elessina

Is this possible? On the box it clearly stated the heater (a ceramic heater) had an output of 2,000W. On the bar code label it stated it was a 230v – 240v, 1,800w. I initially concluded it must be a mistake, impossible to get 2,000w from 1,800w, but then heat output is not necessary directly linked to power consumption, in that a 1,800w vacuum cleaner will have a much lower heat output than a 1,800w heater. So, based on this how do we know what electric heaters have the best output. How does a 2,000w ceramic heater compare with a 2,000w fan heater or oil filled heater or Halogen or Infra-red etc. Ian Elessina

Perkins Sabre advised us to run engine above 1200 rpm (idle = 800rpm, max = 2200rpm) when wanting to charge batteries out of gear, and that it would be better not to do this at all until the engine had 200 to 300 hours on the clock. They said most bore glaze damage seems to be caused in first 200 to 300 hours life of engine…. We also have an Electrolux Travelpower generator, but this not recognised to give a sufficient ‘load’. They said once we had clocked up 200 to 300 hours, running engine above 1200 rpm out of gear 'should' be ok. As it happens, we need to run the engine above 1200 rpm to get a decent amount of amps out of the alternator and generator. Ian Elessina

For the larger windows, Fairy liquid seems best bet to date!! We too met up with Bill and Sue. RE. condensation has to go somewhere, I have heard this before, and that it will go to the next coldest surface, but not experienced it..... eliminate all cold surfaces and you will have no condensation!!... but easier said than done on a steel boat!!. Ian

Probably a little less, around 3.5Kw, depending on your supply voltage. We are often at 220v and less. The heater may also have a larger start up power requirement, and there will also be other equipment using some power. We have a 16amp supply, but find a 2.2Kw heater about the most we can use, because of other equipment connected, unless we have the Victron Combi on which takes the extra power from the batteries. Ian

One of the Paraffin heaters has a 'tip-over' safety device and over heat protector, so these should overcome the flare up concern. Our electricity is £7.50 per 50Kwh (double your price!!).... 15p/kwh. Red diesel at 50p/litre works out around 5p/Kwh, I believe paraffin is around 35p/litre, but not so readily available for collection in 25litre cans. But if red does go up to £1.00, maybe worth finding out local paraffin stockists, if the heater is suitable for use on board. If I had electric at your price, I would be inclined to use electric for heating, simple with no boiler costs / problems. Ian

Thanks Monty and Blackrose, I Tried the Fairy liquid last night, it certainly helps. I tried clingfilm a few weeks back, but without success. Will make up some ply / insulated cutouts for portholes. It has also made me think that making some cutouts in clear acrylic plastic may also work, if a good seal can be made around the porthole linings, which should be possible. Ian Elessina

Does anyone use a Kerosene / Paraffin heater on board? In Januarys' Canals and River Magazine there is a feature on a Kerosene Heater, the supplier says they are no longer stocking them, but found these on the internet Kerosene Heater… I assume they are Kerosine / Paraffin heaters as it does not make it very clear. I would have thought exhaust fumes would be a problem, do they not smell during operation? With auto start and 24 hour timer I can see some benefits of having one on board, even if as a back up to a maybe unreliable heating system. Fuel consumption is pretty good, around the 0.1Litre per Kwh mark. And I understand Kerosene is cheaper than Red diesel. Any comments? Ian Elessina

I agree, I have yet to see a new build 'replica' with as nice lines as the best originals, but they are getting closer. In my opinion Branson latest 'replicas' are closer to the original dutch barge designs than his 1st designs, but in fairness, most original Dutch barges were bigger than today's 50ft-60ft new build replicas so proportions have an effect. But there is no getting away from it, interior space is a premium. On Elessina we had the cabin front pushed forward 2 feet more than the original design, because we wanted that 2 feet to be usable interior space (as opposed to not so usable exterior space)….. So I guess we compromised on design, by having less forward deck (and rear deck) as possible. I also believe there is a design compromise to suit the predominantly thicker plated UK narrowboat industry. It is much more difficult to bend thick steel than thin, and generally original Dutch barges are of thinner steel, generally 6mm thick hull throughout (very unlikely to have 12mm thick base plates etc., or 10mm / 8mm sides like Elessina). Many people moving up from a narrowboat (including us) and used to the thicker steel sheets used will want a thicker steel barge rather than thinner. Ian Elessina

ASAP supplies do a 'EXPANSION TANK PLASTIC 2LTR (NO CAP)' for around £25 (depends on your discount). Product reference no 201899. Type expansion tank into their search box to see photo / details etc. see asap supplies Ian Elessina

We often get sound and signal cutting out, but only when we have a low (1) signal strength (10=high). Even on 2 we are ok. My initial thought was to increase height of aerial, but over time have established that our signal strength bares no relation to height of tide (we rise and fall around 20 feet)….. so increasing height by 6 feet would be pointless. I am beginning to find that signal strength is based on atmospheric pressure. When the barometer reading is high (fine weather) we seem to suffer more poor signal strength than when it is low. Signal strength also seems to be worse at peek tv period times (evenings and weekends). Our analogue tv reception is not good, we can not get (watch) channel 5. We are not far from the tv transmitters (5 miles), but on the other side of the hill (down on the river!!!). We have a Currys box... Matsui? Ian Elessina

Wide beams come in all shapes and sizes. Most new builds are between 10'-6" and 14'-0" wide and 40ft and 70ft long. I would have thought there is a wide beam design type available that most people would find pleasing to the eye. Some new build barge photos here. But if on a tight budget, pounds sterling per cubic metre of cabin space is an important factor, especially when living aboard. Ian D.B. Elessina

Any ideas / tips on how to reduce / eliminate condensation on aluminium window frames? As soon as the outside temperature falls to below around 5 degrees we get a lot of condensation on our gold anodised aluminium window frames. I thought having a 'dry' interior may help, but last night kept the de-humidifier going and the inside humidity was kept to around 40%, but I could not see any difference compared to normal when the inside humidity is around 50%. We left the curtains open on one side of boat and closed the other side. No difference!. Ian Elessina

We have a Kipor KGE3000dc (2.6Kva) digital super silent generator (Honda look alike). It's output is not of sufficient quality to run our Victron Combi inverter / battery charger. Since Honda / Victron advertise the fact that they both work together, there must be a difference between the two. Kipor advertise that the **** High quality power output is achieved by a built-in processor, which filters the initial power of the alternator to minimise wave distortion and voltage fluctuation. This results in the output being more refined, clean and smooth.**** … but not good enough for the Victron, or probably any other microprocessor controlled equipment, including most washing machines etc. The Kipor we have works hair dryer, vac, lights etc. We have had it less than a year, so can not comment on reliability. Ian Elessina

I believe mine is the same, which is ok and acceptable for cruising purposes. But I wonder where I stand if we were to have more than 12 people on board at our mooring. With our 60ft Dutch Barge there are times when we have come close to having more than 12 people on board, when on our mooring. When on our mooring I could say we do not have any 'passengers', just visitors!! Ian Elessina

Our Victron Multiplus has a three position switch. Invertor 'on' – 'off' – 'battery charging'. If we leave it on Inverter 'on', to utilise the 'plus' part of the system which gives us more power (from the battery) than that available from the shore supply, there is a danger that if the mains goes off, you do not know about it. Actually if on board we hear the relays trip and with 230v lights on they always get brighter when the mains power goes off (this because the inverter gives 230v whereas the mains / shore supply is always less, normally considerably less, around 180v just prior to loosing mains). If we are not on board, then I make sure we have no high power mains on (especially on timers) if leaving it on inverter. For long periods not on board, best to switch it to 'battery charging'. On 'Battery charging' we then only have the power available from the shore supply, which is usually sufficient, except if we are using the electric kettle and the 1Kw emersion heater is on, but generally we use the gas kettle. But I do not think (hope) we will destroy our batteries if left on inverter as it will switch off completely at around 12v (24v for us as we are 24v)….. I should / need to check this setting. It is probably changeable, maybe I should set it a little higher than 24v. If there is insufficient battery voltage there is a 'low battery' indicator light. I would not think fuses will blow through lack of power.... they would normally only blow if overloaded...... which seems not to have been the case with Pirates problem. Ian Elessina

Nice to see it continuing, and hopefully it will continue in the same cordial way seen over the last few of days. Ian

Maybe sometimes paying council tax on your mooring can be worthwhile!!!. As has been said, there is no guarantee that property prices will continue to rise, indeed many experts believe they will fall. But that said, we are keeping a toe in the property market, by renting out our house. But I know others who have tried this and given up due the worry and hassle involved in the letting. Ian Elessina

As a rule of thumb, I have found most diesel heaters consume just a little over 0.1 litres per Kw It is my understanding that Pressure jet (house type boilers) are the most efficient, Drip feeds (Bubbles stove, Kabola's etc) are in the middle, with the Mikuni's, Webasto's and Ebaspachers the most inefficient, but that said most of the sales literature all seem to indicate much the same consumption (around 0.15 litres / Kw). 0.15 Litre / Kw output at 50p per litre = 7.5p / Kw. At 75p per Litre = 11p /Kw Electric at marina's seem to vary in price between 8p / Kwh to 18p / Kwh. So running a diesel heater will generally be cheaper than electric, providing it is reliable and costs little to maintain!!!. I have often wondered how much a gas (LPG) heater cost to run, off (say) a 15Kg bottle. I suspect more than diesel, but have not been able to work it out. Any ideas? Ian Elessina

Marc, I used the cheapest drills that Screwfix sell and found packs of 10 from Screwfix to be cheaper than packs of 2 from B&Q. I used 3.5mm bits most (less than £2.00 for a pack of 10), and went though nearly 3 packs. A pack each of 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 4.5mm and 5mm I found sufficient for my fit-out (total cost around £15!!), plus a 25 piece metric set (1mm to 13mm) also from Screwfix at £9.00. I purchased a cheap tap and die set (never used the die's) and purchased packs of 4mm s/s bolts (50 from Scewfix at around £1.50). I found the 3.5mm drill fine for 4mm bolts, although I believe you should use a 3.2mm drill (I used 3.2mm once, but found it hard work and was worried the tap might break). Also used a few 5mm and 6mm bolts but found the drills I had were fine. When using selftapping screws I always found one of the above size drill sets worked fine. For larger holes (20 to 76mm dia) the screwfix 15 piece hole saw set (£35) was invaluable. I did purchase a spray can of lubricant from Screwfix, but found vaseline just as good, and better, in that it collected some of the swarf. I always found my 240v drill better at drilling through steel (as opposed to my 18v drill), maybe because it is heavier / easier to apply a load. Ian Elessina

"I haven't checked any of these figures but they seem very odd to me..... How do you come to the conclusion that a petrol generator uses half the amount of fuel that an equivalent diesel generator would use? Diesel contains more energy per unit volume than petrol does and I believe diesel engines are also more efficient so surely this should be the other way round?" Gibbo, I have looked up and used manufacturers data. But the diesel generator is '4Kw' (the smallest I have seen available) and the petrol is 2Kw (the petrol also uses less fuel when at lower revs, the diesel I believe is always constant revs). "My boat has an enormous 6 litre diesel engine and it uses nowhere near this amount of fuel. How have you decided that doing it this way will use three times more fuel than a diesel generator? " My diesel engine is a 4 litre, when cruising it uses around 4 litres per hour. So I thought if just running at around mid revs range out of gear it would use a little less and thought 3 litres a good assumption. But I have no 'no load' running data. If I run my engine at mid rev range I get a lot more power output (into the batteries) than when just running a little over tick-over speed. Remember that if you are talking running from battery power then recharging the batteries then irrespective of how much power you have available there is a limit to how quickly you can charge lead acid batteries. 3/4 hr per day isn't going to put more than about 15% back into the batteries. Remember, almost by definition here you are just running at the top of the discharge/recharge scale and the last 10 to 15% is what takes the longest time on recharge. Good point. But I have found that I can put a lot of power back into the batteries when they are less than 90% charged, and from a practical point, would likely only start the engine / run generator to recharge batteries when they were less than 90%. But if wanting to look after batteries I believe a good 'long' charge would be required around once per week, which I have not taken into account. So options 1, 2 3 & 4 running costs (fuel) should be increased by say one hour per week (360 hrs over the 7 year period).... or maybe this is the excuse needed to take boat out for a nice long cruise once per week. Whispergen is really a very expensive heater that produces a bit of electricity as a by-product. Yes, but it seems a good option, if only it were cheaper. Ian

When coming up the R Thames, through central London, for the Beale Park Show this August we suddenly heard 4 blasts (pause) then 2 blasts. I can not remember all the sound signals, but guessed that a boat was turning to port (left), which I quickly confirmed against my handy sound signal sheet. But which boat? There were around 20 other boats around us. Within about 15 seconds there was another 4 blasts (pause) then 2 blasts, but this time slightly louder. It happened to be the tug boat towing 4 barges coming towards us, it did a 'U' turn in front of us, causing panic all around, especially from the GRP cruiser overtaking us at the time (who obviously had no idea what the sound signals meant). By knowing somebody was turning I had eased back on the throttle, but was still glad to have good brakes (reverse)!! If on a river I would recommend that you at least have a sound signal sheet to hand, especially when there are commercial / trip boats around. Ian Elessina

Charles, Yes. Good point, adding a large capacity alternator with around 300 amp output (at 12v) would give the same power output as the 3.5Kw Engine generator option. Not sure that a 300amp alternator will be cheap, but likely cheaper than the engine generator option. Ian

There have been a number of posts regarding all the various types of generators. I wondered, on a simple cost basis, over a 7 year period, if there was a clear cut winner. We need around 2 Kwh of power per day (to live on board). Sometimes more (washing machine, ironing, vac days etc), sometimes less, around 600wh (for fridge, lights, pumps, tv etc). There are a number of options and the best by far, is to simply connect to shore power, but assuming no shore power and the need to run over a 7 year period, I have calculated the following costs (if only on board half yearly or cruising half the year the total cost is in brackets):- 1) Diesel Generator. £6,250 (half year = £5,625). Install cost around £5,000. Need to run for approx 1hr /day. Running cost around 1lt/hr = £3.50 per week. Over 7yrs = £5,000+£1,250 = £6,250 (+ generator maintenance) 2) Petrol Generator. £3,500 (half year = £2,250). 2Kw = £100 to £1,000. Need to run approx 2 hrs per day. Running cost around 0.5lt/hr =£7.00/wk (we would need Honda Inverter type to run our Victron - for an extra £150 could convert to LPG use). Over 7yrs = £1,000+£2,500= £3,500 3) Engine Alternator. £7,650. (half = £3,800). Nil cost (already installed). Need to run approx 2 hrs per day. Running cost around 3lt/hr = £21/wk. Over 7yrs = £7,650 (plus maybe extra engine maintenance) 4) Engine Alternator *and* engine Generator combination. £5,400. (HY = £4,000). Cost around £2,500. Need to run approx 3/4hr per day. Running cost around 3lt/hr = £8.00/wk. Over 7yrs = £2,500+£2,900= £5,400. 5) Sun £4,000. 800w panel size. Assume 5hr sunlight per day and 50% efficiency. 6) Wind. £2,000. 4 x Rutland 913. Assume 25w output average each x 24hrs x 4. 7) Sun and Wind combination. £3,000. 400w solar panels + 2 x Rutland 913 8) Whispergen (750w). £10,900. Install cost around £9,000. Need to run approx 3hrs per day. Running cost around 0.7L/hr = £5.20 / wk. Over 7 years = £1,900. 9) Shore Power. £750. 2hrs / day at 15p/Kwh over 7 years = £750. With sun and wind a large battery bank (around 12 x 110 amp hr batteries) will be needed to store around 4 days supply. A smaller battery bank will suffice if generating power every day (petrol / diesel options). The battery bank will likely have to be replaced after around 4 years use, so the cost of 2 battery banks should be added to establish total costs (add around £1,200 in total) over a 7 year period. If not living on board throughout the year, or if on shore power some of the time, then diesel / petrol / battery running costs can be proportionally reduced, but all investment cost remains, which makes wind and solar power options less attractive (this is the half year cost total). If we were to use a laundrette and not use a Vac we would probably only need around 1Kwh per day, thus reducing our power requirements by half. We already have a large battery bank (920Ahr at 24v) and an Electrolux travelpower generator installed, so for us a few large solar panels or wind turbine would reduce engine run time and diesel consumption, but the cost of diesel saved would barely pay for the cost of the panels or turbine over a 7 year period. My conclusions. Using just an alternator is very expensive. Even with 4 x wind turbines and / or large solar panels the wind and sun option is too unpredictable to rely on completely and I am not happy using petrol. I have always liked the idea of the Whispergen, but too expensive. Both the diesel generator and engine alternator / generator combination works out at around £1,000 per year over the 7 years, taking batteries, maintenance etc. into account, but a mooring with shore power will likely cost over £1,000 per year extra, so still lots of variables depending on mooring area and circumstances etc. All cost and consumption figures are approximates and used for guidance purposes only, and will vary, especially so on engine size and alternator sizes, and good powerful diesel generators can cost considerably more than £5,000. Power required for cooking not included (assume gas or diesel cooking). Have I made any errors?. Bad assumptions? I started to work out the costs for my own benefit, but thought others may find it of interest and be able to improve on it's accuracy. Some remarks / comments:- Option 1. Need space to install diesel generator on board. Option 2. Petrol safety issues. Sheltered location (dry area) required. Noise issue if in marina. Option 3+4. Smaller narrowboat engine will use less fuel, but likely have smaller alternator requiring longer running, therefore approx same running cost. Option 3. Running engine (600+ hrs per annum) will likely necessitate extra engine maintenance Possible noise issue if in marina. Option 4. Possible (engine) noise issue if in marina Option 5. Solar panels take up large area. Theft risk. Likely go many days without sufficient sun / daylight to recharge batteries. Option 6. Installation issues on boat (4 off wind turbines!!). Likely go many days without sufficient power to recharge batteries. Option 7. More chance of having a mixture of sun or wind to allow generation. Option 8. Whispergen also provides 6Kw of free heat (central heating etc.), worth around £20/wk in winter, maybe £300 / year, £2,000 over 7 years. Option 9. Shore power is cheapest option by far, if you have access to it. But if a mooring with power facilities is going to cost over £1,000 per year extra (£3/day), then worth considering generating your own. Ian Elessina

My experience is, at 1200-1300rpm you are not getting many amps into the batteries. Run the engine a little faster 1400-1500rpm and you will (maybe!!!) get twice as many amps in, thus halving the time needed to run the engine. But you really need an amp metre (battery monitor) to know how many amps are being produced at different engine revs. This has been discussed many time before, but unless you can measure amps, you will never really know. The Perkins engine rep that we dealt with also said that running the engine faster would reduce the possibility of bore glaze. Ian Elessina

We have 4 rads and two towel rails (plus large calorifier). Over the weekend, bleeding the system, trying to get air out, I did manage to get the rads running nice and hot. Turning heater on and off a few times through the day and it started up every time no problem. But Sunday morning, would not start. It goes through the 2 minute start up procedure, then cuts out. I installed a temporary pipe (hose) near water heater outlet into the top of the header tank, and it always has a very good water flow through it, so I am now confident there are no air locks in the system….. I just hope it does not fire up properly when the Webasto engineer arrives!! Ian