Marine composting toilet

[mickspangle]

In the more conventional world of composting toilets, the big divide has always seemed to be whether to have a urine separating one or not, and to my mind this is the first one aimed at the marine market that seems to offer this.

 

I spent about 2 years trying to get an Envirolet to work on a narrowboat, which ultimately didn't work out because it couldn't evaporate the liquids well enough (despite assurances from the chandlery that it would).

 

What I did find though was that the quality of the compost was very good indeed, but that it took a bit of effort to manage it with peat, cocoa shells, compost accelerator, pH adjustment etc. - it's not a fit and forget solution it's a bit like gardening!

 

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of regularly pouring wee into the canal. As far as I am aware it is probably an offence to do so, although this is probably because the Environment Agency doesn't differentiate between sewage and it's individual constituents - so, it's either off to the Elsan with your 8-litre bucket, or sneaking out at night...

 

Having said that, I think the most successful composters are probably urine separation type ones, so this could prove a better bet than the Envirolet as it doesn't need the area for evaporation. I would have expected to see some sort of venting system though.

 

I'll be interested to hear if anyone does get one, and how they get on, but after a rather expensive experiment last time, I'm sticking with the cassette for now.

 

If anyone is really into the design science behind all of this, I can recommend downloading the Humanure Handbook (can't remember the link) it's a very comprehensive book on all aspects of composting your own waste!

[Canal Shop Man]

In the meantime, the Airhead had become virtually unobtainable. Not sure why, but we knew several people who wanted to buy one and simply couldn't get ahold of them. One of our friends, a marine equipment dealer, decided to solve the supply problem by designing and manufacturing a new and improved version - enter Nature's Head.

 

The Airhead bacame unobtainable over here mainly 'cos virtually no-one bought one. This is an Airhead copy, pure and simple - if I'm wrong, tell me what is new and improved!

 

For storage prior to disposal, something like a 5-gallon pail with a few holes punched in the lid, or a proper composting bin would be ideal. A 5-gallon pail, tucked in a locker or kept somewhere ashore, will accommodate a good deal of compost until time for emptying (the waste composts down to approximately 10% of its initial volume).

 

I just love the idea of buckets of compost spread around your boat!

The Envirolet may be big, but it doesn't require extra buckets or containers of urine. I'd rather keep all my compost in one place!

 

Ps Mickspangle - the Envirolet separates liquids from solids and normally evaporates off all liquid, so perhaps you were doing something wrong . . .

[simon gray]

when we were getting our new boat for liveaboard earlier this year we did consider the composting toilet option, on account of considering emptying the portapotti every other day is ok as it goes, but would rather not have the hassle - especially when it's got to the day after the day after, it's getting full, & it's still hurling with rain outside !

 

after having conversation with various people who know about permaculture their opinion was that on a boat it's not really realistic anyway, but what was putting us off the idea already was the cost.

 

i see this one still retails at £575, which to my mind is waaaay more money than i would want to spend on a toilet - for that price i'd expect a built-in bidet & dryer into the bargain !

[Alastair]

£575 is a near bargain, compared with the £1000 or so of the Biolet.

 

We have a biolet, currently sitting in a shed. It works for for 2 people full-time. More than that is a serious problem (hence it sitting in shed).

 

It required a lot of managing, as MickSpangle found out with the Envirolet.

[Bones]

I rather like the sound of these, and would be interested to hear peoples experience of them. Unfortunately I don't have 600pounds to spend on something that might not be fantastically wonderful or suited to my bathroom. Wouldn't it be good if we could have them out on review!

[Marge the Barge]

I rather like the sound of these, and would be interested to hear peoples experience of them. Unfortunately I don't have 600pounds to spend on something that might not be fantastically wonderful or suited to my bathroom. Wouldn't it be good if we could have them out on review!

 

Hello,

Chris and I had a Sun-Mar on my boat before we got Baldock.

It was an Excel tweeked to my specification and marinised.

We are going to be doing alterations to Baldock soon which will entail removing a huge poo tank and we are seriously

looking at composting again.

When you have a composting toilet you have to manage it and this involves educating visitors in its correct use ie with the Sun-Mar not to rotate the drum every time you p.

All the time we used it we did not get any liquid run off and if we had have done it can be used as a liquid fertiliser (watered down as it is highly concentrated)

Carbon and zeaolite filter in the vent stack prevents any external smells and of course there is no smell inside the boat, unlike our dump thro pump out.

Seating position is comfy for those who tend to read the newspaper

[NB Willawaw]

Mick,

 

Did you utilise the AC mains connection and heater which is designed to evaporate the liquids ??

As I understand it, the Envirolet which doesn't use the heater needs the liquids to be drained off ???

 

We have a conventional pump out toilet but an electric boat that I'm involved with, called Harvest is having a Sunmar unit (supplied not fitted yet),

but it will need to have a constant 12V and AC supply while the boat is occupied.

 

 

In the more conventional world of composting toilets, the big divide has always seemed to be whether to have a urine separating one or not, and to my mind this is the first one aimed at the marine market that seems to offer this.

 

I spent about 2 years trying to get an Envirolet to work on a narrowboat, which ultimately didn't work out because it couldn't evaporate the liquids well enough (despite assurances from the chandlery that it would).

 

What I did find though was that the quality of the compost was very good indeed, but that it took a bit of effort to manage it with peat, cocoa shells, compost accelerator, pH adjustment etc. - it's not a fit and forget solution it's a bit like gardening!

 

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of regularly pouring wee into the canal. As far as I am aware it is probably an offence to do so, although this is probably because the Environment Agency doesn't differentiate between sewage and it's individual constituents - so, it's either off to the Elsan with your 8-litre bucket, or sneaking out at night...

 

Having said that, I think the most successful composters are probably urine separation type ones, so this could prove a better bet than the Envirolet as it doesn't need the area for evaporation. I would have expected to see some sort of venting system though.

 

I'll be interested to hear if anyone does get one, and how they get on, but after a rather expensive experiment last time, I'm sticking with the cassette for now.

 

If anyone is really into the design science behind all of this, I can recommend downloading the Humanure Handbook (can't remember the link) it's a very comprehensive book on all aspects of composting your own waste!

Edited December 15, 2007 by NB Willawaw

[mickspangle]

Thanks for the comments re: the envirolet.

 

To provide a bit more backround to my decision to ditch it,I bought the 12V DC model from a well known Chandlery. I was expressly told that this would be the most suitable model for 2 full time liveaboards. I was also told that I would not need to use the drain tube, as the 2 fans would evaporate everything.

 

In use, it would not drain the liquid. Further, the seals were not designed to be watertight, so once the liquid reached a certain height, it started to weep through some of the seals. Step 1 to try and remedy this was to put an extra fan in (as sold by Envirolet) to put in the flue. This didn't work, so step 2 was to raise the toilet up and put a boxed radiator underneath, plumbed into the central heating to help evaporation (and help replace the heat being sucked out of the bathroom).

 

This didn't work either, so I installed a drain tap. This kind of worked, although after a month or two of draining 5-10 litres a fortnight of liquid I decided that this was actually much worse than a portapotti. The liquid was not urine - it was a heavy dark brown ammoniacal liquid that stunk out the bathroom whenever I was draining it.

 

In fairness, Envirolet in Canada were always helpful but always maintained they would never recommend installing it without a permanent gravity drain - not easy on a boat when the toilet floor is below the waterline.

 

I'm not trying to be negative about them all - just a cautionary tale really, based on 2 years experience and poor sales advice.

[NB Willawaw]

Thanks Mick.

From what I've learnt, you needed the heater. Sounds like you were mis-sold.

[Marge the Barge]

Thanks Mick.

From what I've learnt, you needed the heater. Sounds like you were mis-sold.

 

 

With the Sun-Mar we only switched the AC heater on when we were boating just to give the compost in the

bottom tray a bit of heat.

The art is in the management of the compost hence we did not have excess liquid run off.

We used a mixture of Irish Moss Peat and softwood shavings (must not use hardwood as it is not absorbent).

[pagan witch]

I suspect the reaon the elsan was blocked was down to someone doing a self-pump out into it. I can't see any other reason it would be blocked.

 

Just a tad unfair I feel - as someone who's previous job was un-blocking sewers for Severn Trent all kinds of things block sewers but it doesn't often seem to be sewarage. Nornally something 'foreign' has got into the pipe and formed the basis of a block - in the case of Lady Muck's elsan it was probably the lid off of a cassette unit.

 

Even non macerating toilets tend to have not much more than a soft sludge in the tank after anything more than a day or two so not much chance of sewerage itself causing the block.

 

BWB have told me I can self pump out to their elsan (so long as it is on mains sewer) as I have a macerating toilet and pump through a 1 1/2 inch hose. The chances of anything getting through that combination and still blocking up a 4 inch drain are nil.

 

Strangely in normal sewer systems the fat from washing machine powders / liquids seems to be the biggest cause of blocks. Goes into the drain in a nice warm liquid suspension then gets cold and coagulates. Evidence of this can be found in most washing machine pwder drawers.

[Eastern]

Just a tad unfair I feel - as someone who's previous job was un-blocking sewers for Severn Trent all kinds of things block sewers but it doesn't often seem to be sewarage. Nornally something 'foreign' has got into the pipe and formed the basis of a block - in the case of Lady Muck's elsan it was probably the lid off of a cassette unit.

 

Even non macerating toilets tend to have not much more than a soft sludge in the tank after anything more than a day or two so not much chance of sewerage itself causing the block.

 

BWB have told me I can self pump out to their elsan (so long as it is on mains sewer) as I have a macerating toilet and pump through a 1 1/2 inch hose. The chances of anything getting through that combination and still blocking up a 4 inch drain are nil.

 

Strangely in normal sewer systems the fat from washing machine powders / liquids seems to be the biggest cause of blocks. Goes into the drain in a nice warm liquid suspension then gets cold and coagulates. Evidence of this can be found in most washing machine pwder drawers.

 

Hi Pagan,

I would agree with you about fat blocking waste pipes, however most of this comes from washing dishes etc, when as you say the warm liquid fat coagulates on cooling (yuck).

I don't see how you imagine that this comes from washing machines, and how would the waste water flow through the soap powder dispenser?

[Christine]

 

I just came across this and thought of Bones Bumper Dumper

[Boaty Jo]

 

I just came across this and thought of Bones Bumper Dumper

 

Need to watch that you dont get your stern gland tangled up with the prop in a boating application! Phwoor!

[bottle]

This

 

 

reminds me of Bones