WUSIG April Meeting - minutes

[Allan(nb Albert)]

For those who can't wait until the end of the year when BW might see fit to publish them, here are the draft minutes of the WUSIG meeting held in April.

 

Many thanks to "someone" who sent me these in the hope that I would publish. My view is that BW are fighting every inch of the way to avoid timely publication of documents that should be made public. There is absolutely no reason whilst minutes or notes of a meeting can not be made available on BW's website within a couple of weeks of the meeting taking place.

[Chris Pink]

in the section on K and A cruiseway status, there is reference to funding being available in this;

 

"however, after the news released today BW are in a position to push this forward again. "

 

What news is this? (22nd April)

 

 

another interesting item

Adrian Stott requested confirmation on how dredging was prioritised and if so

what are the current methods for prioritising. Vince Moran confirmed that there is

a methodology for doing this but he did not have the specific details to hand in the

meeting he also offered to provide a statement of the prioritisation criteria to the

Group.

 

To my mind on of the core tasks of BW is to dredge the channel. It is appalling that there is no one at this meeting who knows the answer to this question.

 

 

In corollary to your point, Allan, about BW being tardy in releasing these minutes, do you know whether any of the representative organisations present have issued reports?

[alan_fincher]

I must admit I always find publication of this kind of stuff fascinating, if I happen to get to see it, but am not actively enough involved in such things to go looking.

 

I do, however, wonder when I read it sometimes just how current people's knowledge is of the matters under discussion, or how accurately some stuff is reported.

 

Out of interest the following are out of line with my experience.....

 

Top Gate Walkways

 

Adrian Stott made the observation that along the Lee & Stort top gate walkways were progressively being removed for repairs and never being replaced. Was this a standard? Or was there a standard for replacing them? He felt that it was important that the best did not prevent the good. Vince Moran undertook to investigate the situation concerning missing or removed top gate walkways in the Lea Valley and elsewhere

I have done most of the Lee, and nearly all of the Stort recently, and never seen any top gates with a walkway. I asked a BW man about this, and he said they don't have them, so if they have all been removed it would not seem to be as a result of a particularly recent program.

 

I thought it odd that you have to walk around all the time, but I saw no evidence of recent removal of anything from top gates. Archive pictures I've seen of the modernised locks certainly don't have anything.

 

Security locks on BW operational structures.

 

Roger Squires commented that there was a difference in the type of lock used between the north and the south of the country. John Baylis let the meeting know that approximately 80% of BW locks are the ‘T’ key type with only about 50 locks being operated with the Yale key, mostly electro-hydraulic structures in the North. The reason for this is that the ‘T’ locks are less susceptible to vandalism. Nigel Hamilton noted that the spring loaded "t bar" operated system of security locks, were far easier/ quicker to use, more popular with boaters and less prone to vandalism he also suggested that these should become the standard method for fitting security locks to BW structures; Vince Moran agreed to look into this.

Existing locks on gates on the Aylesbury Arm, down at Norwood/Hanwell, and on the Regents towards Limehouse etc use the BW Watermate Key. I have yet to see the "T Bar" ("Handcuff") type anywhere south of Birmingham, Staffs and Worcs, etc. So if it is only 50 locks, quite a lot are actually on South east and London waterways.

 

The use of the BW key is well less than ideal, but when a whole host of additional locks were fitted on the Dudswell to Berkhamsted stretch 2/3 years back, not only did they go for BW key, but also dangly padlocks on chains that get vandalised and quickly removed. The measures are close to useless, in fact.

 

The BW key is a particularly poor choice because.....

 

Bernard Hales also spoke to the meeting about the sale of BW keys on Ebay. Sally Ash confirmed that we were aware of this and BW has spent a lot of time investigating the legal powers that we have to remove the sale of these keys on Ebay and BW is unable to prevent the sale of these keys on Ebay.

 

The BW has not changed since it's introduction in (maybe) the early 1970s. I still use one from that date, and anybody who wants one (for good purposes or bad) can easily obtain.

 

That said, or course, the "handcuff" key is as easily obtained, but at least it's relatively easy to use in practice.

 

So, is my experience of where top gate walkways exist wrong, or have I imagined that the only way of locking GU gates is with a Yale key, not a T-Bar ? I don't think so, so perhaps these people need to get out there and look at the canals.

 

(Additionally, aren't there Yale locked locks around the Leicester area too ? - Not sure on that one, though).

[KenK]

in the section on K and A cruiseway status, there is reference to funding being available in this;

 

"however, after the news released today BW are in a position to push this forward again. "

 

What news is this? (22nd April)

 

 

another interesting item

 

 

To my mind on of the core tasks of BW is to dredge the channel. It is appalling that there is no one at this meeting who knows the answer to this question.

 

 

In corollary to your point, Allan, about BW being tardy in releasing these minutes, do you know whether any of the representative organisations present have issued reports?

 

I went to the Devises meeting on Sunday, Sally Ash and Simon Salem and Nick Worthington from BW. The cruiseway status was mentioned and according to BW they have no problem with a change of status as it would not be a cost issue, according to them the K&A gets the same level of funding as a compareable cruiseway. It is however up to Defra to decide to implement the change.

 

Nick also said they have hired a work-boat capable of cutting back vegatation on the non-towpath side and doing spot dredgeing, it will be in action from Reading to Woolhampton shortly.

 

Ken

[howardang]

in the section on K and A cruiseway status, there is reference to funding being available in this;

 

"however, after the news released today BW are in a position to push this forward again. "

 

What news is this? (22nd April)

 

 

 

 

another interesting item

 

 

To my mind on of the core tasks of BW is to dredge the channel. It is appalling that there is no one at this meeting who knows the answer to this question.

 

 

In corollary to your point, Allan, about BW being tardy in releasing these minutes, do you know whether any of the representative organisations present have issued reports?

 

Chris, I hope this is of help.

 

The news referred to is in item 4 of the draft minutes - this mentions the fact that the day before the meeting BW had be told that they would retain the property portfolio which would help to maintain funding rather than cause a radical rethink if the BW property went elswhere. I think the implication was that some projects might have been scrapped if the decision had gone against BW.

 

Re Vince Morans comments on dregding, he was asked a question about the way BW prioritise dredging and his reply was that although there is a detailed methodology in place he didn't have that to hand for the meeting but will produce it at a later date.

 

Regarding your final question, certainly one organisation that was present published a report. NABO had a detailed written and verbal report at the next Council meeiting and a shorter version was published in the May Edition of NABO News.

 

Howard Anguish

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Chris, I hope this is of help.

 

The news referred to is in item 4 of the draft minutes - this mentions the fact that the day before the meeting BW had be told that they would retain the property portfolio which would help to maintain funding rather than cause a radical rethink if the BW property went elswhere. I think the implication was that some projects might have been scrapped if the decision had gone against BW.

 

Re Vince Morans comments on dregding, he was asked a question about the way BW prioritise dredging and his reply was that although there is a detailed methodology in place he didn't have that to hand for the meeting but will produce it at a later date.

 

Regarding your final question, certainly one organisation that was present published a report. NABO had a detailed written and verbal report at the next Council meeiting and a shorter version was published in the May Edition of NABO News.

 

Howard Anguish

 

Howard is quite right - NABO did publish a report shortly after the meeting. However, I still think it is incumbent upon British Waterways to publish notes and minutes in a timely fashion. If they can do it for board minutes (2-3 weeks after the meeting) there is no reason why they can't do it for other regional and national meetings. Six months or more is simply too long to wait. Perhaps this is an issue that user groups can take up on behalf of members.

 

On a lighter note - I wonder if anyone in BW has picked up Jonathan Bryants actions. He went very suddenly didn't he!

 

 

***** Edited to confirm that the document I have published did not come from NABO *****

Edited September 8, 2009 by Allan(nb Albert)