that but it is hitting heads against brick wall time. The lift bridges are apparently so sensitive that they can't be trusted to boaters who can quite happily operate bridges like Aldermaston (??) on the K & A where is is a really busy road.

We went from Bath to the Olympic Site on the Lee with our F&C crew in July great fun & our first canal trip after the F&C trip for any of us.

I actually stood at Twechar & checked out the number of cars going over the bridge, a lot less than at many other locations, not that it helps with local perceptions of course, and I certainly take your point. But that was some time back.

It's certainly not a mega busy road but it is apparently a main link road and therefore "important".

Twechar looked all set for a large canal side development did it happen?

Haven't been that way for a few years so don't know. Should be going to Bowling next July though to take part in the Commonwealth games flotilla.

I would love to do that trip & up to the Dundus Basin Area. Be great to see a report when you get back.

 

So what is the situation on the Union at the Leamington Lift Bridge?

Do the Seagull Trust boat crews have training in its operation?

Or others come to that?

A little progress has been made on some of the Bascule bridges on the F & C and Leamington lift bridge in that you can attend a training course (yes, to open a bascule bridge!!!) and you are then licensed to operate whatever type of bridge you have been trained on. You can also , of course, attend a training course on operating locks but that only allows you to operate the 3 up to Wyndford. As another boater said on here recently, it is their train set and they make the rules and we can huff and puff and argue as much as we want and it gets us nowhere. The last time we went down to Grangemouth through 15 locks form Falkirk, the SC guys who operated the locks, had been with SC for 2 and 3 weeks respectively. Iain and I have been canal boating for over 30 years and regularly do hundreds of locks a week. and Iain has a licence to operate the F & C locks, but not these ones (and he doesn't legally have the means to do so).

I know the bridge license is ludicrous but it’s the only way !

It was another point where we had to find the BW man before we could get through. (At the time the BW map said we had to give 48 hours notice).

I know it is of little value but that could be a way of breaking the first mould ?

SC think they are being really proactive by issuing "licences to operate" and we just have to go at their pace. Unfortunately, there are not many boaters up here who feel as we do as they have known nothing other than having everything done for them so I am a lone voice!

I know where you are coming from re local attitudes. I have a similar local problem. You are very much in a chicken an egg situation & as the F&C reputation spreads less & less experienced boaters will come.

Maybe when the hire boats start to pull out they may understand.

It also seems that as the administration in the north is split from the south it will become even more difficult for you.

The first is always the most difficult.

Alternatively if you could find a location which could be made available for operation for a set time after hours say 7pm to 8pm summer only Thus a standing notice is given, that could also be worth experimenting with.

But remember, boaters are not capable of operating locks, bridges etc.

All that would be needed is a key change ?

Plus the political will of course.

You did not mention my point about the mechanisation of the lock gates.

did you try that?

No haven't tried that approach as I saw it being too big a step for them to take. Boaters being able to push buttons?? They couldn't do that!

Its not for the boater its for the staff so they can help more tourists !

We had 8 BW men to take us through three locks & a lift bridge?

It must have been a big boat then :-)

To be honest, I often wonder why we even have a boat up here as we use it so seldom but it is good to be able to take part in the various events we organises up here. Scottish boaters, like boaters down south, are a sociable lot .

Gamebird, our 26 foot Sea Otter, holds quite a few records in that

1. she is the only boat to have been at all the opening events (we took her by trailer, if necessary)

2, she has attended all the canal events since

3. She was the first narrow boat ever to cruise the length of the Forth and Clyde canal (we launched in the Carron)

4 She was the first narrow boat ever to cruise the Crinan canal (followed a few weeks later by Ocean Princess)

5. She has cruised the Caledonian canal from end to end, including Loch Ness.

6. She attended the Festival of the Sea (tall ships) in Leith docks

7 She has cruised down the Clyde to Greenock

She has also been back down south a few times and attended canal events (including the IWA National)

She is a fun boat and we enjoy her despite the restrictions imposed by SC

haggis

Have a good time on your trip.

 

Oboat .

Edited December 27, 2013 by oboat

[Mibosa]

Just to bump this topic up again, I ended up solo hiring a boat in the Republic of Ireland from Silverline Cruisers. Silverline allowed me to have an almost 9 metre boat for 12 nights which was well worth it. I started and finished in Banagher and went down to the lower end and up quite high, before returning. I did this trip as the wife was going off to Greece with the girlfriends. Last year we hired a boat and did the Canal du Midi in France for two weeks, which was again a great experience.

 

There was talk recently between the girlfriends of another girl trip in a couple of years time so out of interest I sat down the other night and sent off queries to many narrowboat/cruiser companies in the UK seeking out who would do solo hire. As expected many said no, citing insurance reasons and inability for a solo person to adequately managed a boat on their own. But surprisingly about 8 companies said they would solo hire throughout the UK. And that is without even trying to canvas them all. One company is at Falkirk so I started to look at Glasgow and Edinburgh for 2018-2020 or whenever the girls would get away, but the more research I did the sooner I wanted to do the trip. So it is now on the agenda for 2017 and I think the wife is interested, so there goes the solo hire idea!

 

Anyway, I think it is good that some of the companies respect hirers with extensive boating experience in their own countries and abroad.

 

Regards, Bob

Edited February 21, 2016 by Mibosa

[Iain_S]

Although there are several hire companies' boats at Falkirk, they are all operated by the same business.

 

There has been a little progress on self operation since 2013, in that locks 3 to 16 (Kelpies to Falkirk) are now operated by volunteers, and locks 17 to 20 should be going the same way this year. Also, one hotel boat is allowed to work his own locks. No progress on lift bridges, though, which will still be operated by Scottish Canals for the foreseeable future, although Leamington Bridge can be user operated, provided the user has attended a training course on how to press a button. There are resrictions, e.g. user operation ONLY when no Scottish Canals personnel available and no operation unless the operator is part of the crew of the boat going under the bridge (which doesn't make sense to me, either!)