Albion

I'd just drill the biggest hole that you can through the fitting that's welded to the lid. It won't matter really what size it is but, just in case it's true that the water flows through it, then the bigger the better. I suspect it won't and that it's only an air bleed but time will tell. Roger

The difference betwen when the shaft is stationary and rotating is probably due to the centrifugal slinging of the water from the shaft and seal face I guess. It's an interesting engineering exercise to see what happens when under way though Well, for me it is, but then again, I don't have to do the testing. Roger

The pressure won't be huge Colin, it is purely the water height difference between the water level outside the hull and the lowest part of the stern tube. On an LB maybe about 12 inches max. Fill a 12 inch tube with water and you will be able to experience the same pressure by keeping your finger over the lower end, it will hardly be noticeable. It is very likely that any air has dissipated by now, as you say, but drilling the hole in the weed hatch lid is still a worthwhile exercise otherwise every time the boat comes out for blacking etc you'll always have to double check that the tube has refilled OK before you head off with any significant revs. Roger

I'm sure this is correct as the rotational speeds are fairly low but there is still a fair bit of work/energy being dissipated through the shaft system. My concern was that if, on launch, the stern tube assembly trapped some air which couldn't get out then the seal and possibly part of the bearing could/may be running in air and wearing faster than it should. If water has found its way in there completely then there probably hasn't been any damage done. This could have happened due to the face seal not being absolutley air tight initially or the tube linking to the weed hatch top plate not being perfectly sealed by its clips for example. Roger

It is tempting to think that but there are two arguments why I don't think that is the case:- 1. If you want the flow of water to be sufficient to lubricate the stern gear bearing/seal why make the hole in the lid of the weed hatch so small? 2. On a properly designed weed hatch there is a baffle plate fitted in the aperture in the uxter plate, even when the seal is at the top of the weed hatch up-stand) to prevent splashing and noise from the prop. The prop is the only thing that could generate the pressure that you suggest and yet it is (should be) baffled to prevent that. I know some builders didn't use a baffle plate and LB may have been one of them. There is another possibility, of course, and that is that LB didn't really know what they were doing at all and simply found somewhere to stick a pipe that they had to attach to the stub on the bearing to prevent leakage. There may be no more science in it than that. Roger

Colin, I think you misunderstand me. I was supporting the fact that there was likely to be a hole there, albeit a very small one (you only need a very small bleed hole for air but you need a much larger hole for water flow), because otherwise if any air was trapped permanently you would have ruined the bearing, or at least the gland seal. If you truly have no hole in the connection through the plate then there is no way for the air to get out (except if the hose isn't secured in an air tight way) and there is risk of running the gland face seal dry, in my humble opinion. On my new barge I am having a water lubricated two cutlass bearing and one face seal system. The difference is that on my boat the filtered water is positively fed by a tapping off the raw water cooling system for the engine. The bearings etc are always under positive pump pressure, whereas I think yours will be under negative pressure for the reasons that I describe below. Vetus have already alluded to the fact that you are only really going to get a positive flow to the bearings when going astern. When in ahead, ie most of the time, the prop pulls water past the swim and expels it rearwards. In this case there has to be a slight negative pressure at the tip of the swim because the water isn't flowing to the prop as fast as the prop would like it to be supplied to it. This negative pressure is what makes the stern of a boat sit down in the water when you are travelling forwards. The more restricted and shallower the channel the more the effect is noticeable because of the difficulty of getting the water past the boat and to the prop efficiently. Now, what does worry me slightly is that this negative pressure will surely try to draw water through the tube that is connected to an air pocket in the top of the weed hatch upstand. The way the Vetus system seems to be designed is to use a scoop, forward facing into the flow, that creates a postive feed pressure. My gut engineering feel is that I would rather see the supply tube and fitting situated below the water line somewhere where it can draw a water supply if there is a negative pressure in the bearings and stern tube. Or, an extension to the tube fitting mounted in the weed hatch lid that enters the water just below the uxter plate and turns slightly forward (bit like an aeroplane pitot tube for speed instrumentation). But this system will feed silt laden water to the bearings and all the more so on shallow, narrow canal channels. Of ourse, the other possibility is that I'm barking up the wrong tree and have completely misunderstood how this system is supposed to work on an LB narrow boat which is always possible. Roger

If the hole is as small as that, and considering that there is nothing in the stern gear to pump water up the tube and into the weed hatch chamber, isn't it more likely that the hose is just an air-release vent to ensure that the bearing and seal face are fully submerged in water at all times rather than sitting in a pocket of air? If it ran dry by sitting in an air pocket then it would surely ruin it very quickly. Roger

I don't wish to rain on anyone's parade but those prices are too cheap to be true. More importantly though perhaps are the build times; 15 or 16 weeks from the time the baseplate is laid until delivery suggests that they are being banged out in a hell of a hurry. I suspect, but don't know, that the quality will be commensurate with the price. Will we see their name in a year or two from now?...........who knows! Roger

What about a leaking front crankshaft seal? That would come out (the front bearing is pressurised of course), get on to the pulley and then slung around by the pulley and any drive belts driven off that pulley. Roger

An observation from the previous smaller version. Skipton, on the L&L, was too close to Leeds. In reality it is not too far from Gargrave. Roger

I'll try to give a reasoned response to your question as so many others have been jocular. There are undoubtedly some problems on the UK canals. It is sensible to choose the times and periods of the year that you transit certain areas but you can be attacked anywhere at any time. Serious attacks are very rare but minor stone throwing etc is a bit more prevalent. You shouldn't boat with the preconception though that you are certain to find trouble because that isn't the case. In over 25 years of boating I've been cast off twice, stoned several times and a really serious, potentially fatal, stoning once. It is getting worse, in my opinion, as the general yobbery in UK society is also getting worse. There is less regard for the law, and other people's right to be left alone, among many groups, not just the youth. We are also becoming a much more crowded island with, if the projections are to be believed, the future of being the most crowded European nation at well over 70 million inhabitants in the not too distant future. This crowding will, in my opinion, only increase the tensions in society and aggressive behaviour. How bad that tendency will become is difficult to say. You won't be able to use all the speed that you claim you have on your boat because the channel won't allow it generally. I appreciate that your boat will be a smaller, sleeker, craft than a narrow boat but, even so, the depth and profile of the channel will limit your available get-away speed so you won't be able to outrun any problems (and the yobs know it). If I was in your situation I would stay where you are but, then again, distant shores are always greener. Roger

Keith, I'm struggling to get my head round the description. From what you say it sounds as though they have a threaded portion that then runs into a countersunk portion (which sits in the porthole securing hole) and then you have a shallow hex head (like a normal bolt) below a decorative domed head. In that case the appearance would be that the portholes are studded with hex headed domes. They would be fitted with a spanner rather than a screwdriver. Is this description correct or have I got the wrong end of the stick? Roger

Ah yes, that mysterious shrinking gremlin strikes again.........he's a real nuisance Somewhere in the universe, if there are equal and opposites for everything, there should be a mysterious expanding gremlin......but he never visits my house Roger

Nutserts would probably do the job just fine but couldn't the OP just move the step slightly to one side (still covering the original holes)and then re-drill and tap to suit a 6mm thread. In an ideal world the thread length should be about 1.5 times the diameter (for max strength) but I'm pretty sure that three (if that is the case) 6mm threaded holes would be quite sufficient into 6 mm plate. The load is taken mainly in shear, rather than bending moment, and three 6 mm steel bolts take quite a bit of shearing (unless you've put on quite a bit of weight Tony ) Roger

Yes, that's very thorough and will do the job. You just have to remember to treat every cut edge, reverse side, rebate and tongue before final laying. Most people are not that thorough in the heat of laying the floor. A lot of the wood is treated on the top surface and, after it has been laid and sawn to size, there are many exposed surfaces. Don't get me wrong, I love oak as a finish, it's a lovely wood, but I had oak veneered ply on the walls in Albion and had the problem that I describe which is why I advise caution with the choice or extremely thorough surface treatment. Boat builders don't go to all the trouble of sealing every surface before they fit. Roger

Varnishing only protects the top surface. Moisture can permeate anywhere. Varnished oak can and does go black if subject to damp. Roger

Nothing against solid wood flooring, had some on Albion in the galley and it was fine. The only caveat that I would make is to watch oak as a material. Don't forget that oak, although a lovely wood, will go black if it gets damp. I'm not talking about a momentary spill, quickly wiped up, but if you get a leaking door or hatch then you can moisten the floor un-noticed and oak will go black. Other timbers are not so affected as far as I am led to believe. Wood floors are also quite noisy with the footfall of humans and pets. Roger

The way I would do it, assuming you haven't got the luxury of an undercover dock, would be to get the primer, undercoat and, at least one coat of top coat (preferably two) , on around each window aperture. I would feather out all the coats of paint, particularly the top coat, by brushing it out as thinly as possible (brush it out until the brush is almost dry) as you go away from the window aperture. Fix your window/s using suitable sealant. Then, when thoroughly dry, gently rub down the top coat using wet and dry, used wet, to completely remove any brush marks. Then, when ready, do the top coats on the rest of the boat. This method, with the windows in place, does mean that you will have to cut in around the window frames and that isn't as easy as top coating complete without the windows in place. Roger.

Yep. Roger

Or could it just be 'bull's ordure'? Roger

In 2006 on our way to the National at Beale Park, having been part of a club that (as you know Ditchcrawler) had booked right back at the start of booking acceptance and ended up as far from the gate as it was possible to be, we were boating alongside the boat of a couple that openly boasted that they had only booked a few weeks before and, because they knew someone involved, got a berth right outside the gate (and they weren't disabled either). This boast was given in reply to my jocular enquiry as to how they had got a berth number that was so close when my number was so far away. As long as this sort of thing is allowed to go on and regular early bookers always seem to end up as far away as it is possible to be then there will always be some suspicion (and it appears to be justified) that it is who you know rather than when you submit your booking that is important. Roger

Yes, agreed, it is normally stamped on the nut face of the hub but may need some cleaning off of to see it clearly. Roger

I had Intertuf two pack on Albion and, after a few years (not that many really), it faded from black to a lightish dove grey. On our boat in France we had a Hempel blacking which also went dove grey. This was a PITA for touching up as you ended up with a patchwork of black touching up on the light grey background. For the French boat we swapped to Rylards Premium Protection which stayed glossy/silky black. It was recommended by our local narrow boat hire fleet company and all their boats stay black. Roger Edited to add: I reckon that the fading to dove grey is what has happened here.

Neither primer or undercoat are waterproof so, unless you can guarantee that your window sealant is perfectly applied, you ought to do the job properly with gloss IMO. Roger

That depends on the builder and his method of construction. The older style (more traditional builders) wouldn't have had any fixed bearings so you could have lifted the rudder stock upwards without problem. Other builders may have used a self-centering bearing at the top which may have been secured to the stock. Difficult to state absolutely without looking at it. Roger