pmms

Hi all we did the Thames this year, and for the second time we went from limehouse upstream with the flood tide. We went out on a Saturday morning at 0800, and using canal revs, 750-1000, we took 3 1/2 hrs to teddington arriving 10 mins before hi water teddington. No problems, boarded by the police at tower bridge, all tooled up anti terrorist officers who refused a cup of tea!! I do have a vhf radio which is useful for monitoring river traffic. Saturday / Sunday morning 0800 departure is a good time because the trip boats do not start until 1030 ish and the commutor catts to grenwich do not run weekends. Go in convoy if poss and take heed of the lock keepers advice, as he said to us "we have sent thousands of narrowboats out of here and while some have had a rough ride we havent lost one -----yet" I would do the teddington to limehouse run BUT it would have to be timed to arrive at limehouse early morning and I have seen the back eddy at the entrance to limehouse cut that catches people out. The lock keepers at teddington are a mine of info on the run to both limehouse and Brentford. We came back to the GU via Brentford which is ok but again i would advise an early morning departure to arrive at Brentford at opening time 0800, only room for one boat on the wall waiting for the lock, (we were 3rd boat!), and no room for more than one boat at the gauging lock. spent 3 months on the river and will go back again. If anyone wants any specific info email me at jp52405@tiscali.co uk HTH Paul Morris

I think (and this is from memory - Im away from the boat and the books) that the requirement for copper olives (in marine LPG systems) stems from BS 5482 Pt3, brass olives are to hard for the soft copper tubing. If your fittings are comming with brass olives then I would check that they are suitable for use with LPG. I know that some ball cocks suitable for use with LPG are supplied with brass olives, and "best practice" would be to change them for copper. Paul M

Neutralise spills with good old bicarbonate of soda and wash off with water, prime and paint. Paul M

just a couple of observations based on casual research, International Toplac- more tolerant of less than perfect conditions, easiest to apply retains its wet edge well. International Brightside - no view , not met anyone who has used it. Blakes enamel - slightly less tolerant than Toplac but not bad, note that Blakes have a combined primer/undercoat so maybe less work, Blakes appears to "go off" easier and requires an earlier finish to avoid blooming of the gloss. Masons P type, a vehicle finish that gives good results BUT appears to be a spraying paint that requires an additive such as owatrol to maintain the wet edge. All the above is not worth a toss if the substrate preperation does not support the final coats. I have heard that Rylards is ok but does need an additive to maintain the edge. HTH Paul M

Nigel finding a 50mb regulator is not a fail point under the boat safety check list. I to have found them fitted and when the flame picture was assessed all was fine so I could not fail it. (for all I knew the appliances may have been jetted for 50mb as are some continental appliances) I was today at Watford as part of the Examination Checking Procedures working party, and this was one of the items we sent back to the BSS technical committe to resolve. Paul M

The boat was called "kanbedun" and was built by Nantwich Canal Centre on, I think, a Tim Tyler/Jonathan Wilson? shell. The owners cruised the whole of the canal system. I prepared the brochure for the sale thru ABNB and I thought that the boat was superb, it had wheel chair access from the stern thru to the front saloon, wheel chair access to the towpath was via a folding GRP ramp that stowed on the rear hatch slide when not in use. The article was in Waterways world and I am sure that they do a reprint service HTH Paul M

Nigel I have just had a boat on which the new regulator marked at 37mb was giving 58mb!! I have not seen one fail low when new but have seen plenty fail high. Paul M

Alan, we did the trip in 2002 and enjoyed it so much that we are going back this year. I think the secret is in the prep. We intend to go out of limehouse early on a saturday morning, the trip boats dont start until 10 ish on a saturday and the commuter boats to grenwich dont run at all. You have to watch the weather of course, get the tide tables from the PLA website and choose a time to suit. We went out 3 hrs before high water (london bridge) an did 8mph over the ground at canal engine speed, we got to the richmond barrier early and had to wait for the barrier to open. Make sure you know the sound signals in use on the thames as the ships use them, and if you have the appropriate certificate of competence then a vhf radio is useful. Hope this helps, and maybe see you in limehouse on June 18/18 Paul M NB Enchantress

I have just caught up with this thread, Gary I think you will find that trading standards will only take action in the first twelve months of ownership, after that it is a civil matter between the owner and the builder,(if they can be found). There are so many requirements within the RCD that it is now a specialist job to keep a track of the essential requirements that I personally believe only a few people have the expertise to cover all the bases. I do not think that a low price should mean non compliance with any regulations, after all a Kia automobile is built to the same european regs as a Rolls Royce but no one would claim the same quality or longevity for both cars. I can only feel for the clients, I have examined a fair No of CE marked boats for their first BSS and 60% have some form of non compliance, now a few boat builders will put up their hands and take responsibility and correct the fails, some are no longer around and some just ignore the client. Most of the non compliance items are fairly minor but why should you have to pay extra for what would have been a no cost job to the builder? I guess I am saying that within your budget you should factor in 500 quid or so to have a competent surveyor supervise the build, and before any one gets the wrong idea, no I dont do that, to difficult and the insurance is to expensive. Sorry its so long but its a hobby horse of mine as I am tired of meeting disapointed owners. Paul M

Gerry I thought that diesel-electric subs only charged batteries when engines running and if submerged they ran with the snorkel device raised, drawing in air for the engine, and exhausting fumes inc hydrogen, or charge on the surface, I dont think they charge their battery banks any other way. Richard, I assume you are talking about the bonding of the 12v neg to the hull and 240v earth? The BSS has no view on this, as far as I am aware. I stand by my previous comment that there are as many views as there are experts, I have spoken to loads of people within the trade and have got an equal No of views. Paul M

John, I agree that there is no room for interpretation, and the "book" must be followed. My interest is commercial in that I am a Boat Satety Examiner, which I thought I had declared when I first joined the forum, if not I appologise, I have never touted for business on the pages of the forum, I am a liveaboard boater with over 25 years canal boating, I have an inerest in seeing safe boats alongside me in locks!! The Boat Safety Standards may have their faults but are not difficult to achieve on a new build and the current exemptions for older boats should by now have been sorted out. The current review has now passed its public consultation period and the new standards should be introduced in the new year, the current electrical section is under review and it is hoped that this is brought up to date. Paul Morris

I think this thread just goes to show that there as many opinions as there are boaters. I believe that the current requirements for battery installations (not the pt4 standard for electric boats) were formulated prior to the appearance of gas free boats with large battery banks, and boats with agressive charge controllers. There are instances of explosions caused by a boater lifting the battery cover whilst smoking or disconecting a charger under power and causing a spark. During the course of the day job I have seen eleven batteries in an engine bay all charged from a 160amp alt. with controller, the amount of hydrogen given off during charging must be substantial. I think that during the upcomming review of the standards these issues may be addressed, I personally feel that the largest danger in narrowboats are bow thruster installations where the batteries share the same compartment as the contactors and the compartment does not have sufficient ventilation. AND the definition of sufficient is under review!! Yours in techno babble Paul Morris

I have said it before, and no doubt Ill say it again, do it to the British Standard, 5482 pt 3 1999 and it will not fail the BSS as she is currently written. So compression fittings it is. Paul M

Simon we did the trip two years ago, a little advance planning can make the trip a great experience. get hold of the tide tables for next year and choose a tide time that will let you out of limehouse early, 8am (ish) on a saturday. you will then avoid the commuter boats that run down to grenwich and the trip boats from the embankment do not start until 10 am so you will well clear of them. (as i said this was 2 years ago so worth checking still valid!!). we arranged to go in company with another boat and keep an eye on each other in case of trouble (something round the prop etc). st pancres cruising club do a good guide to the ring and we also used "The River Thames Book" by Chris Cove Smith which we found excellent. If you are in company with another boat give then one of your cameras and then you get photos of your boat passing the sights. Canal engine speed was sufficient for 7-8 mph over the ground and we got to richmond barrier to early and had to wait 40 mins for the barrier to open, to tight to pay for the lock, but i understand the lock is now free of charge. Its a wonderful experience and we are going back next year for a re-run to take in the bits we missed. Havent got the tide tables yet as the admiralty have stopped free postings on the web (except for 7 days in advance) so have to either pay or wait for the PLA to post on their site in January As the lock keeper said to us, he had sent hundreds of narrowboats out onto the tideway and hadnt lost one - yet!! HTH Paul M

Hi Mike I think that imperial tube is used just because it always has been. I worked at a large chandlery and we only stocked metric in 4mm sizes, as that was needed for ebespracher's. Everything else was imperial. As most appliances have 5/16 or 8mm stub connections (and 8mm is compatible with 5/16 fittings). As for pipe sizing, the BS 5482 pt3 1999 has a sizing table in it and 2.5mb drop is its aim. In practice its not often I see a drop as little as 2.5mb 4 -5mb much more normal. The boat will not fail a BSS a specific pressure drop, the test is for a 'satisfactory flame picture'. Compression fittings are required (rather than soldered) is because of vibration, soft soldered fittings are not allowed in fuel systems because of the requirement for fuel systems to be fire resistant. BTW some fittings come with brass olives, these should be changed for copper olives HTH Paul M