Morco hot water heater

[tcox]

Planning to get a Morco hot water heater fitted.

 

Looking at the details, looks as though you need 240v electricity to run it.

 

Says a 50w inverter would do, and looking at Maplin, found one that plugged into a cigarette lighter socket. Is this allowed under Boat safety etc., and would it be satisfactory?

 

Also, is the 35w of electricity it draws constant, or just to get it lit.

 

Many thanks...

[NB Alnwick]

Planning to get a Morco hot water heater fitted.

 

Looking at the details, looks as though you need 240v electricity to run it.

 

Says a 50w inverter would do, and looking at Maplin, found one that plugged into a cigarette lighter socket. Is this allowed under Boat safety etc., and would it be satisfactory?

 

Also, is the 35w of electricity it draws constant, or just to get it lit.

 

Many thanks...

 

There is a Morco model available that does not require a 240v supply because it has Piezo ignition.

This is what I would go for. Keeping things simple means less to go wrong.

[tcox]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Have looked it up on the midland chandlers website - http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/MORCO-D6...ONLY_A1B57.aspx

 

However, it looks as though it is not room-sealed. Is this allowed under BSS regs?

 

Or am I missing a different model that is room-sealed?

 

Many thanks...

[NB Alnwick]

Have looked it up on the midland chandlers website - http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/MORCO-D6...ONLY_A1B57.aspx

 

However, it looks as though it is not room-sealed. Is this allowed under BSS regs?

 

That is what we have on our boat. I don't know about the BSS regs on this - it may not be allowed on a new boat.

[tcox]

Have asked the question on the 'enquiry' form on the BSS website, so will put up what they say.

 

Hope I can use it, looks great.

 

Cheers for the advice...

[PaddingtonBear]

No, they are not allowed on new builds but for the following 'mad' reason - they have to be fitted by a 'competent' person if nothing else for 'common sense' reasons, generally defined as 'Corgi' registered. All to the good you might say BUT 'Corgi' registered fitters are not apparently allowed to fit non-room sealed appliances!! in any event not many are qualified to 'play' with LPG etc. This anomaly is a bit of a chestnut but what, I ask is the status of gas cookers? a non-room sealed device if there ever is one and one that is constantly being fitted/moved etc.

[RobinJ]

No, they are not allowed on new builds but for the following 'mad' reason - they have to be fitted by a 'competent' person if nothing else for 'common sense' reasons, generally defined as 'Corgi' registered. All to the good you might say BUT 'Corgi' registered fitters are not apparently allowed to fit non-room sealed appliances!! in any event not many are qualified to 'play' with LPG etc. This anomaly is a bit of a chestnut but what, I ask is the status of gas cookers? a non-room sealed device if there ever is one and one that is constantly being fitted/moved etc.

I am not aware of anyone who makes a room sealed water heater, only combi type central heating ones, someone else might now better?

My understanding was that you were allowed to replace an existing appliance (non room sealed) but brend new installations were supposed to be room sealed.

When is your BSC due? Is it worth consulting an examiner before you spend money?

[tcox]

Received reply from BSS people this morning.

They concur that only room sealed heaters can be used on new builds. Looking on morco's website, looks as only option is the F-11E, which has a fan assisted flue drawing a constant 35w in 240v. To supply this, I found a cheap inverter that plugs into a cigarette lighter socket - http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/300/a03gw.jpg. However, I was wondering if anyone knew if this would work, and whether it would be safe/allowed under BSS.

 

Many thanks for all the help...

[The Drunken Duck]

Planning to get a Morco hot water heater fitted.

...................

 

You may find this recent topic interesting posted less than a week ago.

 

Morco warning and question

 

Having taken further advice, I decided to forget the Morco and instead install a 1kw immersion heater in the calorifier. My thinking is :- When you're in a Marina you've probably got leccy to heat the water without starting the engine and on the cut you'll probably run the engine each day to cruise or to top up the batteries; then you'll have hot water from running the engine.

Edited April 16, 2008 by The Drunken Duck

[smileypete]

As I understand it non room sealed heaters are allowed, but Corgi installers aren't allowed to fit them.

 

They should be fitted by someone competent to do so.

 

I think BSS/RCD are trying to push people towards:

 

A boat that costs pots of money for those that can afford it.

A boat with a generator on the back deck for the rest of us

 

Edit:

 

The part of the BSS guide relating to gas water heaters can be found here:

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/...Guide_chap8.pdf

 

As far as I can tell it allows the use of non room sealed water heaters.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited April 16, 2008 by smileypete

[alan_fincher]

I'll admit I've been out of touch with things for a while, but did used to keep an eye on what seemed to be the commoner causes of death aboard.

 

I'm sure there must have been some, at least due to poorly installed instantaneous LPG water heaters, but I can't actually remember one amongst all the fatalities from other causes. Solid fuel stoves seem to have killed far more people than the combined efforts of Paloma/Morco/Vaillant, etc.

 

They were used almost exclusively in leisure narrow boats before the widespread introduction of gas and diesel fired heating, including in thousands and thousands of hire boats. I can't remember many hire boaters being killed off by them.

 

In my view they still represent an excellent solution for many people, and I have no qualms whatsoever about living with a properly installed "not room sealed" one.

 

What a shame if you now have to pay double, and have a 240 volt supply to achieve the same result in a new build.

 

Does the same apply to gas fridges then ? THat is, is it OK to install a non room sealed Dometic / Electrolux, provided it's not a new build we are talking about ? I believe the answer is now "yes"

 

This seems daft, unless I'm missing something.

 

Alan

[MoominPapa]

No, they are not allowed on new builds but for the following 'mad' reason - they have to be fitted by a 'competent' person if nothing else for 'common sense' reasons, generally defined as 'Corgi' registered. All to the good you might say BUT 'Corgi' registered fitters are not apparently allowed to fit non-room sealed appliances!! in any event not many are qualified to 'play' with LPG etc. This anomaly is a bit of a chestnut but what, I ask is the status of gas cookers? a non-room sealed device if there ever is one and one that is constantly being fitted/moved etc.

 

IF (big if) the boat regulations are the same as for domestic gas work, then the definition of "competent" is not formalised. It certainly doesn't imply CORGI. In theory, you can fit gas appliances yourself (for you own use, not for other people and for money) and if it conforms to the makers specs, works well, and doesn't blow you up or gas you then you are, by definition, competent. OTOH if it does blow you up, then you've broken the law, as well as being exploded.

 

More practically for DIY, if you can read, understand and follow the manufacturers installation manual and know how to do gas-tighness testing then there's really no magic. Since soldered joints in gas pipework are verboten by the BSS, you don't even need to be able to make those reliably. I'm not advocating that just anybody should be doing gas work willy-nilly, but just because your local Corgi won't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

MP.

[PaddingtonBear]

Totally agree Simon especially the common sense surrounding the comment BUT it is not up to us to define 'competent' in extremis as I am certain as eggs are eggs that any insurance company or other party seeking to wriggle out of their responsibilities will equate competent with Corgi. Not only that but whilst we are both extremely 'competent' especially given the competition, you rather more than me, there is a world out there populated by all sorts of fools most of whom consider themselves 'competent'

 

PB

[Keeping Up]

Perish the thought of the day when 'competent' is defined only as someone who holds a particular piece of paper. It's bound to come eventually but it's not here yet. I've only ever had two gas leaks on my boat, and both were caused by the incompetence of someone holding a piece of paper saying he was "Corgi" registered. Both were cured by myself, and I reckon that proves I'm competent. If the boat explodes next week, that will prove that I'm not.

 

When the BSS riules were changed a few years ago, I needed to find a new way to connect my gas system, one that didn't involve rebuilding the whole boat (as per BW's helpful suggestion that changing my boat from a cruiser stern to a trad would solve the problem!). Once I had devised a soluution, and had obtained a signed paper from the BSS Office (who by then were being very helpful) that the solution fully met all the requirements of the BSS, I discovered that no Corgi engineer would do the work on the grounds thet "there was nothing in the Corgi rules that say it could be done that way". The fact that there was nothing in the rules to say that it couldn't be done that way, was seen as irrelevant. In the end the only solution was to do the work myself, and to get a Corgi-registered surveyor to certify that there was nothing in the installation which contravened the Corgi regulations.

 

Sadly we've already reached the position for domestic electrics, where work can only be done by people who are competent - which is defined as a person who is working for a company which holds a piece of paper saying it is competent. Nothing to do with the competence of the person doing the work, he could be a chimpanzee and it would be legal. But if I were to do the work myself, that would be illegal - despite the fact that the only reason for my current "incompetence" is the fact that I've retired.

 

[rant mode off]

[Peter R]

Allan

 

It's not actually illegal for you to work on your domestic electrical system - it's just that if you do, you need to inform the local authority, who MAY decide to send a 'competent' person round to inspect it. If they chose not to, then I believe your work becomes 'approved' by default.

 

Of course, unless the system in question has already been surveyed, then if you can do the work in a way which makes it indistiguishable from the original then no-one can prove you changed it anyway! (not that I would ever advocate bending the rules!

 

Back on topic - another thread http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4460

 

I also can't see a problem with using a small inverter to provide the 230V, which I would think would only take any power when actually igniting, but I would probably be inclined to 'hard-wire' the inverter via a suitable fuse rather than plug it into a lighter-type socket.

 

Peter