portland basin

[John Orentas]

Why is it that every time the topic of Portland Basin and it's scruffy inhabitants comes up it gets side-tracked into a debate about the virtues of restoring historic boats..

 

I can assure you all and I suspect most members have never been there, the two matters are not the same at all, in fact the former totally contradicts the latter..

[Debby]

We came through Portland Basin on Sunday. It was wonderful to see the boats. There were no drunks/people with beer cans around them, in fact there was no one around at all. On the towpath side, leading out of the basin, it all looked pretty scruffy, but the area where the boats are moored looked fine.

[Chris Pink]

I suspect most members have never been there

 

Well that is certainly true for me, effete Southerner but these pictures?

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3a...tland_Basin.jpg

 

http://www.ashton-under-lyne.com/places/po...basinmuseum.htm

http://www.virtual-tameside.net/portlandbasin.html

 

 

are they not accurate?

 

And as you feel so strongly, John, get down there and get involved, shake up a few people, get those boats restored.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Chris Pink

[Debby]

Well that is certainly true for me, effete Southerner but these pictures?

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3a...tland_Basin.jpg

 

http://www.ashton-under-lyne.com/places/po...basinmuseum.htm

http://www.virtual-tameside.net/portlandbasin.html

 

 

are they not accurate?

 

And as you feel so strongly, John, get down there and get involved, shake up a few people, get those boats restored.

 

The last two links were pretty much how the basin looked on Sunday. I just wished we'd had time to have a good look at the boats.

[mayalld]

Why is it that every time the topic of Portland Basin and it's scruffy inhabitants comes up it gets side-tracked into a debate about the virtues of restoring historic boats..

 

I can assure you all and I suspect most members have never been there, the two matters are not the same at all, in fact the former totally contradicts the latter..

 

You make these comments as if you are a cast iron unimpeachable authority on what goes on there.

 

On what grounds do you claim that authority?

 

As far as I can tell, when you had a boat, you were based on the UPPER PF, and you are now a leading light of the ROCHDALE CS.

 

Certainly, you have probably visited PB more than many contributors, but your experience of both PB and the WCBS seems to be somewhat fleeting. In comparison;

 

Smelly has actually worked with the WCBS

Martin is regularly to be found on the trip boats that operate from PB

I have a boat moored just up the canal from PB, have towed Lilith (by car and boat), and my step-daughter works at the museum.

 

I rather think that there are other people who can talk on this subject with more authority than you can

[John Orentas]

Well that is certainly true for me, effete Southerner but these pictures?

 

are they not accurate?

 

And as you feel so strongly, John, get down there and get involved, shake up a few people, get those boats restored.

 

 

Hi Chris.

 

I don't think it is me that "Feels so strongly" one way or the other, I was simply responding to someones comments as I have done several times before, when I choose to counter that "Young industrious chaps bringing old boats back to life" rubbish I keep reading about, written by people without a full understanding of the situation.

 

The photo's are accurate, though perhaps a few years old, there are a few omissions however, where's all the junk and odd looking 'minders' that normally adorn the boats and thinking about it the boats are usually on the other side of the canal alongside the towpath.

 

The museum area as you can see in the publicity material is nicely restored warehouse (actually rebuilt since a major fire a few years ago) and is constantly being updated..

 

All very well saying "get down there and get involved", why do you assume that I do not do my 'bit' for the waterways. If I was to get involved with those boats, let us just say that I would do things a little differently.

[Debby]

The photo's are accurate, though perhaps a few years old, there are a few omissions however, where's all the junk and odd looking 'minders' that normally adorn the boats and thinking about it the boats are usually on the other side of the canal alongside the towpath.

 

There was no 'junk' there on Sunday, no 'minders' either. And the boats were where they are in the photos. Perhaps there are two Portland Basins - the one we went through on our way from the Peak Forest to the Huddersfield Narrow, and the one John visits........

[mayalld]

Hi Chris.

 

I don't think it is me that "Feels so strongly" one way or the other, I was simply responding to someones comments as I have done several times before, when I choose to counter that "Young industrious chaps bringing old boats back to life" rubbish I keep reading about, written by people without a full understanding of the situation.

 

The photo's are accurate, though perhaps a few years old, there are a few omissions however, where's all the junk and odd looking 'minders' that normally adorn the boats and thinking about it the boats are usually on the other side of the canal alongside the towpath.

 

Yet again, inaccurate.

 

The boats are usually exactly where they appear in the picture.

 

Is this another "usually" based on walking past 30 times at a canal festival?

 

As to the "odd looking" people, I do believe a bit of prejudice is showing through there.

[Smelly]

Hi Chris.

 

I don't think it is me that "Feels so strongly" one way or the other, I was simply responding to someones comments as I have done several times before, when I choose to counter that "Young industrious chaps bringing old boats back to life" rubbish I keep reading about, written by people without a full understanding of the situation.

 

The photo's are accurate, though perhaps a few years old, there are a few omissions however, where's all the junk and odd looking 'minders' that normally adorn the boats and thinking about it the boats are usually on the other side of the canal alongside the towpath.

 

The museum area as you can see in the publicity material is nicely restored warehouse (actually rebuilt since a major fire a few years ago) and is constantly being updated..

 

All very well saying "get down there and get involved", why do you assume that I do not do my 'bit' for the waterways. If I was to get involved with those boats, let us just say that I would do things a little differently.

 

Martin, did we meet when I was living on Southam? Granted it was a few years back and Chris probably curses me about the state of the 'lectrics every now and again but it was "now or never" on getting her back to PB especially after the Big Hole issue... I know better these days and ask Gibbo instead!

 

John, I spent a good few years minding those boats, lived on Southam for 3 and a bit years and still have tentative contact with the society. When was the last time you spoke to someone there? Granted to a wine sipping aficionado I'd've looked pretty "odd" (there were mainly repsectable people volunteering there when I spent a lot of time at PB) but you'd never've seen me with a beer can in my hand, I did my drinking indoors; there is, after all, a museum next door. You've got to be a bit "odd" to live in a colander relying on pumps to keep your feet dry, but there's a good argument for exactly that if we're going to maintain what's left: There's a "first", an "oldest" and a "last" at PB and however eccentric the people maintaining them at least they've not given up!

 

Rarely, in my experience, are the boats left on the towpath side, unless Coronation St are trying to drown David Platt again.

 

I spent a good few years helping keep those boats floating, on dock with them, training the people who crew them; having learned myself at FmN's tiller under Chris's tutelage, looking after the yard when Chris got his first holiday in umpteen years & helping out with the re-cycling/charity shop runs to raise funds. So I'm sorry but I have a very good understanding of what goes on there. The fact that you let your judgement of the people that do things there and the environment in which they do them undermine your understanding of what actually happens is a shame really!

 

Most people would do thing differently than Chris, and should you ever have the courtesy to say hello and get chatting you'll probably understand why as well; would "differently" involve breaking them up? It'd take several hundreds of thousands of pounds to do anything other than either raise them (where they'd be even worse off and pretty much unsalvagable as they'd dry out and you wouldn't be able to spile new timbers), or rebuild them. Chris is doing, and has done, what he knows best while being nothing more than a minor inconvenience and an eccentric chap on the water.

 

Oh, did I mention Chris was one of the witnesses who helped bring down the original draft of the '95 Waterways Act?

 

Nuff said!

[gaggle]

I once moored up on the unsafe moorings on the other side of the lift bridge......

 

 

my daughter had just opened the lift bridge when two cars screeched into the adjoining car park sending gravel flying around , she got a very bad fright as what i assume was two policeman jumped from one car so they could confront the occupants of the other car.

as i stated previously further along teenagers were lighting fires and with a boat load of kids i did not really fancy mooring up , we were not under any direct duress but the area did seem to be a bit lively considering it was a SAFE area.

[madrilin]

The books are somewhat imprecise, to say the least.

 

Portland Basin is at the centre of the area to be regarded as safe overnight moorings. The area runs between the road bridges either side of the basin on the Ashton, and as far as the lift Bridge on the Peak Forest Canal.

 

So far as the water point is concerned, as far as I am aware, this is NOT a BW water point. It is provided by Tameside MBC (owners of the Museum and Moorings), and they permit its usage.

 

The nearest BW water points are;

Fairfield Junction (Ashton Canal)

Grove Rd BW Yard (HNC)

Marple BW Yard (Macclesfield Canal)

 

The shortage of BW water points in the area is a pain in the arse both for visitors and moorers.

 

This message refers to several of the mesages above.

 

The water point is provided by TMBC and it's not for public access. The museum have no obligation to allow passing boaters to use it. They do so out of goodwill.

The WCBS boats have permission to moor at Portland Basin. Nobody is living there but we do have a few people who stay overnight to 'boatsit'. There have been several boats burned out in the area over the past year, so it's best to have a presence. We have had a problem recently with kids staying all night on the towpath and lighting fires - when there's nobody at the museum side they climb over and break into the cabins. So, its important that we have someone there.

 

We don't have a lot of boatsitters at the moment. I can only assume that I'm one of the odd looking people referred to. I've not had a (dirty) beer since about 1976 though so it's not me bringing down the tone. A certain person on this forum has, however, referred to me and my friends as 'sad and decrepit looking' and 'odd looking minions'.

 

I have to admit it's been my lot in life to fail to meet the required standard of feminine refinement. If you let me know when you're next coming down Mr O I'll borrow a lipstick.

 

I have no excuse for the way I look other than to say that it was working as a social worker for years that did it to me. The stress was awful. And I'll tell you something else. I looked a lot better before I started digging at that boatyard. We all did.

 

Er....I'd love to know when anyone has seen WCBS boats on the towpath side. I'm there every day and this is a rare occurrence. Chris is also there for a few hours every day. Yes, truly amazing that someone keeps missing him.

 

Thanks to those of you who have supported us!

 

I remain, odd looking

Madrilin

Edited August 28, 2008 by madrilin

[madrilin]

Hobson's & bile out of my system, spleen vented...

 

Probably a fair point about pointing out the danger instead of simply shouting at people.

 

As to your second point, it's a fair debate to ask whether Chris has bitten off more than he can chew, and one that's been had within WCBS a few times, but the sad reality is that said boats would probably all have been broken up by BW had Chris not stepped in, and to my mind even if it's not much of a fighting chance, any chance to save them is better than none, they need to stay somewhere, and they'll be in someone's way wherever that may be.

 

As testimony to Mr Leah I would tell people that he re-planked his first boat, now Lilith, but formely Stuarts and Lloyds number 9, in 18 months with no electric tools whatsoeever, she was out of the water for only a few weeks for the bottoms. There's a cracking photo somewhere of Chris hanging out the side of Lilith a couple of inches above the water line with a hammer in his hand somewhere.

 

He's done a decent job of Forget Me Not, which was the first horse boat motorised at Nursers. Granted, maybe niether of them are Friendship but they're worth something. Then the money dried up and we end up with the situation where the boats are an eyesore, however Chris doggedly tarries on, and is a good way into sorting the heritage yard out, pretty much by hand again since the funding fell through. I believe there's promise of more in the pipeline and WCBS are optimistic of making progress, at least with Hazel.

 

Finally, Niel, I was under the impression that Ellesmere Port had a hand in Raymond's rebuild, or certainly the method in which it was done, maybe I'm wrong as it was in 2001, and there's a lot of beer under the bridge, but we did go down to the 2001 working boat rally (just after Raymond was re-launched) and there were a couple of "you were probably right" conversations with Chris behind the scenes, maybe not the Ellesmere Port minions that were having them though.

Hi Smelly

Thanks for your words.

You're a bit out of date though. Some funding was obtained for the boatyard and it has been excavated - work was done by a paid contractor and WCBS volunteers. We still need to raise money for buildings but as it stands we now have a suitable space for boat re-building and doing repairs.

[madrilin]

If it is their one aim in life to prevent the boats from sinking and thats not the most ambitious target I have ever heard of, they are singularly unsuccessful, I seem to see one of them 'on the bottom' very frequently..

 

At the risking of posting too many messages........I suppose it depends how you define 'frequently'. I went away to check the actual truth. Elton sank a few weeks ago because someone (probably kids) got in over night and separated the batteries from the pumps. (A night when we had no boatsitter) Prior to this the last boat to sink was at the Tameside Canals Festival last year. Not good I know, but in my book this isn't frequent.

 

I really do think there must be two Portland Basins. Or are they putting LSD in the beer in Royton? I wouldn't be surprised. I lived there some years ago and used to thank the Lord I'd studied anthropology.

[mayalld]

This message refers to several of the mesages above.

 

The water point is provided by TMBC and it's not for public access. The museum have no obligation to allow passing boaters to use it. They do so out of goodwill.

The WCBS boats have permission to moor at Portland Basin. Nobody is living there but we do have a few people who stay overnight to 'boatsit'. There have been several boats burned out in the area over the past year, so it's best to have a presence. We have had a problem recently with kids staying all night on the towpath and lighting fires - when there's nobody at the museum side they climb over and break into the cabins. So, its important that we have someone there.

 

We don't have a lot of boatsitters at the moment. I can only assume that I'm one of the odd looking people referred to. I've not had a (dirty) beer since about 1976 though so it's not me bringing down the tone. A certain person on this forum has, however, referred to me and my friends as 'sad and decrepit looking' and 'odd looking minions'.

 

I have to admit it's been my lot in life to fail to meet the required standard of feminine refinement. If you let me know when you're next coming down Mr O I'll borrow a lipstick.

 

I have no excuse for the way I look other than to say that it was working as a social worker for years that did it to me. The stress was awful. And I'll tell you something else. I looked a lot better before I started digging at that boatyard. We all did.

 

Er....I'd love to know when anyone has seen WCBS boats on the towpath side. I'm there every day and this is a rare occurrence. Chris is also there for a few hours every day. Yes, truly amazing that someone keeps missing him.

 

Thanks to those of you who have supported us!

 

I remain, odd looking

Madrilin

 

Very well put!

 

So far as I can see, the vast majority of those who have passed through the area have no issue with the wooden boats, and appreciate that however slow the progress on them, even standing still is better than terminal decay.

 

As somebody who moors nearby, I have no issue with them either.

 

The only reasonable issue that has been raised seem to be that they obstruct the tap. Well, given that this isn't a BW tap, I really don't think that this is a valid complaint.

 

We've had the odd boat pull up alongside at our mooring, and whinge that there is a boat moored on the WP. Well, yes there is, because it isn't a public WP, and given that we pay the water bill for the WP.....

 

my daughter had just opened the lift bridge when two cars screeched into the adjoining car park sending gravel flying around , she got a very bad fright as what i assume was two policeman jumped from one car so they could confront the occupants of the other car.

as i stated previously further along teenagers were lighting fires and with a boat load of kids i did not really fancy mooring up , we were not under any direct duress but the area did seem to be a bit lively considering it was a SAFE area.

 

Yes, it can be a bit lively during the day, but later on into the evening, it gets quieter.

 

TBH, I would always recommend mooring opposite our mooring (between bridges 4 and 3) as being a bit quieter, but we are about 30 minutes short of PB, so you would need to get up half an hour early on the next morning.

[Smelly]

Hi Smelly

Thanks for your words.

You're a bit out of date though. Some funding was obtained for the boatyard and it has been excavated - work was done by a paid contractor and WCBS volunteers. We still need to raise money for buildings but as it stands we now have a suitable space for boat re-building and doing repairs.

 

Sorry, I was harking back to your email but my copy's at work, whereas I'm currently sat on the boat in Stratford (it was Wilmocte yestsreday but the cat's come back now.

 

Don't bother with the lipstick, just get yer bonnet out instead!

 

D

[madrilin]

Sorry, I was harking back to your email but my copy's at work, whereas I'm currently sat on the boat in Stratford (it was Wilmocte yestsreday but the cat's come back now.

 

Don't bother with the lipstick, just get yer bonnet out instead!

 

D

 

Bonnet! Bonnet! Last time I put it on I looked like old Mother Hubbard! Do I look like a bonnet sort of woman? I'm far too busy guzzling special brew and intimidating passing middle class boaters!

[Smelly]

Bonnet! Bonnet! Last time I put it on I looked like old Mother Hubbard! Do I look like a bonnet sort of woman? I'm far too busy guzzling special brew and intimidating passing middle class boaters!

 

Oh Gods... I did warn you about that special brew, that's the one I spilled in Royton...

[Big Ed]

I submitted a small contribution on this topic a year or so ago though I have not been able to find it.. The characters that constantly hang around those boats with a beer can in hand do no credit to themselves or the canal movement in general.. Many members made the assumption that they were 'jolly salt of the earth' restorers of historic boats, singing as they carry out their honest tasks..

 

I live in the flats overlooking portland basin. I've never seen what you describe. There are a few ne'er do wells who are members of the public who hang around at times on the tow path side and sometimes wander over to the wharf during the day. These are discouraged by museum staff and the boaters.

 

You need to get your facts right mate.

Edited September 1, 2008 by NB Alnwick
to correct formatting error

[banjobird]

I submitted a small contribution on this topic a year or so ago though I have not been able to find it.. The characters that constantly hang around those boats with a beer can in hand do no credit to themselves or the canal movement in general.. Many members made the assumption that they were 'jolly salt of the earth' restorers of historic boats, singing as they carry out their honest tasks..

 

In fact those boats have barely changed in the ten or twenty years or so that I have known them, as Gaggle suggests they are on the slow road to total dereliction and the areas on and around the boats resembles a third world slum, why they have not been turfed off by the people who a genuinely attempting to improve the area I don't know.

 

 

Hi John,

I am a member and a volunteer of WCBS

 

Over the last 2 years I have watched and recorded the restoration of these beautiful and historic boats (which may be slow, but is hugely productive all the same).

 

I have an enormous love of 19th and 20th Century British Architecture, Furniture, and Transportation and am a staunch believer in it's preservation for our future generations. I see the WCBS boats as utterly charming and full of promise. I also feel their presence at the Museum (a museum bursting with early 20th Century treasures) as entirely appropriate.

 

I think it's a dreadful shame that people, such as yourself, perhaps feel that preservation is a pointless cause, but your opinion is your own and I respect that. I would, however, like it very much if you could show our Society the same respect.

 

Our members and volunteers range from enthusiastic youngsters (and it is a joy to see the young getting involved in such a project) to retired men and women from all walks of life. The picture you have been painting is simply untrue. I cannot stress that enough. We are hardworking people, devoting much of our free time to the work of preserving some of Britain's Heritage, it pains me to hear such slanderous and offensive comments.

 

I'm utterly mystified as to why you would make such comments on a friendly forum?.

[Chris Pink]

So Mr Orentas

 

Given the ranks of people who have stepped up to say that you are wrong and give the real picture of Portland Basin and WCBS, can we expect an apology?

 

Perhaps a small donation to the WCBS might be in order?

[gaggle]

the people stepping forward to speak against johns views are entitled to do so but they are hardly independent .

i do not see wonderful wooden boats in a state of restoration when i pass , i see a pile of derilict boats that seem to have more and more scrap metal and waste wood added to the top of the pile .

no wonder the worry they be set on fire is there , the jumble resembles a bonfire in the making.

if fire is a worry i would have thought all the removal of all flamable materials would be advisable.

i said before i was under the impression someone was living amongst the mess and wondered what state of mind they would be in to collect such an array of materials.

this description may not coincide with the actual situation but it is the impression that i as an individual passing through percieved , one mans dream is anothers nightmare.

as for people lounging around with beer cans in hand , others as well as john have said undesirable people do and have wondered over to the wharf side of the canal.

if you like old wooden boats good look to you in your search for funds to keep them afloat but dont feel you have the right to ask others who hold different views to apoligise for having those different views.

as for a donation , i would sooner give the undesirables that are talked about a few cans of wife beater.

[madrilin]

as for a donation , i would sooner give the undesirables that are talked about a few cans of wife beater.

 

that last statement says it all to me. lets throw in a crass little comment about domestic violence. Having worked with battered women for some years I don't find this at all amusing.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can have whatever opinion you like about the boats. You're entitled to it. I don't care. We will always disagree.

 

BUT I object strongly to personal comments and slurs made against our volunteers. Thats really what the fuss is about.

[mayalld]

the people stepping forward to speak against johns views are entitled to do so but they are hardly independent .

 

I am independent, as I'm sure our new found WCBS members will vouch.

 

I am not a member of the society.

[madrilin]

the people stepping forward to speak against johns views are entitled to do so but they are hardly independent .

 

hardly independent? I know Smelly and banjobird. No idea who the rest of them are although I think one chap said he'd towed Lilith as a favour or something. He's not a member or regular volunteer or I'd know him.

 

One thing this site has done is put a few people in touch with us. I suppose we should thank you for all the free publicity. (No kidding. Experienced woodworker saw this site and came down this morning asking if he could help!)

Edited August 30, 2008 by madrilin

[mayalld]

hardly independent? I know Smelly and banjobird. No idea who the rest of them are although I think one chap said he'd towed Lilith as a favour or something. He's not a member or regular volunteer or I'd know him.

 

That would be me!

 

Towed Lilith back in 2001, using our previous boat (Forget me Not was out of action for a recycling run, and Chris asked nicely)

 

Also involved in dragging Lilith out of 32E at Marsden, using the Discovery when she jammed solid at about the same time.

 

We moor at Warble, and pass from time to time.