Rev. counter from alternator

[PaddingtonBear]

Hi all techies, well really only Chris W

 

I have a CEN (as supplied by Russell Newbery) marine alternator and I would like to use it to run a rev. counter as you appear to be able to from 'Lucas' type alternators. What info. would you need to know to explain to me how to achieve this?. I am an idiot and if the explanation requires going to Maplins (although I do quite often) and talking to spotty young people or measuring mille amps with a clamp meter perhaps you could tell me how to do it mechanically? Does anyone know of a good source of a 'nice' large vintage type rev. counter for a slow revving engine?

Edited December 8, 2007 by PaddingtonBear

[Endeavour]

Hi all techies, well really only Chris W

 

I have a CEN (as supplied by Russell Newbery) marine alternator and I would like to use it to run a rev. counter as you appear to be able to from 'Lucas' type alternators. What info. would you need to know to explain to me how to achieve this?. I am an idiot and if the explanation requires going to Maplins (although I do quite often) and talking to spotty young people or measuring mille amps with a clamp meter perhaps you could tell me how to do it mechanically? Does anyone know of a good source of a 'nice' large vintage type rev. counter for a slow revving engine?

 

Probably not the cheapest solution?

 

http://www.russellnewbery.co.uk/instruments.html

[PaddingtonBear]

Told you I was an idiot - I looked at the site to get the make of the alternator and didn't think to check further. Cost is not the arbiter as I have often said on this forum and in the end trying to do things on the cheap always costs you more in the long run (unless you are Carl!!). Value on the other hand is an arbiter - price, cost and value are often stupidly confused. For good examples of enormous cost but fantastic value see Warrior Woman's National article in Canal Boat and compare this with the struggles with their engine of the good folk on 'Hadar',appearing to pay twice for a good result (hopefully)

[NB Alnwick]

Our approach was to have minimal instrumentation - so all we have is an ammeter to measure the charge or drain on the batteries, a temperature gauge, two switches to isolate the battery banks and a starter button. We used a hand held electronic rev-counter (which works by the light from a strip of reflective tape on the flywheel) to get our initial settings so that we now know what rpm is produced at different positions of the regulator handle.

[carlt]

Told you I was an idiot - I looked at the site to get the make of the alternator and didn't think to check further. Cost is not the arbiter as I have often said on this forum and in the end trying to do things on the cheap always costs you more in the long run (unless you are Carl!!).

Your constant jibes aren't funny, PB, and I don't know why you're picking on me. I'm not the only forum member who has an eye for a bargain.

 

Edited to say: But back on topic...If I wanted a rev counter I would definitely go for a new, warrantied, compatible instrument. By the time I'd given the cheap, 2nd hand unit to someone to recalibrate and restore, it would probably cost more and , being stingy I'm aware of the poor value in a bodge.

Edited December 8, 2007 by carlt

[John Orentas]

This BBC type attitude that being stupid is some sort of virtue irritates the hell out of me.. "I don't understand machines and things".

 

There are constant topics on this very subject, why didn't you use the search facility and it isn't true that all Lucas alternator will drive a rev-counter. As you seem to be hypnotised by one individual you would be better waiting for him. Better still why not send him a PM so not to inflict it on the rest of us.

Edited December 8, 2007 by John Orentas

[chris w]

As you seem to be hypnotised by one individual you would be better waiting for him. Better still why not send him a PM so not to inflict it on the rest of us.

 

Ah...... John............. you're not jealous are you? I'm sure that someone will want your advice one day darling.

[PaddingtonBear]

Sorry, my jibes will cease forthwith. They were meant to reflect the fact that there seems to be a 'mafia' on this (and other) forums who seem to know everything or at least know a man who does. This is exclusive attitude is I find extremely intimidatetary and is an impediment to those on the outside 'getting to know things'. This attitude, probably perceived, is not apparent in either Chris W or Gibbo(who seems to have disappeared) who share their advice and knowledge openl

[Yoda]

Sorry, my jibes will cease forthwith. They were meant to reflect the fact that there seems to be a 'mafia' on this (and other) forums who seem to know everything or at least know a man who does. This is exclusive attitude is I find extremely intimidatetary and is an impediment to those on the outside 'getting to know things'. This attitude, probably perceived, is not apparent in either Chris W or Gibbo(who seems to have disappeared) who share their advice and knowledge openl

 

You are a new boy.

[chris w]

[carlt]

Sorry, my jibes will cease forthwith. They were meant to reflect the fact that there seems to be a 'mafia' on this (and other) forums who seem to know everything or at least know a man who does. This is exclusive attitude is I find extremely intimidatetary and is an impediment to those on the outside 'getting to know things'. This attitude, probably perceived, is not apparent in either Chris W or Gibbo(who seems to have disappeared) who share their advice and knowledge openl

I don't think I've ever not given advice, where I could, openly. If I know a man who knows more than me I'll pass on his name (more than once I've suggested a marine engineer, a surveyor and fender maker who, after 24+ years on canals have excelled, where others haven't).

 

As a former boat fitter I even travelled 50 miles to cast a professional eye over a forum member's potential purchase, for no charge. I've still yet to meet the person but I imagine there's a beer in the barrel, waiting for me. (edited to say: or a cartridge, if I got it completely wrong!)

 

We may well be opinionated, argumentative and (in my case) always right but I don't think many of the members are here to deliberately cause trouble or upset anyone. The ones that are usually get bored and wander off to disrupt another, completely unrelated, forum.

Edited December 8, 2007 by carlt

[Sir Nibble]

it isn't true that all Lucas alternator will drive a rev-counter.

Name me one that won't and I'll eat it!

 

Paddington, I have never heard of a CEN alternator so it won't be easy to help, but. You need to find a tap into the alternators stator winding upstream of the diodes, look for a terminal marked "N" or "W".

In the absence of either you will need to expose the guts of the thing and solder a lead onto any one of the phase leads connecting the stator to the diodes. I may be able to be more specific if you can post a pic of the unit, most of these unusual makes turn out to be badge engineered from more common units.

[PaddingtonBear]

Thank you Snibble, sorry to miss you off my 'hit parade' CEN alternators are American and supplied to the American Navy and Coast Guard. They are supplied as OE on the new RN Engines (no I have not got one) and can be supplied by RN to fit most engines I believe. They are expensive and they whine a bit under load but they work fantastically well and keep my 600ah of batteries seemingly fully charged (how do I know?) with very, very little effort. I would recommend anyone seriously considering changing their alternator should talk to Allister at RN (provided you have a few hours!)

 

The point of my previous post much critisised by John is well made by you kind remarks; I don't know what a stator is,nor how to tap it , nor what diodes are nor what phase leads are. Perhaps I should leave well alone!! and carry on as Alnwick advises.

[Yoda]

Hi all techies, well really only Chris W

 

I have a CEN (as supplied by Russell Newbery) marine alternator and I would like to use it to run a rev. counter as you appear to be able to from 'Lucas' type alternators. What info. would you need to know to explain to me how to achieve this?. I am an idiot and if the explanation requires going to Maplins (although I do quite often) and talking to spotty young people or measuring mille amps with a clamp meter perhaps you could tell me how to do it mechanically? Does anyone know of a good source of a 'nice' large vintage type rev. counter for a slow revving engine?

 

Now that you have everyone going, why do you want a tacho/rev counter?

[PaddingtonBear]

I thought it would be nice - all part of boys and toys syndrome. Semi-seriously, I want to see how slow I can get my engine to run so that I can shut up the Gardner and Kelvin poseurs although I won't be able to beat the good folk on Alnwick.

Edited December 8, 2007 by PaddingtonBear

[carlt]

I thought it would be nice - all part of boys and toys syndrome. Semi-seriously, I want to see how slow I can get my engine to run so that I can shut up the Gardner and Kelvin poseurs although I won't be able to beat the good folk on Alnwick.

Stopwatch and counting out in your head will do, if you want to beat an Armstrong Siddelley AS3.

[PaddingtonBear]

I wouldn't dare challenge you Carl, I'd be on a certain looser. I am a coward and only want to try an beat those who I know I can beat.

[Sir Nibble]

I believe I have a mental picture of the unit you mean, they also appear marked "Balmar" if I am not mistaken. Look for terminals marked P R W or STA. I will be astonished if one of them is not there, probably R.

[Timleech]

I thought it would be nice - all part of boys and toys syndrome. Semi-seriously, I want to see how slow I can get my engine to run so that I can shut up the Gardner and Kelvin poseurs although I won't be able to beat the good folk on Alnwick.

 

 

http://www.ceniehoff.com/

 

I see they have an office in Preston, maybe try asking them?

 

Tim

[Chris Pink]

Value on the other hand is an arbiter - price, cost and value are often stupidly confused. For good examples of enormous cost but fantastic value see Warrior Woman's National article in Canal Boat and compare this with the struggles with their engine of the good folk on 'Hadar',appearing to pay twice for a good result (hopefully)

 

What? Where?

[PaddingtonBear]

What? Where?

A major feature in December issue 'Canal Boat' entitled 'A National Treasure'

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help and sorry for any offence I am just insecure and a pretty useless

Edited December 10, 2007 by PaddingtonBear

[carlt]

I wouldn't dare challenge you Carl, I'd be on a certain looser. I am a coward and only want to try an beat those who I know I can beat.

I'm not too sure. I'd have thought an RN could get down to a couple of beats a second?

[PaddingtonBear]

It is not an RN(nor a Gardner nor a Kelvin nor....)and in any event I could not stand the aggro virtual or not in trying.

[carlt]

It is not an RN(nor a Gardner nor a Kelvin nor....)and in any event I could not stand the aggro virtual or not in trying.

I don't understand. Aggro? I think you're getting me mixed up with someone who takes life seriously.

[Sir Nibble]

I cannot concieve of an alternator which would be impossible to get a speed signal out of, but an actual instrument to measure the sort of speeds you are interested in will be difficult to find. You will, will you not, require a tacho that tops out not far above, what, 1200rpm?