KenK

For what it's worth we have a cassette, standard Thetford with electric flush. Advantages:- cheap to use (empty), normally plenty of places to empty it, although I have seen some reports that is not always the case. Disadvantages:- Can be heavy to carry for an older person, at least on the way out. Not the most pleasant job in the world. No ones had any problems using the loo and there are certainly no smells. Ken

There is definately nothing in parallel. I measured from the switch to the ground on the alternator and I couldn't see anything in the wiring, but it is possible it's somewhere else. The domestic one has a Beta controller connected and it could be in there, I only noticed because I'm drawing a complete wiring diagram for the boat as the original is on lots of bits of scrappy paper. I mentioned it as the guy who tested the alternator suggested flashing it which seems odd if he could get it to work normally. Ken

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your setup Maverick as yours is a different make of alternator. The panel on my boat has LED's rather than 12 V lamps and therefore the D+ connection goes directly to 12 V, there is an internal resistance in the alternator to derive the current for the field winding. The LED's are turned off using an AUX connection. Ken

Yes seeems reasonable. I have checked the belts and they are not slipping, also kept an eye on the taco and no unusual movement so the alternators seem to be running consistently. It's a bog standard Beta 38 installation with about 350 hrs use so far, I assume the pulley ratio is the best compromise. Idle speed is around 900 rpm. One thing I'm not certain of is the battery wiring, I have three battery disconect switches labled Engine / Domestic / Inverter, so I'm wondering what I actually have. I intend to investigate but can't get down to the boat as I sprained my ankle badly the other day when I fell in and can't even get a shoe on at the moment. Ignoring the losses and using the raw numbers a 70 Amp alternator charging a 660 Amp battery bank is slightly over 10%, adding in the 40 Amp unit would give me slightly over 14% charge to capacity as the engine battery is also 110 Amp. I doubt that would cause any problems and both alternators are battery sensing. At the moment this is not a major problem as everything kept working but the Sterling inverter did make some plaintive bleeping noises on occasion. I started this thread looking for ideas and advice so keep it coming. We have had a couple of comments regarding the aftermarket equipment but not as many as I expected given the number of companies selling it. Ken

Hi Chris, What we found on our last outing to Bristol from Newbury and back is that if we had a nice clear section 15 mile pound for example we had plenty of power in the batteries. On the other hand Caen Hill locks and very little charge in the batteries. Now that makes sense we have a240V fridge powered by the inverter, so on the lock sections we probably have more going out than comming in. But we also have a 40 amp alternator basicly doing nothing for most of the time its spinning anyway so we might as well use the power.Ken Hi Carl,Yeh I know I should have known better. Ken

Just out of thin air to explain the concept. I did say measure everthing to obtain the correct figures. Ken

Maverick, I see you have this thread running on Justcanals forum as well. The pic of the alternator is better on there and it looks like you have an earth stud as well as a positive terminal. If so are you sure the alternator is grounded? Ken

If the alternator is ok, as per the test then as it spins up the voltage at D+ should rise and the light go out because the potential difference across the lamp would be zero, i.e. both sides at 12 volts approximately. The voltage fed by the warning lamp creates the magnetic field in the field winding, alternators don't normally have permanent magnets, as the alternator spins the voltage generated keeps the field coil magnetised. Did you try reving the engine hard that will sometimes start the process even without a voltage on the field winding. It also may be that the design of this alternator does not need the warning lamp in the field winding hence the advice to flash the alternator to get it going. If the guy in the shop got it going how did he connect it? If you don't have the lamp in the circuit you will increase the current in the field windings from around 3 amps to about 6 amps figures are approximate it will depend on the resistance of the field winding and the warning lamp. Do you have a multimeter if so measure from the D+ to earth on Ohms range and check the resistance should be somewhere around 2 - 4 ohms, then do the same thing across the lamp no power on in both cases. You can then work out the current increase I =V/R for example 3 amps =12 volts/4 ohms, if the winding is 2 ohms and the bulb is the same, add them together as they would be in series. If you take out the lamp then the current goes up to 6 amps 12 volts/2ohms. If the alternator is designed to work without the warning lamp then the increase in current should make it operate. Connect the meter across the battery and measure the voltage should be around 14 V if the alternator is charging. Then you can use one of the Aux outputs to connect to the warning light, it should be earth when the alternator is not working and 12 volts or thereabouts when it is. Hope this helps and apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs. Saw snibble beat me to it. Ken

I can't see the need for two shows so close together in both location and time. Even car companies and they have far more money available than boat manufacturers tend to spread them out NEC one year London the next. Also boats tend not to change much year to year, you could take a twenty year old design and it probably would not look out of place, not possible with a car. Ken

We had one on our last trip. Moored oposite the pub on Sunday and enjoying our lunch, boat turned up around 2.30 and moored outside the pub. Party disembarked and stayed in the pub all afternoon and evening. We went to bed at 10.30 about half an hour later heard an engine start, looked out after 5 mins to see boat oposite with all the lights on inside and thre or four people sitting on the back deck, cruiser widebeam. Yelled across and told them we were trying to sleep, no response, got up walked round to be told they had a problem with the batteries. I informed said gentleman that would be the least of his problems if he did not turn the engine off, it did go off though not before several comments about no consideration for others. Funny how they always think they need the consideration not you. Ken

Maverick B+ is the main positive connection to the battery. W is a phase tap to allow you to run a tachometer. The small spade under the B+ is probably D+ its an aux output for external control, you shouldn't need it. One of the other three should be labeled F or DF this should be connected to the warning lamp, it energises the field winding to help the alternator start operating. Anything labeled 61/Ind/L/Aux can be ignored for the moment more aux outputs. Finally the alternator negative will probably be from the case , if not there will be another stud / spade labeled -B/-E/Gnd/Bat- All you need for the alternator basic operation is +/- B ie to and from the battery and the field wire connection F. You may have already damaged it however many alternators have a surge diode to protect against operating without a load. Try the basic connections and see how you get on. Good luck Ken

Thanks for the input so far. I have looked at the various websites, Smartgauge, Sterling, Adverc etc. naturally they all claim their system is best. What I'm looking for is real world information, what do you have and does it work? Thanks Ken

Hi All, I know that the subject of battery charging is dear to all our hearts and has been discussed at length but this is a specific rather than a general question so hopefully it won't start a fight. I’d like to improve the battery charging system on my boat so I’m looking for suggestions. The current setup is as follows:- Beta 38 engine. 40 Amp battery sensed alternator charging 110 Amp engine start battery. 70 Amp machine sensed alternator converted by an external Beta alternator controller to battery sensing charging six 110 Amp leisure batteries. Sterling 3000W pure sine wave inverter. The problem is that the leisure batteries take quite some time to become fully charged. The alternator is working correctly, as is the controller but it is a lot of batteries and a fairly small alternator. The options are, connect the two alternators together using one of the many systems available or replace the 70 Amp with a larger alternator. I feel the first option makes the most sense but what’s the best system to use and why? Ken

Looking good, went around a couple of times in ours trying for a better view, so busy looking at your boat nearly hit that old Pompey ferry. When will it be finished? Ken

Hi Chris, Is yours the Black /Red/Green widebeam on the hardstanding at Bristol Marina? With regard to the smoke alarm, we also received ours free from the Fire Service, they fitted it to. Sounds like the same type as grayln has, had no false alarms so far or real ones thankfully. Ken

Yesterday my wife and I returned to the boat to tidy up after our summer cruise, after dumping some rubbish I was walking back to the boat when I tripped near the edge of the Marina. One foot went into space, I grabbed the nearest object, a boat, the boat was moored very loosely and promptly drifted out taking me with it. I was now in that wonderful situation so beloved of cartoonists one foot just on the land one hand on a boat and the rest of me suspended over the water. No way back so the choice was feet first or head first, I chose feet and in I went. I twisted my ankle as I stumbled so the nice cool water was quite soothing as I stood there feeling and no doubt looking like a total idiot. The above space is to give you time to stop laughing. Whilst I don’t mind giving everyone a good laugh there is a more serious point. I was standing in about three feet of water, I’m around six feet tall and reasonably fit and a strong swimmer, the water was cool but not cold and the weather, remarkably for this summer, was warm and dry. So all I had to do was get out, it took me ten minutes! The side of the marina was about shoulder height, I tried hauling myself out but with sodden jeans and shoes this proved impossible, my feet just sank into the ooze on the bottom as I pushed upwards. Then I remembered boats have a nice little step to help you get back on, not this one, it had helped me in but there was no way it was helping me out. After several attempts at different locations I finally managed to haul myself out. How long it would have taken if I had been in the canal I don’t know or indeed whether I could have done so unaided. So to coin a phrase from an old TV show “People be careful out there” Ken

Just back from collecting the boat, in the rain. Still can't really complain had ten days out in April and just over two weeks in early August in the only sunshine this year so far, so I suspect we have been luckier than lots of people. Thanks for the information I'll pass it on. Names are Ray and Sarah. Ken

Thanks snibble, can you explain the difference in the windlas, also can they be rented. Seem to recall that was possible somewhere, is it the Wey? Ken

My father in law and his wife want to borrow my boat and take a trip from the K&A at Newbury to the River Wey and return. They have done the K&A and Thames before but not the River Wey. I know there are some members based on the river so any local knowledge would be welcome. They are planning to go at the begining of September for a couple of weeks, boat is a sixty foot semi-trad named Winter Rose, give them a wave if you spot them. Ken

Trust me and I was there listing to him, unprofessional is not the word I would use, total A******e sums him up. He knew he had screwed up and was trying to pass the blame. This young couple had three small children in addition to looking after the boat and dealing with the lock, given the total lack of training it's no suprise an accident happened. Also take into account they were heading down to the Avon through one of the deepest locks on the system, if it had happened there it could have been a total disaster. The first time my family and I went on the canal our training was minimal, they showed us the boat, took us out of the marina and about 200 yards later the guy stepped off the boat at a narrow point and wished us good luck. Fortunately we met some real boaters and they helped us through the first couple of days. For most people hiring for the first time they make mistakes we all laugh or complain probably forgetting we were there once. I promise never to complain about a hire boat again after seeing the faces of those three children. It is time the hire boat industry improved its act with better training for all their customers. I know its not easy but some companies do it. At the very least they could get together and produce a good training film on DVD and send it out when the booking is made. Then ask questions when the boat is handed over, its not a perfect solution but if it prevents one accident it's worthwhile. Ken

This S172 issue recently was finally resolved in July 2007 at the European Court of Human Rights in the Police favour. So showing two fingers will get you a fine plus points and you have no defence. Based on the fact that the average speeding fine is £60 and the points 3 why push it so far, because your being a naughty person and the authorities don't like it. I spent two years defending a speeding charge, the police used the equipment incorrectly according to their rules, the vehicle could not go that fast according to the manufacturer. They even asked to borrow the vehicle, and close the motorway so they could prove it was possible, OH! and we won't be insured! Back on topic, if they want to make an example of a boat owner or supplier they will move heaven / earth and the goal posts to succeed. Ken

We were moored just above the lock when this happened. The family went through Bradford lock with another boat so did not have to work that one. They were in the top lock on their own caught the cill with the back of the boat, did not know what to do so just made sure their children were safe. By the time we realised what was happening it was too late to do anything except call BW. They arrived very quickly and craned the boat out. It was of course damaged but the hull was intact so I doubt it would be beyond repair. The father said the only training they had received was to watch a short video whilst waiting for the boat and then they were shown over the boat and had all the controls etc. explained, no one went out with them they were just sent on their way. When the manager from Alvechurch arrived he just ranted on about how they had seen the video, no sympathy for the family at all. If you had seen the faces of the children the last thing you would have worried about was your boat. We rented from Hilperton a few years ago, and we had the same level of training, the video is rubbish, all sweetness and light, the dangers of locks glossed over, no one bothered to check if we knew what we were doing either. There are companies that do it properly, Foxhangers for one , our boat is currently moored there as one of the locks on the Caen Hill was damaged on Sunday evening, this time by a Reading Marine boat. I watched three of their customers being shown the ropes not a video hands on training, lock operation at the lock etc., time clearly was not a problem. Probably explains why their boats cause the least problems and their customers all enjoy their holiday. Thankfully no one was hurt but it probably put that family off narrowboats for life and I suspect all their friends once the tale is told. Ken

Hi Morth, We did it a few years ago and it is a great canal. Don't know what its like now but many pubs and shops did not take credit cards when we went so the cheque book came in handy. The main advice as its your first time is take care in the locks, last weekend on the K&A at Bath top lock I and a number of others were trying to help a family with three young children whose hire boat ended up nose down in the bottom of the lock because they caught the back of the boat on the cill, fortunately no one hurt, but the holiday was ruined. The next day we reached the Caen Hill locks to find one closed because a hire boat had lifted one of the gates off its hinge and smashed the top concrete support. Canals are lots of fun and I'm sure you will have a great time but there are dangers if your'e aware of them then it won't be you who has the accident. Ken

Hi Jess, Welcome to the forum. The first advice is that the question is impossible to answer. I assume your talking about AC wiring rather than DC. You need to work out your power needs, distance from inverter / shoreline connector etc. Its called doing a power audit, once you know that then you can work out the cable requirements. Again I assume the person giving the advice meant you should not use the normal household flat twin and earth, this is correct as it's too rigid for boat use. Try searching on the forum, you will find loads of advice. Tony Brooks website is also useful as is Gibbo's. http://www.tb-training.co.uk http://www.smartgauge.co.uk Good luck with the build Ken