New canalstar Lister engines vrs Betta barrus etc

[oldade]

Hi

 

What do we think of the new Lister canal star engines are they as good as Betta/ Barrus ETC.

 

I would like to fit british in my british narrowboat.

 

I would like an engine that revs a bit slower than the betta etc.

 

Any sergestions.

 

What about the Beeta Tug engine.

Thanks

ADE

[martyn 1]

Hi ade

 

The lister alpha engine range that the canalstar engine is based on has been around since 1989 and is well proven model in both industrial and marine application, They are a good solid engine and will easily provide 8000hrs service as long as maintained properly. after rebuilding many of the 4 cylinder canalstars out of narrowboats unless you are intending in fitting it in a over 60 ft boat or doing alot of river work dont fit a 4 cylinder fit a 3. All of the 4 cylinder one I have rebuilt all suffer with the same coking up problems and bore glazing relating to to light load. If your thinking of a second hand 4 cylinder one ensure it is not an early one (pre 1992) as these suffered from crank failure.

 

You will also hear some people complain about problems with the hydraulic cam followers and starting. in my experience if you maintain it properly you will have no problems, again these issues relate to poor maintenance and light loading. in canal applications and not just related to the canalstar engines they do not work hard enough and this causes all kind of issues, most engines have say a 250hr oil change period and that can take years to do, so irrespective of hrs change the oil anually and use good oil, this will prevent the oil sludging up the oil ways and hence reduce the risk of problems with followers.

 

In my opinion i wouldn't even contemplate the others just for the fact there not british, be it that they are good engines in there own right.

 

In context my above opinion is based on upwards of 42 rebuilds of 3 and 4 cylinder alphas (canalstar).

 

If you need more data on the canalstars I can send it to you also it might be worth talking to peter thompson at Marine engine services in uxbridge as they are the Lister main distributator for the marine engines.

 

martyn

 

 

If you want british dont hesitate.

 

 

I now await the onslaught

Edited April 28, 2008 by martyn 1

[larkshall]

Hi ade

 

The lister alpha engine range that the canalstar engine is based on has been around since 1989 and is well proven model in both industrial and marine application, They are a good solid engine and will easily provide 8000hrs service as long as maintained properly. after rebuilding many of the 4 cylinder canalstars out of narrowboats unless you are intending in fitting it in a over 60 ft boat or doing alot of river work dont fit a 4 cylinder fit a 3. All of the 4 cylinder one I have rebuilt all suffer with the same coking up problems and bore glazing relating to to light load. If your thinking of a second hand 4 cylinder one ensure it is not an early one (pre 1992) as these suffered from crank failure.

 

You will also hear some people complain about problems with the hydraulic cam followers and starting. in my experience if you maintain it properly you will have no problems, again these issues relate to poor maintenance and light loading. in canal applications and not just related to the canalstar engines they do not work hard enough and this causes all kind of issues, most engines have say a 250hr oil change period and that can take years to do, so irrespective of hrs change the oil anually and use good oil, this will prevent the oil sludging up the oil ways and hence reduce the risk of problems with followers.

 

In my opinion i wouldn't even contemplate the others just for the fact there not british, be it that they are good engines in there own right.

 

In context my above opinion is based on upwards of 42 rebuilds of 3 and 4 cylinder alphas (canalstar).

 

If you need more data on the canalstars I can send it to you also it might be worth talking to peter thompson at Marine engine services in uxbridge as they are the Lister main distributator for the marine engines.

 

martyn

 

 

If you want british dont hesitate.

 

 

I know await the onslaught

 

Martyn, this now beggars the question, which modern engine is bes for canals, bit alarmed at the 8000hr bit on canalstar engines.

 

I know I'm contemplating a bukh lpg engine, but I'M curious

[Byeckerslike]

Hi,

 

I would concur with all of Martins comments, I too, felt the same about buying British when we were looking for a NB, we found a Colecraft hull, with a very good self fit out, and also of importance, a Lister Canalstar 4 cylinder 36. The guy who spec'd the boat, knew what he was doing, he had a PRM box fitted with a 3:1 reduction ratio, a 3:1 alternator / crankshaft pulley (To keep the alternator spinning at a decent speed) and a 19" propeller.

The boat is very responsive and soon comes to a complete halt (within it's 57' length), if reverse is engaged.

The Canalstar is just coming up to 1,800 hours running (in 10 years) and I must admit that the engine is a sheer delight. I've noticed a little coolant oozing out of the side of the thermostat housing cover, I guess that the alloy casting has a little porosity in it, I'll take it off next week-end and have the cover double impregnated to seal the porosity. I may have trouble sourcing a gasket seal, but I'll make my own if I have to.

 

I change the oil every 200 hours and it is hardly blackened by the time the 200 hours running time is up.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Byeckerslike

[martyn 1]

Martyn, this now beggars the question, which modern engine is bes for canals, bit alarmed at the 8000hr bit on canalstar engines.

 

I know I'm contemplating a bukh lpg engine, but I'M curious

 

 

Which modern engine is best Is going to be different in everyones opinion, I personally like the canalstars because they are a british engine, and still follow the design ideas that an engine should be overhaulable rather than scrap when its worn out, most Yanmar etc engines are normally completely knackered. unfortunatly that is part of the world we live in and its easier to throw it away. the 8000hr if memory serves right and not wanting to walk to the workshop to check in the manual is the Lister stated time for First major overhaul on a Alpha engine.

 

The Canalstar is just coming up to 1,800 hours running (in 10 years) and I must admit that the engine is a sheer delight. I've noticed a little coolant oozing out of the side of the thermostat housing cover, I guess that the alloy casting has a little porosity in it, I'll take it off next week-end and have the cover double impregnated to seal the porosity. I may have trouble sourcing a gasket seal, but I'll make my own if I have to.

 

 

If you have problems im pretty sure I have both new gasket and a spare thermostat housing cover out in the workshop if you get stuck.

[Byeckerslike]

Which modern engine is best Is going to be different in everyones opinion, I personally like the canalstars because they are a british engine, and still follow the design ideas that an engine should be overhaulable rather than scrap when its worn out, most Yanmar etc engines are normally completely knackered. unfortunatly that is part of the world we live in and its easier to throw it away. the 8000hr if memory serves right and not wanting to walk to the workshop to check in the manual is the Lister stated time for First major overhaul on a Alpha engine.

 

 

 

 

If you have problems im pretty sure I have both new gasket and a spare thermostat housing cover out in the workshop if you get stuck.

Hi Martin, I sure could use that spare thermo housing cover gasket, could you please pm me, with price - including P&P please? I work in the Automotive Engineering trade and I have a good contact for impregnating the porous casting.

 

Many thanks,

 

Rob

[oldade]

Thanks for that.

So for my 57ft narrow boat you would recommend a 3 cylinder.

Is that the 30IDI.

 

I have got a price from Marine engineering services of £4600.

Do you think I could get one cheaper than that ?

Which gearbox

Which prop.

Alternators ?

 

Would it do OK in the rivers ?

 

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

 

Hi ade

 

The lister alpha engine range that the canalstar engine is based on has been around since 1989 and is well proven model in both industrial and marine application, They are a good solid engine and will easily provide 8000hrs service as long as maintained properly. after rebuilding many of the 4 cylinder canalstars out of narrowboats unless you are intending in fitting it in a over 60 ft boat or doing alot of river work dont fit a 4 cylinder fit a 3. All of the 4 cylinder one I have rebuilt all suffer with the same coking up problems and bore glazing relating to to light load. If your thinking of a second hand 4 cylinder one ensure it is not an early one (pre 1992) as these suffered from crank failure.

 

You will also hear some people complain about problems with the hydraulic cam followers and starting. in my experience if you maintain it properly you will have no problems, again these issues relate to poor maintenance and light loading. in canal applications and not just related to the canalstar engines they do not work hard enough and this causes all kind of issues, most engines have say a 250hr oil change period and that can take years to do, so irrespective of hrs change the oil anually and use good oil, this will prevent the oil sludging up the oil ways and hence reduce the risk of problems with followers.

 

In my opinion i wouldn't even contemplate the others just for the fact there not british, be it that they are good engines in there own right.

 

In context my above opinion is based on upwards of 42 rebuilds of 3 and 4 cylinder alphas (canalstar).

 

If you need more data on the canalstars I can send it to you also it might be worth talking to peter thompson at Marine engine services in uxbridge as they are the Lister main distributator for the marine engines.

 

martyn

 

 

If you want british dont hesitate.

 

 

I now await the onslaught

[martyn 1]

Thanks for that.

So for my 57ft narrow boat you would recommend a 3 cylinder.

Is that the 30IDI.

 

I have got a price from Marine engineering services of £4600.

Do you think I could get one cheaper than that ?

Which gearbox

Which prop.

Alternators ?

 

Would it do OK in the rivers ?

 

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

 

I would say a 3 cylinder, Just one thing you need to way up, how much time are you going to spend on a river. if say 10% of the use on a river then 90% of the time its going to be idling down the cut and therfore a 4 is going to be running in the scenario from my previous post which will eventually end with problems. but if you are going to spend say 50/50 cut river mix then go for the 4 as it will get sufficient load on the rivers to keep it clean.

and yes the 3 cylinder is the 30IDI and the 4 is the 40IDI

 

Marine Engine Services (uxbridge) are the UK marine agent for Lister (They build/marinise them, engine built at lister them marinised by them) so I would think going anywhere else is just going to be more because you will be paying the middle mans markup. From the info I have the price they have quoted is the retail, I would try and see if you can get a discount, you might get lucky.

 

Also the info I have states the 30IDI comes with a PRM 150 gearbox, thats just fine as its also fitted to the 40IDI so plenty big enough, as for prop that will depend on weight of boat, etc etc etc.

as for alternators if you go for the 30IDI it comes with a 50amp start and 55amp Domestic alternators as standard but I would go for the optional 110AMP domestic if you intend on running a inverter etc. If you go for the 40IDI it comes with a 70 amp start and 110 amp domestic as standard so would need no changes.

 

Hope this is of help

 

Martyn

[Matthew Dowson]

I've got a Canalstar 36hp 4cyl in my 57ft Nb which I bought in 2006, and its always been very smoky (white) when you give it some hard reverse, people say its down to unburnt fuel entering the system hwhen you quickly open it up. Any suggestions? It's a good way to teach you to go light on the throttle when maneuvering in locks etc. Apart from that its a smooth happy motor. Quite loud, but I'm planning to soundproof the engine hole in the next 12 months.

[oldade]

Thanks

For that.

ADE

 

 

quote name='martyn 1' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:39 PM' post='228970']

I would say a 3 cylinder, Just one thing you need to way up, how much time are you going to spend on a river. if say 10% of the use on a river then 90% of the time its going to be idling down the cut and therfore a 4 is going to be running in the scenario from my previous post which will eventually end with problems. but if you are going to spend say 50/50 cut river mix then go for the 4 as it will get sufficient load on the rivers to keep it clean.

and yes the 3 cylinder is the 30IDI and the 4 is the 40IDI

 

Marine Engine Services (uxbridge) are the UK marine agent for Lister (They build/marinise them, engine built at lister them marinised by them) so I would think going anywhere else is just going to be more because you will be paying the middle mans markup. From the info I have the price they have quoted is the retail, I would try and see if you can get a discount, you might get lucky.

 

Also the info I have states the 30IDI comes with a PRM 150 gearbox, thats just fine as its also fitted to the 40IDI so plenty big enough, as for prop that will depend on weight of boat, etc etc etc.

as for alternators if you go for the 30IDI it comes with a 50amp start and 55amp Domestic alternators as standard but I would go for the optional 110AMP domestic if you intend on running a inverter etc. If you go for the 40IDI it comes with a 70 amp start and 110 amp domestic as standard so would need no changes.

 

Hope this is of help

 

Martyn

[Byeckerslike]

I've got a Canalstar 36hp 4cyl in my 57ft Nb which I bought in 2006, and its always been very smoky (white) when you give it some hard reverse, people say its down to unburnt fuel entering the system hwhen you quickly open it up. Any suggestions? It's a good way to teach you to go light on the throttle when maneuvering in locks etc. Apart from that its a smooth happy motor. Quite loud, but I'm planning to soundproof the engine hole in the next 12 months.

 

Strange,

 

Our NB is a 56' 4" Colecraft hull, built in 1999, the engine (Canalstar 36) has less than 1,800 hours on the tachometer. The engine is as sweet as a nut, and as far I have been able to observe, the engine burns all fuel, we never experience white (or worst still, black smoke) emitting from the exhaust, that is not to say that I have never seen such like, comming out of my crappy FMC Lynx diesel engine!

 

It depends on the set-up of your final drive (propellor, gearbox and alternator drive belt pulley ratio's, but I find the Canalstar 36 a good match to our Colecraft 56.33' hull.

[martyn 1]

I've got a Canalstar 36hp 4cyl in my 57ft Nb which I bought in 2006, and its always been very smoky (white) when you give it some hard reverse, people say its down to unburnt fuel entering the system hwhen you quickly open it up. Any suggestions? It's a good way to teach you to go light on the throttle when maneuvering in locks etc. Apart from that its a smooth happy motor. Quite loud, but I'm planning to soundproof the engine hole in the next 12 months.

 

Strange indeed, People are right to say that the white smoke is unburnt fuel, but I find it a little odd that it only does it in astern, as if it was excess fuel on quick thottle opening then you would get it in fwd as well.

I would expect you to possibly get a little black ish smoke on gear change and throttle opening if say going for ahead to astern hard, to stop in a hurry as the engine will go through a brief period of overload and hence black smoke.

 

What hours has your engine done and does it smoke (white) in general. should possibly smoke a little when cold and clear within say 5 mins. where on the system are you.

[Matthew Dowson]

Strange indeed, People are right to say that the white smoke is unburnt fuel, but I find it a little odd that it only does it in astern, as if it was excess fuel on quick thottle opening then you would get it in fwd as well.

I would expect you to possibly get a little black ish smoke on gear change and throttle opening if say going for ahead to astern hard, to stop in a hurry as the engine will go through a brief period of overload and hence black smoke.

 

What hours has your engine done and does it smoke (white) in general. should possibly smoke a little when cold and clear within say 5 mins. where on the system are you.

 

Not sure on hours, I do perhaps 200 hours a year, but before that it was residential for 6 years, (hull new in 1999) and I estimate the engine is about 15/16 years old. Could be 2000 - 3000 hrs. There's no counter on it that I've missed is there? It does do it lightly when you give progressive ahead increases, goes a bit more blue. I notice the astern more when I'm manouvering as you give it more welly, but it does it ahead under the same use. The manual suggest regular injector checks would help, but I'm no mechanic. I'm on the Leeds Liverpool at Shipley, Bradford. It's a sweet engine, just wish it didn't make me disappear in a cloud of smoke when I give it a blast on the throttle in locks. Matt

[onthecut]

Hi

 

What do we think of the new Lister canal star engines are they as good as Betta/ Barrus ETC.

 

I would like to fit british in my british narrowboat.

 

I would like an engine that revs a bit slower than the betta etc.

 

Any sergestions.

 

What about the Beeta Tug engine.

Thanks

ADE

 

I'd be inclined to go back one generation and look for a nice Lister STW (assuming you want water cooled). Built to an altogether different scale than the Alpha engines and, in my opinion (puts tin hat on) a markedly better bit of kit. Bonus too that a decent used example will leave you with a substantial wedge of change in your pocket.

 

Mike.