Generator Test

[elessina]

Victron have done some tests on around 20 diesel Generators, varying in size from 3.0Kw to 10Kw in size

 

Since most of us are only interested in compact ones, I have taken some results as shown below:-

 

Generator Make......... Output voltage.........Frequency...... Relative Sound Levels... Comments..................... RPM

Fischer Panda 4000i.... 227v to 230v......... 49.8 to 50.2 hz........... 69................... load tested up to 12Kw......2800

Mastervolt Whisper 3.5....208 to 245v........49 to 52.5hz............... 77...................Did not start 1.8Kw motor.. 3,000

Paguro 4000...................220 to 242v..........50 to 51.5hz.................75...................Did not start 1.8Kw motor... 3000

Northern Lights M673LD2..224 to 233v.......50 to 54.5hz.............66.................... None................................ 1,500

 

Observations:-

All ran the Victron Muli unit, all had very similar fuel consumption figures at same loads

The Mastervolt does not come out very well,

Northern Lights does well, but but highest hz (54.5) and not so compact as the others

The Fisher Panda looks best amongst the compact models, it can also be run at 2000rpm and can have auto start

 

You can see the test here here then click on second bullet point down... presentation used... victron energy

 

Ian

Elessina

Edited March 11, 2008 by elessina

[NB Willawaw]

Interesting report - thanks for the link.

 

Actually the Mastervolt 3.5 didn't come out too well; the larger Mastervolt 6000 Ultra model fared better.

 

The 1.8kW motor start test is a bit misleading on inland waterways and few inland boats have the need to start such a large motor or

inductive load at mains voltages.

[blackrose]

Generator Make......... Output voltage.........Frequency...... Relative Sound Levels... Comments..................... RPM

Fischer Panda 4000i.... 227v to 230v......... 49.8 to 50.2 hz........... 69................... load tested up to 12Kw......2800

Mastervolt Whisper 3.5....208 to 245v........49 to 52.5hz............... 77...................Did not start 1.8Kw motor.. 3,000

Paguro 4000...................220 to 242v..........50 to 51.5hz.................75...................Did not start 1.8Kw motor... 3000

Northern Lights M673LD2..224 to 233v.......50 to 54.5hz.............66.................... None................................ 1,500

 

What does this mean? They couldn't get the generator started? I'm not surprised they didn't do well in the tests

[elessina]

What does this mean? They couldn't get the generator started? I'm not surprised they didn't do well in the tests

I believe it means that, with generator running, a 1.8Kw elecrtric motor was switched on, this overloaded the generator, cutting it out. A 1.8Kw electric motor, needs more than 1.8Kw on start up.

Ian

[blackrose]

I believe it means that, with generator running, a 1.8Kw elecrtric motor was switched on, this overloaded the generator, cutting it out. A 1.8Kw electric motor, needs more than 1.8Kw on start up.

Ian

 

A 3.5kw & 4kw generator couldn't run a 1.8kw appliance? How much power does a 1.8kw motor need on start up?

Edited March 12, 2008 by blackrose

[elessina]

A 3.5kw & 4kw generator couldn't run a 1.8kw appliance? How much power does a 1.8kw motor need on start up?

I believe it is often double, so 3.6Kw required, just for a couple of seconds.

Ian

[Gibbo]

Victron and Mastervolt are direct competitors in exactly the same markets.

 

If Ford did a test on a Vauxhall and published the results do you think anyone would take any notice?

 

Of course the Mastervolt came out badly !

 

Typical start up current for a universal motor is 7 to 10 times the running current. So a 1.8kW motor could actually need close to 18kW (very briefly) to start it.

 

This doesn't happen in practice with a generator because the voltage collapses under the heavy load (thus reducing the power) but a 1.8kW motor would certainly require in excess of 7kW or so to start up.

 

Gibbo

Edited March 13, 2008 by Gibbo

[PaddingtonBear]

Regardless of all the techie stuff - which no one but the superstars seem to understand (and even then it seems to bring about world war three) surely what most people do is take a decision based upon 'every day' advice and the experience of others in similar circumstances. For what it is worth the BBC have used Fischer Panda generators for some years as standby generators. Should anyone be interested in finding out more (esp. north of Watford) ring Ian Crompton 07831 841108 or 01928 787333. Usual disclaimers apply.

[Gary Peacock]

I think the one thing that is worth noting with that test is they were all proper "marine" generators not any of the awful inland waterways cobbled together things.

[Yoda]

Regardless of all the techie stuff - which no one but the superstars seem to understand (and even then it seems to bring about world war three) surely what most people do is take a decision based upon 'every day' advice and the experience of others in similar circumstances. For what it is worth the BBC have used Fischer Panda generators for some years as standby generators. Should anyone be interested in finding out more (esp. north of Watford) ring Ian Crompton 07831 841108 or 01928 787333. Usual disclaimers apply.

 

They appear to be more frequency stable than the others. Maybe this is the reason for the above.

 

Frankly anyone considering anything other than a diesel geny is wasting their money. For a livaboard, the generator must be frequency stable, deliver 230 volts all the way up to its maximum output. The output should be between 100 to 150% of the maximum power usage required. That will mean that it copes with the worst situation. It should also have remote start and have its systems connected to the boats systems. That will produce hot water for nothing and run diesel from the main tank.

[Eastern]

They appear to be more frequency stable than the others. Maybe this is the reason for the above.

 

Frankly anyone considering anything other than a diesel geny is wasting their money. For a livaboard, the generator must be frequency stable, deliver 230 volts all the way up to its maximum output. The output should be between 100 to 150% of the maximum power usage required. That will mean that it copes with the worst situation. It should also have remote start and have its systems connected to the boats systems. That will produce hot water for nothing and run diesel from the main tank.

 

Totally agree. Except that it doesn't have to be an ac geny. Fischer Panda also make a 12v and 24v dc geny, which I prefer as the speed of the geny can be varied as the batteries are charged. Ac loads can be supplied through an inverter.

Peachment can supply a directly coupled generator (dc or ac) to their Nanni propulsion engines - no drive belts and alternators - as it is run off the crankshaft. This may be an option to me if it will be possible to claim the fuel used in the 'red' diesel tax bracket.

[chris w]

Totally agree. Except that it doesn't have to be an ac geny. Fischer Panda also make a 12v and 24v dc geny, which I prefer as the speed of the geny can be varied as the batteries are charged.

 

I would reconsider buying a F/P 12v generator. The charging current is over 200A at maximum. You need to be charging at maybe 50A or so. How fine would the control be over the current?

 

There is also no mention of multistage charging. It will become a PITA if you have to keep going on deck to tweak the throttle in order to increase or decrease the current in order to get the correct charging profile. Buy an AC generator and plug a multistage charger into it. Much simpler.

 

Chris

Edited March 15, 2008 by chris w

[T.A]

Totally agree. Except that it doesn't have to be an ac geny. Fischer Panda also make a 12v and 24v dc geny, which I prefer as the speed of the geny can be varied as the batteries are charged. Ac loads can be supplied through an inverter.

Peachment can supply a directly coupled generator (dc or ac) to their Nanni propulsion engines - no drive belts and alternators - as it is run off the crankshaft. This may be an option to me if it will be possible to claim the fuel used in the 'red' diesel tax bracket.

I liked the idea of the directly coupled generator, I have a nanni engine so spoke to A R Peachment cost of unit £3760 and then installation, a bit expensive for running a hair drier and microwave? Oh b....r back to the drawing board! Are there any other advantages here I am missing?

[elessina]

I would reconsider buying a F/P 12v generator. The charging current is over 200A at maximum. You need to be charging at maybe 50A or so. How fine would the control be over the current?

 

There is also no mention of multistage charging. It will become a PITA if you have to keep going on deck to tweak the throttle in order to increase or decrease the current in order to get the correct charging profile. Buy an AC generator and plug a multistage charger into it. Much simpler.

 

Chris

 

Also look at the price, Fischer Pandas 3.2Kw 12v DC unit sells for around £8,000. Their 3.8Kw AC unit is around £4,000

Ian

[Simon R]

I think the one thing that is worth noting with that test is they were all proper "marine" generators not any of the awful inland waterways cobbled together things.

 

These look seriously marine;

 

Polar Power

 

but like most DC gensets very expensive. Does anyone have any experience of them?

 

Simon

[elessina]

These look seriously marine;

 

Polar Power

 

but like most DC gensets very expensive. Does anyone have any experience of them?

 

Simon

Interesting, $8,502 plus $1,843 for the sound enlosure at 2005 prices,direct from USA. Rather noisy. with a noise level of 70 to 75 Dba (compared to 54 Dba of the Fischer Panda AC unit).

I could not see sound enclosure size, but looks on the large size (compared to Fischer Pandas 520x370x520)

Ian

[blackrose]

Interesting, $8,502 plus $1,843 for the sound enlosure at 2005 prices,direct from USA. Rather noisy. with a noise level of 70 to 75 Dba (compared to 54 Dba of the Fischer Panda AC unit).

I could not see sound enclosure size, but looks on the large size (compared to Fischer Pandas 520x370x520)

Ian

 

Remember that anything like that imported directly from the US will be subject to import duties.