haggis

Sorry, just crawling back into my kennel in disgrace. Didn't mean to sound arrogant. I am sure that everyone on here cares very much about the canals. I was going to say that they just don't wnat to pay to have them maintained but that would probably be making another assumption and being arrogant. Just to set the record staright. 1, I pay my licence and mooring fees and I expect others who benefit from being on the canal to do the same 2. I don't clype on boats which appear not to be licensed 3. I see no reason to castigate people who do 4. I care about the canals and I don't really wnat to see them deteriorate again

Were you there? It was Great! Yes, I was there. I agree that it was great fun setting out to travel somewhere on the canal and not really knowing if you would get there or if you did how long it would take. It was not unusual to have to "operate" on a lock mechanism so that it would work. Lock landings? What were they? Just jump for what you thought might be the banking and it it wasn’t you got your feet wet. The canals were much less busy which also was good but these days are gone now. Sorry, perhaps I should have said "some" instead of "most" but I get the feeling that I am in a minority on this one.

I agree up to a point with your "live and let live" attitude to life but when so many people seem to think it is OK to use the canals without paying for a licence and mooring I would be very tempted to do something about it. Especially as the numbers of licence evaders means that I have to pay more. To my mind these folk are thieves, stealing from you and me (or should that be you and I?).

I agree that you didn't actually say that you approved of unlicensed boats BUT you did say "And this week's interfering net twitcher's award goes to.... " and "It's when they start busibodying in other folks' worlds it becomes an issue." Both statements to my mind say that you don't think much of folk who report unlicensed boats. I think I may therefore be forgiven for assuming that you see nothing wrong with folk who don’t bother to pay their way on the canals.

So, you think it is perfectly OK for boaters not to pay to licence or moor their boat even if this means that those who do pay have to pay more? If a boat is unlicensed, it is most unlikely it will have a BSS certificate. OK, I know there are problems with the BSS but at least if the boat has a BSS certif. you know that at one time in the last 4 years the gas system on board was safe. If you are not bothered about folk using the canals without paying their way, I assume you don't mind mooring next to them and risking a gas explosion? Just interested to know why you think it is OK not to pay your way on the canals.

While I sympathise with you having a child who is wakened by any noises, the thought kept occurring to me as I read this thread "Why didn't you moor away form habitation and other boats and a pub?" I think that if you moor near a pub which is probably near habitation and with other boats, you must accept that there might be some noise. I don't see how else the hire boat could have moored to the grassy bank without hammering in pins and to leave the engine running till the boat was securely moored could be considered a wise precaution. Nine pm is not late to be boating at this time of year. I am not a light sleeper but I would imagine that if I was, I could be wakened by people just walking along the towpath chatting quietly if one of my windows was open. Being near a pub and presumably habitation, you might well get dog walkers out at that time of night and again, even if they are just walking along, it could disturbing for a light sleeper. I think the solution is for you to select your moorings so that you reduce the chance of you and your child being disturbed. Enjoy your peaceful boating!

I am a bit surprised by the suggestion that all locks should have the cill marked. I thought they did already! My recollection is that there is a white mark on the inside of the lock wall indicating the end (or start) of the cill. Sometimes this is accompanied by the word "cill" or even "sill" but I can't think off hand of a lock that doesn't have the cill marked. Sometimes there is a metal vertical plate but more often just a white painted line.

It doesn't matter that you have little expereince of operating locks as BW do them all for you. Most people who hire from Falkirk start by going up the Wheel then cruising to Edinburgh - over 30 miles with no locks on a very pretty canal. In Edinburgh the terminus of the canal is very near the city centre and all that it offers. You then return to the Wheel and go down onto the Forth and Clyde canal which is deeper and wider than the Union and here you will encounter locks and lift/swing bridges but BW do them all for you. The downside of this is that you have to fit in with their times (they may have other boats to move) but most people don't find that that is a problem. On the way into Edinburgh you will go though the historic town of Linlithgow which has a palace where Mary Queen of Scots is reputed to have stayed. You get good views of the Forth rail and road bridges as well as Edinburgh Castle etc. Linlithgow and Edinburgh are both worth exploring away form the canal. On the Forth and Clyde canal you pass through Kirkintilloch which is also worth a wander around and in Glasgow you will again moor near the city centre. If you have more specific questions, just ask! I have a web site which contains lots of photos of both canals at www.nbgamebird.co.uk and you may find these give you a flavour of the area. There are several hotels in Falkirk but I hesitate to recommend one as I have never stayed in any but the hire base should be able to help you here.

Some comments on some of the points which have been raised. You are not restricted to cruising one area. The owners agree every year where to moor the boat for the following year and this gives an opportunity to see the whole connected system. But even if the owners don't agree to change moorings, you canal arrange with fellow owners to do away from base changeovers and the boat can actually be away for ages if several owners decide to do this. OwnerShips will arrange servicing etc round where you want to change over. With you own boat, if you want to cruise another area, you have to move the boat there and back yourself, probably using up scarce holiday time to do this. I am not talking about liveaboards or continuous cruisers here who are definitely not candidates for shared ownership of a boat. As I said at the beginning, shared ownership suits some people and not others and that's fine. Life would be boring if we all wanted the same thing.

Re strong personalities deciding moorings etc. I can't see how this can happen, at least with OwnerShips, as each owner has an equal voice and items like this should be decided on a majority vote. However, with Copperkins (we have had share in her for about 15 years now), we have never had to have a vote as we discuss things and when we have all listened to other points of view, we come to a decision. We have also agreed that "things" which we all might use are left on board. Things like tea, coffee, coal, sticks, loo roll etc are all kept on board and we have a” library" which one of the owners replenishes every year. I suppose every boat is different but we as a group are all now great friends and we never pass up an opportunity to meet up although we live all over the UK. Re possible abuse of the boat, this sometimes happens but when the other owners point out that more care should be taken, it usually is. A log is kept on board for everyone to write trio reports etc in. Be careful, however, when shopping around shared schemes, either private or from one of the big companies and check the agreement before signing. One company I know retains a share in every boat which means that they can dictate what happens to that boat and another company doesn't allow the boats to change base every year.

We have had owned a bit of about for about 15 years now and it works for us although it might not work for everyone. It is much cheaper than hiring and you know the boat you will be holidaying on and you have that feeling that a bit of that boat is yours. However, because the boat is shared, you can't just decide one sunny Friday that you will go boating as another owner will probably have booked that week. I can only speak for OwnerShips who manage our boat but they are engaged by the owners of the boat to manage it to the owner’s instructions. This means that the owners decide where the boat will be based and whether she will be painted tartan or a lovely shade of pink and OwnerShips will carry out the instructions. Why not visit the OS message board and ask questions there? http://pub2.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?se...ernum=153944258

BW certainly want to encourage boating, as do most folk who live beside the canal but those who live near anti social boaters and not surprisingly not so keen :-) To get permission (I think that's the right word) to put a boat on the canal, you need several things. You need a boat (!), which must be insured for the approriate third party amount (not sure if it is 2 or 3 £m), has a valid Boat Safety Scheme certificate and has a mooring. As the only mooring providers on the Lowland canals at the moment are BW, they ate really in control of everything. However, they are a reasonable bunch and they are well aware that they need a lot more moving boats on the canals to bring them alive.

Reunion is not a residential boat but is used as a community trip boat. I have no knowledge of the other boat which is moored there and as I said, the folk to approach are BW Scotland in Glasgow. There have been residential moorings at Ratho since long before the canal was reopened and the planning permission a few years ago just made them "legal". I think they are full at the moment. Apparently, BW Scotland has to get palnning permision for residential moorings. I undestand that there is one or more residential boat at Harrison Park but I don't know their position, apart from the fact that they apear to be upsetting local residents with what is being seen as anti social behaviour.

Mooring in Lochrin basin costs £100 per metre per annum but I don't know if residential boats are allowed to moor there. Best speak to BW Scotland about the availability of moorings on the Union canal. I know someone on here recently was looking for a residential mooring in or near Edinburgh and I think he was offered Auchinstarry on the Forth & Clyde canal (near Kilsyth but also near Croy station for commuting to Edinburgh ). There are no continuous cruising licences on the Lowland canals. If you wnat to be able to take your boat to sea seriously (like taking it down the coast to England) I don't think a canal boat is what you need. Perhaps you should look at the possibility of living on a sea going boat and keeping it in one of the marinas on the Firth of Forth. Don't know what the regs are about residential boats there though. The Union canal has depth and width restrictions which might also limit the type of boat you could have there. However, I take it that you have never actually experienced being on a canal boat and it might be a good idea to hire one for a week or so first to find out if the lifestyle suits you - and if the sun shines every day, try to imagine what it will be like when it is cold and wet. Not trying to put you off but so many people think that living on a boat will be fun and it can be but not everyone can adapt to the lack of space etc.

I heard of an ex Black Prince hire boat (now called Jannock) which had a problem with the loo holding tank and I wonder if this could be your problem. Apparenty, the loo holding tank has a baffle (think this is the correct word, a sort of divider) in the middle to stop all the contents sloshing from one side to the other and causing handling problems. There had been a build up of "stuff" on one side of the baffle and when the tank was pumped out, this side was not being emptied. Graham tackled the problem by hand and I seem to recall at the time that he said that the contents of the "stuck" side of the loo tank were actually not too bad to deal with, being sort of solidified :-). It may be worth emailing Graham via his web site at http://website.lineone.net/~familykeens/ On the other hand thsi may be a red herring.

Bearing in mind that this fellow has already told lies to throw people off the scent, I wonder if his story about doing the boat up to sell it in Oxford is also a pack of lies. Would it not seem more likely that he is changing the appearance of the boat with the intention of taking it near his home and living on it, perhaps in an area where there are a lot of liveaboards and no one asks very many questions - parts of the GU for instance? He may have decided to leave the rat race thus leaving his van at Middlewich may not have been much of a loss to him. However, he must have needed money for food and fuel and paint etc since he left Middlewich, so how is he getting it? Are the Police keeping an eye on his bank accounts and credit cards? Just a thought

That's good news! The basin at Auchenstarry (Kilsyth) is very nice with good facilities. You must make sure your boat is there by August 11th when the Scottish Inland Waterways Association is having a "summit muster" there. We are hoping to attract sea going as well as canal based boats for a weekend of fun and jollification. It is a "Summit" muster as Auchenstarry is on the summit pound of the Forth and Clyde canal. If you want to go to Edinburgh or Glasgow, Croy station is only about a mile away.

The problem caused by some residential boaters is that they don't really live on their boats but spread themselves around the surrounding area. This is fine if it is tidy but sadly that is not often the case and it can make a bit of a blot on the landscape in a residential area. There also seems to be reluctance to burn smokeless fuel, especially when the wind is blowing the smoke form a boats chimney straight in the living room window of a nearby house. Then there is the generator running late at night and/or the "music" being produced by the boaters sitting outside their boat showing everyone within earshot what lousy musicians they really are :-). All of this does not make for a harmonious relationship with those who live nearby and it sort of colours their judgment about all boaters. I hasten to add that there are several residential boaters who are considerate of those around them. I have seen or heard of instances of what some might call antisocial behaviour on most residential moorings. Good luck and let us know how you get on Haggis