Dr Bob

OK guys. My last post on the subject. I do not want to argue about this topic. Both sides have put their views. I have a professional interest in waste recycling. I work for a company that works closely to waste management companies. I know how they make their money. I have had a conversation over the last few days that tells me that at least one waste management company is not wanting dog poo in their bins and has told a marina not far from here to stop. All councils in this country accept this waste in domestic bins in this way. However being 'commercial', they have the power to say no. The discussion on the CWDF on the topic has raised the issue. It has made others aware of dog poo in bins. That has resulted in the conversation I referred to earlier. I know waste management companies. I strongly suggest we stop this discussion - nothing to do with winning or loosing. I do not have a dog. I do not put poo in bins. However continued discussion will only lead to claim and counter claim that will ultimately lead to severe restrictions on where you can dispose of dog poo. I asked IanD yesterday if we could let this die down and he agreed that penalty for not doing so could have a wider issue. I have contacted the mods who dont see an issue. AlandeE obviously doesnt care less about wanting to discuss dog poo - yet risks something that I guess many many will be concerned about. I will not post again as I dont want to see a huge number of people disadvantaged. If they are then blame it on AlandeE, Athy and Magie Patrick who dont see it as an issue. It may already be too late

OK guys. My last post on the subject. I do not want to argue about this topic. Both sides have put their views. I have a professional interest in waste recycling. I work for a company that works closely to waste management companies. I know how they make their money. I have had a conversation over the last few days that tells me that at least one waste management company is not wanting dog poo in their bins and has told a marina not far from here to stop. All councils in this country accept this waste in domestic bins in this way. However being 'commercial', they have the power to say no. The discussion on the CWDF on the topic has raised the issue. It has made others aware of dog poo in bins. That has resulted in the conversation I referred to earlier. I know waste management companies. I strongly suggest we stop this discussion - nothing to do with winning or loosing. I do not have a dog. I do not put poo in bins. However continued discussion will only lead to claim and counter claim that will ultimately lead to severe restrictions on where you can dispose of dog poo. I asked IanD yesterday if we could let this die down and he agreed that penalty for not doing so could have a wider issue. I have contacted the mods who dont see an issue. AlandeE obviously doesnt care less about wanting to discuss dog poo - yet risks something that I guess many many will be concerned about. I will not post again as I dont want to see a huge number of people disadvantaged. If they are then blame it on AlandeE, Athy and Magie Patrick who dont see it as an issue. It may already be too late.

As per my comment on the other thread. Lets not fight to have the last comment. If you continue to push, the inevitable conclusion to me will not be good for dog owners. I dont have a dog.

Ian!!!!!! Lets not try and have the last word? We can start the arguments up again and I can see the outcome. Lets put this to rest. I dont have dogs. Many others do.

So Alan, what do you think when dog poo is banned in various bins? I think this is quite a serious issue. At least one marina in our area is being told not to put dog poo in bins in the last few day. Please will you stop discussing this.

For once I agree fully with Ian. This argument could end with many waste management companies refusing to take any poo in their commercial bins and that would be very very bad for dog owners. Please can we stop discussing this topic. I have also asked the mods to close this thread and the others and not got a particularly helpful answer!

Bloody sun did a runner yesterday and has not been back today. It was meant to be wall to wall sunshine!

I'm glad to see that peeps are now understanding where this is going.

Various web sites come up with the same number. I posted links to those sites on another thread. Just Google amount of dog poo in the U.K. to confirm. The amount is 340g per dog per day for the average dog. That is over 2Kg per week which is just short of the 2.5 to 3Kg per person we produce. Have you got a dog. Our two dogs, a Clumber spaniel and a Golden retriever used to produce mountains of the stuff....which was all composted.

If you look at the links I posted on the other thread, the majority of it goes in to bins. Yes, some into dog poo bins but lots into normal bins. Dog poo bin contents are just tipped into the normal black bin stream.

Not a lot. It works in the current system. Problem is most peeps here do not know it is happening and are disgusted at peeps putting dried poo in a bin. 10,000 tonnes a week are binned. A bit of dried poo is going to be a drop in the ocean and no one will notice. If you ban dried poo, why not ban dog poo? Its the same problem. Both are choices that people have. Its not essential to have this type of loo or a dog. Is it?

Yes there is. The waste system is set up for dirty nappies, dog poo and incontinence pads....oh and cat litter! If Biffa say that this solid waste cant go in, then that look like discrimination as they are all the same waste codes. Do you put your cat litter in the bin? Cat litter contains worse disease. You cant re-use them but you can recover the various polymers. See below. Yes nappies are recyclable but not that many are recycled. As I said earlier they can be processed if they are not contaminated. I dont know the process but it will be similar to the way we process our recycled plastic which will be first shredding and then into a sink/float tank. The faeces will be separated from the plastic and settle in a slurry as the density is greater than water and the plastic and water absorbing gel will float as their densities are lower than water. The issue will come if other contminants get in,like grit or soils which will end up in the slurry stream (ie high density) and get in the way of processing, or paper which will float (low density) and likely contaminate the polymer which may be very difficult to separate. The main issue in recycling is separation of the components.

1. I would think they should be able to pitch it at the cost of a pump out so circa £15/month. To make it easier just chuck in another £50 per year on the license fee for all who use composting toilets and cassettes. (Elsans also cost money to run). After all, binning and elsans have been the recomendation for the last 3 years. The poo can continue to go into the bin like all the other poo and there is money to pay for the incinerator. That is quite simple. Oh, no. The peeps who dont have dogs, babies or incontinence pads still wont realise how these things are disposed of. How will we educate them?

....and that is the problem. There is no difference. They are both not nice things to put in a bin but thousands of tonnes per week of dog poo are put in bins. To be unbiased the poll should ask if the crt should allow this, dog poo and dirty nappies in bins. It would be interesting to see how dog owners would respond. I would vote NOT to put these solids in bins but as it is common practice for most dog poo and most nappies to go this route then it is a route I would use. Imagine the stink on here if the CRT suddenly said no more dog poo in bins? Dont get me wrong, I love dogs and we had two all our lives until not too long ago. They did produce an enormous pile of poo. We can put that in the bins. Also, this thread is another example of IanD doing a Trump. Misinformation and untruths. The CRT HAVE NOT BANNED this waste. Their guidance is that it should be composted and only a 'should not' be put in bins. That is not a ban. That is not a rule. Given the question is highly suspect and an un-truth, how can the poll be taken seriously?

Yes, soiled nappies are recyclable but only when they are not contaminated. If collected separately then they can be processed removing the faeces and urine and recovering the plastic and water retaining chemicals. If covered in food, oil, ash, etc they can only go to incineration/landfil and cannot be processed.

Well quite and overlooked by most on here. How many of those saying it is disgusting throw their dog poo in black bins?

....but do you have incontenence problems??

Mmmmm! Interesting. I've done some digging on dog poo! If anyone wants to discuss numbers then here are just some of the many sites that have data. All sites seem to be using similar numbers and seem to tie in with the 'huge' amount of poo our Clumber Spaniel and Golden Retriever used to produce (before we went off sailing) - which was all composted at the time. https://www.turningtogreen.com/post/what-do-you-do-with-dog-waste http://www.carryoncomposting.com/142941462 https://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2009/feb/11/dog-fouling-britain What the sites seem to say is that there are a lot of dogs in the UK producing a lot of waste. In 2009 there were circa 7 million dogs in the UK. Average poo per dog was 340g so thats around 2.5Kg a week. Total dog poo today is circa 1,000tes PER DAY. That's a very similar amount to the amount of human excrement in nappies PER DAY. Most of the sites I've seen say that most of the dog poo is bagged and binned (as per the nappies). So the CRT will be seeing a huge amount of this waste going into their bins and likely 3 factors higher than the potential waste from 'solids' toilets. Dog poo is the same waste code (20-01-99) as solid toilet waste. If the CRT have problems with solid toilet waste then they have massive problems with dog poo. The amount of dog poo is to me mind boggling. I had not realised 7,000tes per week is produced and most goes into bins (like I said, years ago we used to compost ours). I reckon not many peeps on here knew that either. For me that is not nice........and we havent even talked about cat litter which in may cases is disposed of in the same way (and is likely more of a bio hazard - see the links above). I think you have a point here. No one would dream of condeming dog owners. Putting dog poo in the bin is now the way we do it in the UK. It is accepted by most that this is OK. I dont like the idea of putting our solid waste in a bin but unfortunately it is the norm now - along with nappies and incontenence pads. I've made my choice to go for a composting loo - and try and compost but will dispose of in a bin if available if no composting available. Others choose to have dogs and put their dog poo in a bin. Same choice.

I am not surprised with your position then. Most areas do not have separate collection systems for 20-01-99 waste so I can see why you are shocked. You have obviously not seen the solids we are composting. It does not smell of poo. If you put your nose right up to it, it smells 'earthy' and not at all offensive. It is less unhygienic than soiled nappies and incontenence pads as it is rather solid compared the mobile smelly mess in those items. Health hazard? All of these items are a health hazard and the system is set up to cope with that. Even the cat's poo that is put in the bins.....even worse than human faeces.

Yes, incinerating toilets are available and do work. The problem is how to power them. They need a lot of energy to do their job......normally in the form of gas. I've not looked into it but likely you would need to be replacing gas bottles on a very regular basis, weeks not 4-5 months. The hassle of switching gas bottles would put me off. I guess you could burn it on the stove but that would probably contravene smoke regulations.....and hopefully we will stop using our stove by May.

Let me ask you a few questions then. Do you own a dog and pick up its poo and bag it then dispose of it? Do you have any babies that use nappies? Are you or do you have close relatives that have an incontenence issue? If you answer 'yes' to any of the above then you are very likely to be disposing of faeces in this way. If you answer no, then I am not surprised you are appalled as the thought of using the black bin for any of this waste will come as a shock. I think the majority of peeps here do not understand the UK waste system and the 5,000tes per week of human excrement that goes into it and likely almost that amount of dog faeces ( I am just looking at numbers at the moment). The waste system is set up to cope with this and can easily accept a tiny increase from this waste. If you answered No to three questions then I wouldnt be surprised if you retained your view it was appaling.

I agree with you. Shame not all think the same way.

I wonder if you have read all 33 pages of this thread? I agree with you that my 'potential' actions may be unpopular - note the word 'potential' as I have not been near a CRT bin since October last year. However, that is not the impression I get from many many respondents on here who continue to use very strong language, ie 'disgusting'. I have had a surprising number of PM's over the last 2 weeks saying how toxic this thread has become from both sides of the argument which at least gives me confidence some members are looking at both sides of the argument. The mood on here from most is far more threatening than 'unpopular'. Would those respondents opposed to my view say that to my face in a pub? I doubt it. Yes, I think it bad practise to put solids waste from a separating toilet in a bin but today puting human (and dog) excrement in a bin is standard practice and I will always strive to compost it ...but for those time when that cant be done then the 'bin' system is set up to deal with it. Many peeps on here do see it as disgusting but then they fail to see the massive amount (compared to this topic) of human and dog waste that 'they' are putting in the system. The system works with this. A number of peeps have commented....only an idiot would not have seen this coming. No, I maybe a muppet, but I am not an idiot. With 5,000tes of human excrement going into bins each week, god knows how much dog poo, the CRT clearly saying 'double bag it and put it in our bins' and my working knowledge of the waste management system, I was confident there was a way forward if composting was not possible. The commercial push by Biffa seems to have thrown a spanner in the works. The CRT's latest statement, posted on page 31 - not a clue about post number!- really shows what is going on. "It may be a regulatory issue"? Cobblers! "You should compost". Yes! ...but nowhere does it now say you 'must not' put it in their bins. It is clear to me that Biffa no longer want this waste in their incinerators. They have told the CRT that they dont want it. The CRT have likely tried to mount a defence based on this waste being the same waste code as nappies and dog poo and may have had to revise the amounts they allow on nappies/dog poo/others....but they realise they could be on a sticky wicket legally if they ban it completely - otherwise they would ban it and say there is a legal requirement. Therefore the 'guidance' they have given is 'compost it' and 'should not' put it in bins. Biffa therefore feel they have some control and amounts will reduce. My gut feeling is that this will now just die down with this 'guidance' in place and peeps will still continue to put their solids in the CRT bins and no more will be said 'till the next round of commercial negotiations with their waste supplier. A longer term solution of composting opportunities would be better and I think Marinas could make a bit of income by charging boaters to put their own solids in a compost bin for a fee - very easy to check what is being put in ie no plastic etc. Even if 1,000 boaters took to the network though it would be a drop in the ocean compared to nappies and dog poo and the waste network is easily able to handle this as it is. If the CRT is really in a financial bind with waste disposal cost then why not add £50 to our license fee for boats with these dry toilets or cassettes? Remember Elans cost a lot to run!

Agreed. Once approaching the grumpy 70's, one becomes less supple and incapable of figuring out how to get the bloomin' wire in, despite being able to master the Rubik cube in earlier years.