Webast or Eberspacher?

[Big Steve]

I would like to fit a water heater in my boat, ( to feed a calorifyer and radiators) but don't want to spend a fortune without getting comments from any one with experience of them. Which is the best, and why?

Can they be fitted in cabins? The webasto site says they cannot, but as they are room sealed why not? Which has the best after sales and support?

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[BigRoj]

BlueStringPudding may have something to say about Eberspachers, with all the fun they had with theirs.

 

One thing you need to ask yourself though is do you need it in diesel or gas? You will have a lot more choice, I think, with a gas set up, and I believe them to be a bit more reliable.

 

I am in the market myself for a gas water heater, so have been looking at Morco and Rinnai units, simply for cost more than anything.

 

There are others on here with a lot more experience than me with these things, I can only go on my own findings, having an Eberspacher blown air thing (diesel) which works when it feels like it. I have also had a petrol Ebers..... as well, and that worked better than the diesel one.

[chris w]

Gas heaters like the Alde are expensive to run as compared to diesel heaters even once the price of diesel rises.

 

Ebers seem to have been sleighted on here many times and seem to dislike running on red diesel (coking-up issues). I have a Webasto and it runs perfectly, heating 3 rads and a 60l calorifier.

 

Chris

[Travis]

Steve,

 

we've a Kabola E5 diesel boiler fitted.

 

It doesn't need any electricity to run, hot water circulation occurs naturally, and no problems with low battery power tripping things out.

 

It runs on the roughest red diesel, (believe me there is some of it out there) and can be converted to run on domestic heaing oil.

 

Downside? It needs decoking ever couple of months or so, (I can do this in around half an hour). If it turns colder quickly it can take a while to heat up quicklike.

 

We're sat here on a bally cold night and we're snug as bugs, and this little boiler is heating a boat 57'x12' boat. Marvellous....

 

Andy.

[blackrose]

I have an erberspacher and it has run fine (touch wood) for over 2 years. However, if I were making the choice again I would go for a Webasto due to all the negative experiences & comments about erbers I have read here.

[pagan witch]

We have an Ebby that does a great job but due to it's age has had a few problems. A recent need to replace the ECU (Brain) resulted in a sharp intake of breath but other than that it has been a simple de-coke job and replace the glow pin a couple of times a year. This may seeme xcessive until you consider that we are ressidential and the Ebby is our main source of heat and hot water so runsn for at least 3 hours a day in summer and 6 hours a day in winter.

 

I know they take a slating on here but I think that is due to a) there being so many out there there will be more that break down and we run them on rough diesel - Ebby recommend a fuel additive called 'Fuel Set' which we now use.

 

It is worth remembering that Ebby have the commercial vehicle market for lorry night heaters about sewn up and they do not have problems. From this I deduce that most Ebby problems are fuel based.

 

I wonder if when we lose 'boating diesel' marinas might actually start stocking some decent stuff ?

[Big John]

Adding to a balance:

 

Our Webasto, just over a year old, recently died. Taking it to the nearest service agent, a boat hire company, they diagnosed the burner unit being coked up as the problem. The new unit cost £164, plus labour. The agent checked if Webasto would replace it under the guarantee, but they class it as a consumable! The hire fleet replace their burners every year automatically to prevent problems!

 

Have we been done?

 

BTW for anyone having a heater installed, I suggest a stop valve being fitted between the header tank and the unit, to prevent a mess in the bilge from the antifreeze solution when servicing. I'll be fitting one next summer.

 

Also I would not recommend installing a Webasto in a cabin - put it as far away as possible to deaden the tick.

[Gary Peacock]

There isn't a lot to pick in them really!

 

Eberspacher miss managed the fuel oil problems and didn't do themselves any favours their closed shop policy on service providers didn't help either but they have recently reduced their grip on the service side of things and provided training for those boat builder and suppliers interested in installing servicing for free. This should reduce to some extent the costs associated in getting Eberspachers serviced etc.

 

At the end of the day very few of these heating systems are designed to be truly domestic central heating systems and you have to bare this in mind regardless of manufacturer.

 

If space permits then a standard domestic central heating style burner based system will be far superior but the costs will be greater too.

[Boot wharf man]

I don't know a lot about diesel heating but my boss (owner of Measham Boats) prefers to fit webasto over ebers purley because of the troubles he has had with reliability. Also a a bloke who sometimes works for him who specialises in servicing diesel heaters in boats agrees fully and finds them much harder to work on.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Boot wharf man

[blackrose]

We have an Ebby that does a great job but due to it's age has had a few problems. A recent need to replace the ECU (Brain) resulted in a sharp intake of breath but other than that it has been a simple de-coke job and replace the glow pin a couple of times a year. This may seeme xcessive until you consider that we are ressidential and the Ebby is our main source of heat and hot water so runsn for at least 3 hours a day in summer and 6 hours a day in winter.I know they take a slating on here but I think that is due to a) there being so many out there there will be more that break down and we run them on rough diesel - Ebby recommend a fuel additive called 'Fuel Set' which we now use.It is worth remembering that Ebby have the commercial vehicle market for lorry night heaters about sewn up and they do not have problems. From this I deduce that most Ebby problems are fuel based.I wonder if when we lose 'boating diesel' marinas might actually start stocking some decent stuff ?

The older Erbers are much more user-serviceable, while I've heard that servicing the modern ones is a bit more tricky. If/when the red diesel saga is finalised and if we end up having to pay the same price as regular white diesel, then I think it's reasonable for us not to expect to have to accept lower grade fuel.

 

Adding to a balance:Our Webasto, just over a year old, recently died. Taking it to the nearest service agent, a boat hire company, they diagnosed the burner unit being coked up as the problem. The new unit cost £164, plus labour. The agent checked if Webasto would replace it under the guarantee, but they class it as a consumable! The hire fleet replace their burners every year automatically to prevent problems! Have we been done?

As far as I know, Webastos would prefer not to be run on red diesel either - the main advantage of Webastos over modern Erbers is their user-serviceability. I'm not sure if you've been done - but if by burner unit you mean the glow-plug was coked up, then you may have done yourself!

 

As Gary said, none of these systems were really designed for liveaboard use.

Edited December 2, 2007 by blackrose

[chris w]

I wonder if when we lose 'boating diesel' marinas might actually start stocking some decent stuff ?

 

We're not going to lose "boating diesel". It will instead have duty imposed on it at the full road tax rate. Marinas will not swap over to selling "white diesel" because the cost for new pumps and storage (or industrially cleaned to get rid of the red dye) is around £20,000. Further, marinas would then open themselves up to having diesel stolen (because cars can use it) which means heightened security which equates to increased cost.

 

Chris

Edited December 2, 2007 by chris w

[budgie348]

Can anyone comment on Bubble PJ Auto

diesel boiler

[blackrose]

We're not going to lose "boating diesel". It will instead have duty imposed on it at the full road tax rate. Marinas will not swap over to selling "white diesel" because the cost for new pumps and storage (or industrially cleaned to get rid of the red dye) is around £20,000. Further, marinas would then open themselves up to having diesel stolen (because cars can use it) which means heightened security which equates to increased cost.

 

Chris

 

So then we'll be expected to pay standard diesel prices for a sub-standard fuel? Any more news on your query about this with HM Govt?

 

Mike

[chris w]

Still awaiting a response Mike. These things usually take at least a month.

 

You're quite right of course that if red goes to the price of white, we'll be paying the full price for a lesser fuel. Marinas won't sell white for the reasons I listed above. So some (maybe many) boaters will jerry-can fuel to their boat and the canal will doubtless end up having far more diesel slopped into it than it does now.

 

Chris

Edited December 2, 2007 by chris w

[Pav]

I don't know a lot about diesel heating but my boss (owner of Measham Boats) prefers to fit webasto over ebers purley because of the troubles he has had with reliability. Also a a bloke who sometimes works for him who specialises in servicing diesel heaters in boats agrees fully and finds them much harder to work on.

 

The reliability factor and poor feedback on Ebers is exactly the reason why I have asked our builder to fit a Webasto rather than the originally specified Eber................

 

......................Another point is that I can spell Webasto more easily!!

 

Regards,

Pav.

[Gary Peacock]

We now fit Webasto but did fit Eberspacher there really is very little difference, we have fitted a couple of other options that have too been even more problematic!

 

The only things we have never had a problem with (yet!) are Heritage stoves. (But considering the price and build quality it should be expected.)

[Travis]

Ebby/Webby? I still stand by Kabola's.....heater plugs?, electic supply? pumps?...they dont have 'em.

Fool (Travis) proof.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Travis

[RichardN]

Adding to a balance:

 

Our Webasto, just over a year old, recently died. Taking it to the nearest service agent, a boat hire company, they diagnosed the burner unit being coked up as the problem. The new unit cost £164, plus labour. The agent checked if Webasto would replace it under the guarantee, but they class it as a consumable! The hire fleet replace their burners every year automatically to prevent problems!

 

 

Our current boat has a webasto which we like. Our previous boat was shared and had a Mikuni - Eberspacher look alike. That used used to get clogged up once a year mainly due to water in the diesel. We have fitted extra filters on our diesel line - we knew we wanted them, went on a course run by Tony Brooks and found out what they were actually called! http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm#bmn48

[pagan witch]

Eberspacher miss managed the fuel oil problems and didn't do themselves any favours their closed shop policy on service providers didn't help either

 

We took our Ebby to a marina once and found out where they sent it - now we go direct for around 1/2 the price.

 

Try asking your local HGV electirical specialist - there are 2 round here who are Ebby authorised and nowhwere near the price of marinas. Ebbys are VERY common in HGV and small PSV

[Big Steve]

Thanks for all the tips folks, I've just found out that the Webasto head office is just down the road from me, so that might tip it in their favour.

I'll have to look into this Kabola thingy.

 

Funny how boat diesel has to be increased to EU prices, why doesn't DERV have to be reduced to EU prices?