Separating a JP2 Reduction box from reversing box

[frangar]

Hi

 

Just wondering if anyone has a bright idea??

 

This winters project is the overhaul of my JP2 gearbox's....During the summer the slight grumble I had when going ahead was getting worse so I decided to bite the bullet and get them overhauled.....I have found a company who are able to remake gears and parts for vintage machinery so all I had to do was remove the reduction box and reversing box from the boat (!!) and take it to them.

 

As you might have guessed this has not been as easy as it might have been!! Last time I had to take the reduction box off I'm sure all I did was remove the bolts holding it to the reversing box....undo the castllated nut on the input shaft and slide the box out......however this time it doesnt want to budge....I have got the box out still attached to the reverse gear cluster which was fun in it's self but before either myself or anyone else does any damage I just want to check I havent missed something!!

 

My thoughts at the moment are that the grumbling noise may have been caused by the bearing on the input gear and this has overheated and the race has stuck on the shaft......Any ideas gratefully received!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Chris-B]

Hi

 

Just wondering if anyone has a bright idea??

 

This winters project is the overhaul of my JP2 gearbox's....During the summer the slight grumble I had when going ahead was getting worse so I decided to bite the bullet and get them overhauled.....I have found a company who are able to remake gears and parts for vintage machinery so all I had to do was remove the reduction box and reversing box from the boat (!!) and take it to them.

 

As you might have guessed this has not been as easy as it might have been!! Last time I had to take the reduction box off I'm sure all I did was remove the bolts holding it to the reversing box....undo the castllated nut on the input shaft and slide the box out......however this time it doesnt want to budge....I have got the box out still attached to the reverse gear cluster which was fun in it's self but before either myself or anyone else does any damage I just want to check I havent missed something!!

 

My thoughts at the moment are that the grumbling noise may have been caused by the bearing on the input gear and this has overheated and the race has stuck on the shaft......Any ideas gratefully received!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

 

Gareth

It probably is just stuck, there is a rubber ring on the spigot bush and these can get sticky

We probably have a set of reduction gears ( 2:1 & 3:1 ) if this is any use...

 

If you want to give Peter Thompson a ring he will be able to advise etc

01895 236246 BUT he is not in today back tomorrow

 

Chris

[frangar]

Gareth

It probably is just stuck, there is a rubber ring on the spigot bush and these can get sticky

We probably have a set of reduction gears ( 2:1 & 3:1 ) if this is any use...

 

If you want to give Peter Thompson a ring he will be able to advise etc

01895 236246 BUT he is not in today back tomorrow

 

Chris

 

 

Cheers for that Chris!

 

I have managed to get it past the rubber O ring (and indeed have split the reverse box now (as it was meant to be split!)) It seems the reduction box has jammed on the output shaft from the reverse box....The thread that the castallated nut fits on is about flush with the input reduction gear! I have got it all out the boat anyhow. Will give Peter a ring tomorrow....should give him a good laugh if nothing else! Hoping the gears are OK (Peter fitted a new set about 10 years ago and guess they have done about 1500 hours since (need to go boating more!!). But will get in touch if I need any bits.......do you know what the thickness of the brake band friction material should be??? Now its in this many bits may as well make sure it doesnt need doing again in my lifetime!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[frangar]

YAY!

 

Sucess!

 

After a quick chat with Peter Thompson and realising that it didnt come apart quite how I remembered I have now manged to get the bits apart!! (I now see what you mean Baldock!!)

 

The Reduction gears look fine but there is some play in the bearing race on the input shaft to the reduction box so my guess is that is the cause of the noise!

 

Once again thanks to Baldock & Peter for their help.

 

Thats the hard bit over.....Now I can start the rebuild!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[MoominPapa]

The Reduction gears look fine but there is some play in the bearing race on the input shaft to the reduction box so my guess is that is the cause of the noise!

Are bearings available to fit these boxes? I have a feeling I may be following you down this path sometime.

 

MP.

[frangar]

Are bearings available to fit these boxes? I have a feeling I may be following you down this path sometime.

 

MP.

 

Will tell you once I've done mine!

 

The bearings look a fairly standard ball & thrust type so I'm hopeful! Just try not to break anything as you dismantle as after my chat with Peter Thompson it would appear other parts are like rocking horse sh*t

 

Sometimes it can be fun being the custodian of vintage machinery!!....all those people on the towpath who say "that sounds nice" dont get to see this bit!!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[MoominPapa]

Will tell you once I've done mine!

I look forward to hearing of your progress......

 

MP.

[PaddingtonBear]

When my Brunton type box was rebuilt all the bearings were replaced, well I considered it good practice after 71 years, and I was somewhat dubious that they would be available, as were the RN Engine Co and I have visions of having them made. A phone call to their surplier brought forth the response 'All on the shelf and they were in my hot sweaty little hands the next day. All the more astonishing as two of them had laid on the shelf untouched since 1952 - so I bought duplicates just in case!!

[Big COL]

Will tell you once I've done mine!

 

The bearings look a fairly standard ball & thrust type so I'm hopeful! Just try not to break anything as you dismantle as after my chat with Peter Thompson it would appear other parts are like rocking horse sh*t

 

Sometimes it can be fun being the custodian of vintage machinery!!....all those people on the towpath who say "that sounds nice" dont get to see this bit!!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

Hi just adding to my data base.

When you guys replace bearings in these vintage boxes, what grade bearings do you use B or C?

[MoominPapa]

The bearings look a fairly standard ball & thrust type so I'm hopeful! Just try not to break anything as you dismantle as after my chat with Peter Thompson it would appear other parts are like rocking horse sh*t

New clutch plates available here. Brace yourself before looking at the price......

 

MP.

Edited November 28, 2008 by MoominPapa

[frangar]

New clutch plates available here. Brace yourself before looking at the price......

 

MP.

 

 

Hi

 

These appear to be for a 2G box.....the one fitted to a JP is a 3G......so I guess they would be even more expensive and maybe harder to get!! 2G's I think were fitted to the FR range and maybe others.

 

Thanks for the link thouugh....might give them a shout to see what they have got and if they fancy my spare 6G shaft!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

Hi just adding to my data base.

When you guys replace bearings in these vintage boxes, what grade bearings do you use B or C?

 

 

I'm afraid thats beyond my knowledge!! I was just going to take the bit's to my nice man who says he can repair it!!

 

Baldock might be able to help

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[MoominPapa]

Hi

 

These appear to be for a 2G box.....the one fitted to a JP is a 3G......so I guess they would be even more expensive and maybe harder to get!! 2G's I think were fitted to the FR range and maybe others.

Ah, I'm confused. I thought that the 2G was the smaller box that was fitted to the JP2 as well as the smaller FRs and others? I'm tempted to buy a pair just so that I know I have them for my FR2/2G combo, The price is wince-worthy though.

 

A bit of Googling has found an advert on Craigslist in Vancouver(!) selling a whole collection of FR spares, but frustratingly, it only has a phone number, and the answerphone on the end is full. Grrrr.

 

Thanks for the link thouugh....might give them a shout to see what they have got and if they fancy my spare 6G shaft!

 

Good idea.

 

 

MP.

[frangar]

Ah, I'm confused. I thought that the 2G was the smaller box that was fitted to the JP2 as well as the smaller FRs and others? I'm tempted to buy a pair just so that I know I have them for my FR2/2G combo, The price is wince-worthy though.

 

A bit of Googling has found an advert on Craigslist in Vancouver(!) selling a whole collection of FR spares, but frustratingly, it only has a phone number, and the answerphone on the end is full. Grrrr.

 

 

 

Good idea.

 

 

MP.

 

As far as I know the JP2 & JP3 were fitted with a 3G box and JP4 & maybe JP6 were fitted with a 6G box......not quite sure what the numbers stand for or how the newer engines had a box with a lower number....maybe something to do with the number of gears in the epicyclic system?? It seems that the 2G box has a sloping top plate whereas the 3G has a flat top plate....but I could be wrong on all counts (Mine has a flat top plate if that helps!!)

 

It might be worth buying bits if you can afford it as it never hurts to have bits for vintage machinery.....however this is how I came to have a 6G shaft....

 

To be honest if your box is only making a noise in reverse then I would leave well alone...perhaps just checking the adjustment on the brake bands being careful not to overtighten them.....If it is grumbling in Ahead then its probably the reduction box...either bearings or geartrain.....which you can still get parts for it would appear!!

 

When you take one apart you can see they are well engineered and rather heavy! so seem to be able to put up with a lot of abuse!

 

Will keep you posted on how I get on!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[MoominPapa]

As far as I know the JP2 & JP3 were fitted with a 3G box and JP4 & maybe JP6 were fitted with a 6G box......not quite sure what the numbers stand for or how the newer engines had a box with a lower number....maybe something to do with the number of gears in the epicyclic system?? It seems that the 2G box has a sloping top plate whereas the 3G has a flat top plate....but I could be wrong on all counts (Mine has a flat top plate if that helps!!)

That's useful information. Mine (on an FR2M) has a sloping top plate, so that fits. (It's also lost its data plate at some point, which makes life difficult.)

It might be worth buying bits if you can afford it as it never hurts to have bits for vintage machinery.....however this is how I came to have a 6G shaft....

My thoughts too. Especially for wearing parts like friction linings.

To be honest if your box is only making a noise in reverse then I would leave well alone...perhaps just checking the adjustment on the brake bands being careful not to overtighten them.....If it is grumbling in Ahead then its probably the reduction box...either bearings or geartrain.....which you can still get parts for it would appear!!

 

It's noisy astern, which is to be expected, but it's also noisy ahead, so at some point I'll have a look. That's probably on the list for next winter, though. Interestingly, the reduction box seems to be losing a reasonable amount of oil. I can't see where it's going because it's difficult to distinguish a reduction box leak from the myriad of other oil leaks.

When you take one apart you can see they are well engineered and rather heavy! so seem to be able to put up with a lot of abuse!

 

Will keep you posted on how I get on!

 

Please do.

 

Cheers,

 

Simon.

[Timleech]

That's useful information. Mine (on an FR2M) has a sloping top plate, so that fits. (It's also lost its data plate at some point, which makes life difficult.)

 

My thoughts too. Especially for wearing parts like friction linings.

 

 

It's noisy astern, which is to be expected, but it's also noisy ahead, so at some point I'll have a look. That's probably on the list for next winter, though. Interestingly, the reduction box seems to be losing a reasonable amount of oil. I can't see where it's going because it's difficult to distinguish a reduction box leak from the myriad of other oil leaks.

 

 

Please do.

 

Cheers,

 

Simon.

 

Be aware, if you're thinking of getting parts 'just in case', that some of the early Blackstone boxes don't have friction linings, they have metal to metal clutches (certainly true with the 3G) and the parts aren't necessarily interchangeable.

 

To the best of my knowledge the FR 2&3, as well as the H series 2 & 3 use the 2G box, probably the CE as well.

 

Tim

[PaddingtonBear]

Good gracious Moomin, what is all this planning so far ahead? In the event of all this coming off can I volunteer to be No. ! donkey? as I am suffering withdrawal symptoms and perhaps I had better bring my chainblocks back up when next I come.

Edited November 29, 2008 by PaddingtonBear

[MoominPapa]

Good gracious Moomin, what is all this planning so far ahead?

"Failing to plan, is planning to fail"

In the event of all this coming off can I volunteer to be No. ! donkey?

Of course!

as I am suffering withdrawal symptoms

What you need is a big Northwich to play with.

and perhaps I had better bring my chainblocks back up when next I come.

not on my behalf. I could do with your spare diesel filter though. Have spent today ripping apart my engine-room plumbing.

 

MP.

 

 

Be aware, if you're thinking of getting parts 'just in case', that some of the early Blackstone boxes don't have friction linings, they have metal to metal clutches (certainly true with the 3G) and the parts aren't necessarily interchangeable.

 

To the best of my knowledge the FR 2&3, as well as the H series 2 & 3 use the 2G box, probably the CE as well.

 

Tim

Thanks for that. The lost data plate on my gearbox might be a problem with this. I'll see if the engine number is enough to nail down gearbox components.

 

MP.

[Timleech]

I could do with your spare diesel filter though. Have spent today ripping apart my engine-room plumbing.

 

MP.

 

I've got a couple of spare Lister wick-type duplex filters kicking around, I think one of them is unused, never been on an engine.

 

Tim

[MoominPapa]

I've got a couple of spare Lister wick-type duplex filters kicking around, I think one of them is unused, never been on an engine.

I'd certainly be interested in the new one, as a spare. My FR2, unlike many, has the wick filter installed. PM me.

 

The one I'm scrounging from PB is a CAV filter, which I also have. The long boring story is that the injector leak-off line from the engine runs back to the bleed port on the CAV filter, via a complicated-looking union which I'd assumed was a non return valve. It turns out that the complicated looking union is just a nasty homemade botch and not a non return valve at all. That means that the leak-off line is subject to the full force of the BSS regulations on fuel lines, which it won't satisfy.

 

I think the easiest fix to this is to remove the nasty homemade union and plug the bleed port, and run the leak-off into the top of the day tank. That will keep the BSS happy and improve the fuel system, since any air in the leak-off will be eliminated rather than being recirculated into the injection pumps. So, I need a suitable plug, and possibly a complete filter, if the dodgy-looking threads on the existing one turn out to be bad.

 

Isn't this stuff fun?

 

MP.