Design for adventures

[Dr Bradley]

I am designing the build of a 57ft sailaway (almost certainly Liverpool Boats), which I will be buying as soon as my house is sold. It is to be a go anywhere liveboard. Having read the exploits of the Tueday Night Club in the Wash, Thames and other estuaries, not to mention Narrow Dog to Carcassonne, my adventurous ambitions know no bounds (well the Humber and the Ribble anyway).

 

What design features should I incorpaorate to make my boat as safe as possible in tidal waters?

[ChrisPy]

I hope you understand the RCD categorisation. Liverpool Boats will provide a boat to Category D which is not considered suitable for coastal use. If you are serious about designing for go-anywhere use then I suggest you really need to think about a Category C (or for cross-channel use, a Category B ) barge. Of course there are likely to be conditions set by the insurance company and the local coastguard on what and where you can go, partly depending on the categorisation.

If you go for a LB boat, I suggest you read the RCD requirements for Category C and try to incorporate as many as possible. They will include stability, height of openings, integrity of windows, etc.

Edited September 9, 2006 by chris polley

[John Orentas]

I am designing the build of a 57ft sailaway (almost certainly Liverpool Boats), which I will be buying as soon as my house is sold. It is to be a go anywhere liveboard. Having read the exploits of the Tueday Night Club in the Wash, Thames and other estuaries, not to mention Narrow Dog to Carcassonne, my adventurous ambitions know no bounds (well the Humber and the Ribble anyway).

 

What design features should I incorpaorate to make my boat as safe as possible in tidal waters?

 

 

How far do you want to go, the man who has set the standards for all this is Chris Coburn (he of Lee Sanitation). I have read several articles about his coastal trips and in particular about his boat Progress. I would be inclined to look up what you can and and I think he has written a book or two.

 

His boat is remarkably 'standard', though you may be advised to choose and engine a little larger than usual, make sure too that the hull plating is double welded (inside and outside) throughout, it is surprising how many builders are lax in this respect. A few obvious things, the front well deck must have a cover of some kind whilst retaining front door access for emergency use, no scuppers but some arrangement to drain the deck.

 

I was very impressed by a twin fuel filter /water trap that you can buy for sea boats, it has a clever arrangement of tap so that you can isolate either system for service without stopping the engine.

 

Lots of other things, arrange for all skin fittings including the exhaust to be above gunnel level which will mean pumps, if you use side windows fit them higher that usual. Extra robust mooring /towing studs and bollards.

 

It is up to you whether you take any notice of the RCD it is not compulsory for home built craft, personally I wouldn't bother, common sense is the best guide.

[Dr Bradley]

Chris and John

 

Thanks for the replies. I read Rcd cats but sometime ago (very early in my planning).I seem to remember that Cat C would appear to make a boat unsuitable for Inland use ( or at least less suitable) and passing the Boat Safety Test. I realise Chris you are not suggesting full compliance but using it as a guide which is good advice. Insurance willidge to cross when and if I come to it. The idea now is to incororate as much as possible to allow for future choices and I doubt if it will ever stretch to the channel but definately to the River Hull.

John, I'd never heard of Chris Courn but I'll search for his books - sounds interesting. Is double welding standard anfd you're suggesting some builders don't always come up to scratch (surprise surprise). I thought of designing removable covers for the windows rather than having them higher.

 

Catweasel, I see your on the site, why do you have a photo of me as your avitar?

[ChrisPy]

............................... Cat C would appear to make a boat unsuitable for Inland use ( or at least less suitable) and passing the Boat Safety Test.

why? BSS applies to all types of boats, many of which will be Cat B or C.

[Dr Bradley]

why? BSS applies to all types of boats, many of which will be Cat B or C.

 

 

I am probaly totally wrong and will have to read the classifications again. Do you happen to have a link to them?

 

Colin

[stuart]

.... Is double welding standard anfd you're suggesting some builders don't always come up to scratch (surprise surprise). ....

 

I believe that Liv. boats do double weld their base plates. The problem comes from small builders not having the machinary to turn a large (and v. heavy) base plate over during the building process. Some builders chuck the base plates onto the floor and then weld them all together, its then impossible to get at the bottom until the boat is craned out of their "shed"

Edited September 10, 2006 by stuart

[John Orentas]

I believe that Liv. boats do double weld their base plates. The problem comes from small builders not having the machinary to turn a large (and v. heavy) base plate over during the building process. Some builders chuck the base plates onto the floor and then weld them all together, its then impossible to get at the bottom until the boat is craned out of their "shed"

 

 

Hi Stuart.

 

I was actually referring to the hull side plating, I have seen a few boats where some joins have been correctly continuously welded on the outside but only tack welded or intermittently welded on the inside, for general fabrication work that method is quite in order but most people would agree that continuous both sides is far better.

 

The 12mm thickness base plate on my boat was only welded on one side, I was a bit concerned when told that is the way they do it but when I saw the finished job I was very impressed. The two plates a ground to a very deep 'V' the first weld has 100% penetration with 3 or 4 runs on top, the top couple of runs have a very wide figure of 8 weld pattern. Whether all builders do this is another matter, but still I have never heard of a failure.

[jerrytug]

Chris,you suggest that "the local coastguard" would have the power to limit where someone sails their boat? I don`t think they can. Or do you mean they can advise about things such as which design features would be recommended for a Cat C craft for example? That I approve of. But so far,no one can tell me what to sail or where to sail it,and long may it remain so.

[ChrisPy]

Chris,you suggest that "the local coastguard" would have the power to limit where someone sails their boat? I don`t think they can. Or do you mean they can advise about things such as which design features would be recommended for a Cat C craft for example? That I approve of. But so far,no one can tell me what to sail or where to sail it,and long may it remain so.

I hope you would consult the coastguard before you set off on a trip round the coast, or left Dover harbour en route for France, for example. I hope you would consult experts and probably hire a pilot before you left Bristol harbour en route for the tidal Severn. I hope you would not expect anyone to come to your assistance if things turned sour and you hadn't kept them in the loop, taken their advice and heeded their warnings.

 

I am probaly totally wrong and will have to read the classifications again. Do you happen to have a link to them?

 

Colin

Colin, just google for RCD or Recreational Craft Directive. If you persevere you will find the full legislation. Unfortunately that will lead you to BS-ISO-EN standards which are only available from the library or for purchase. But if you PM me I can help on some of those

[Alastair]

You will need proper nav lights for starters. I'd suggest including a folding mast in your plans - for nav lights and a VHF radio aerial .

 

Bilge pumps are a must.

 

Some method of fastening an auxiliary outboard motor would be a good idea.

 

Consider stability – the average box-hulled canal boat is terrible in a swell.

 

Windows will need to be reinforced. Canal-boat windows will not withstand water breaking against them.

[Dr Bradley]

Alastair

 

I hadn't thought of a mast for nav lights and radio but so obviously a good idea. I have just aquired a 15 foot aluminium pole with the intention of mounting a wind generator. I should be able to keep it up on tidal waters as there are not that many low bridges.

 

Good bilge pumps (and spares) I take for granted.

 

Outboard motor. I know that in the past narrrowboats have been lashed together for stability and a spare engine. Were I to do anything a bit exciting I had intended to seek a ligke mind - but on my own, yes an outboard is a good idea - though perhaps I can mount a sail on my 15 foot mast! (I am trying to put an emoticon here but seem to be failing). Oh- it worked!

 

I know stability is crap (2 boats tied together for a catamaran) and there is little can be done short of redesigning the hull. I would intend to have some sort of cover (as I have had on yachts in storms) to over the windows. I thought of all portholes but I want more light when I'm on canals -99% of my time.

 

Chris

 

Completely agree re informing coastguards - if you might want their help then keep them informed. But I would never wish to lose the option of telling no-one and doing your own thing. Just don't expect help if you don't join the system.

 

I have Googled RCD and as yet found nothing of use. I will keep trying but expect to PM you for further help shortly.

 

John

h

I see you are in the Rochdale Canal Society. Have had contacts in the past - pre restoration, as I was insrumental in the canoe course in Sowerby Bridge and ran much canoeing on the unrestored Rochdale. I will look at future meetings and try to get along.

 

Hope rplying like this to respondants is OK. Makes it a bit long, however to finish I'm going to have a bow thruster (CONTROVERSY) and I don't care what anybody thinks however I use it.

 

Colin

Edited September 11, 2006 by Dr Bradley

[DHutch]

We've taken emilyanne on the ribble and thames, as well as out onto the seven at sharpness down the avonmouth and higher up.

 

She was also approxamatly designed to be able to be take accross the channel, given a few modifications for the jounery, as a suitablely calm day.

 

She has a far higher free board than most narrowboats, bar a few fittings that could be plugged, she has over 2ft freeboard.

- Shes all a little heavyer and deeper than most NBs, at 22ton, and about 2ft8 draught. With a considerarably amount of effort being put into keeping the center of gravity as low as possable.

 

We also do have a 2ft high mast, which holds the masthead navigation light, as well as our sba burgee. The coloured nav lights are then fited to the front upper corner of the wheelhouse.

 

 

 

Daniel