Tony1

Thanks Arthur, if I do have the moral fibre to winter on the Llan, it shouldn't be too hard to coordinate with Mountbatten's route so that I can pick up a dozen bags of coal before I get to Trevor, and then I'm good for at least a month in the basin if the fancy takes me. If I were as hardy as our Mrs Haggis, a dozen bags would see me through the entire Winter, but alas I am a rather nesh sassenach. I'm not a big fan of mooring broadside-on alongside boats for weeks on end as you do in marinas and basins, but it'll probably be quiet in December or Jan, so its probably worth paying CRT for a month's worth of Winter mooring, if I like the place. They tell me there's even electricity there (although they don't talk about the cost), so it may be time to break out the jacuzzi. Good times ahead, methinks.

One of the jobs on my ever expanding list is to install a shallow tray underneath my water pump, with a water leak detector/alarm inside it. I think I pinched the idea from one of your posts. My water pump is sited under the front steps, and it started leaking about 2 weeks after I got the boat. I only found out about the leak because the water spread along the plywood floor, under the steps, and into the carpet I had at the time. The carpet was due to be replaced anyway, but I've put vinyl plank flooring down instead, and unlike the carpet, it will not show any signs of water leaking underneath it. The water pump will have been less than 6 years old (as was the boat), and it seems that kind of period is not uncommon as a lifespan for these pumps. It might be under more stress because I don't have an accumulator in my system, and I do usually run the water at a slow rate, which means the pump goes on and off every second or so. My other job will be to install an accumulator and perhaps reduce the stress on the pump, but I think installing a tray and a leak detector is something that will at some point in the future save me from a lot of mess and hassle, lifting the floors, sucking the leaked water from the bilge, and all the other unpleasant hassle involved with a leaking water pump that goes undetected for a while. After that, I'll be putting leak detectors in the bilges.

This forum is so informative. Next time I book in for a blacking I'm going to ask specifically about how the boat will be supported, and whether there will be a support under the engine. If they say only two supports, I'll probably give them a miss.

Last summer I was a regular visitor to the large and small shops in Whitchurch, Ellesmere and St Martins, and of course Chirk, and I occasionally popped into places like Oswestry, Wrexham, Wem and even Prees for a bit of a change. Its not that I dont know where the various places are, but more that I'm not sure what life would be like there in winter, and relying on a bike for transport. Its one thing to visit a nice rural spot in summer, with lots of boats going past and the odd one stopping, and with late nights and warm weather etc. But it's quite another thing to stay in a more remote rural place when its dark at 4pm, its too cold/windy/wet to be comfortable outside for very long, and there's not a soul about. The places I wintered around last year were very quiet (apart from Chester), but there were always a few people about, and at least half a dozen boats each day. I'm guessing it might be a bit quieter on the Llan. That means you can more easily find places to moor closer in to the towns whenever you want to, I guess. Re the overstaying, I think lots of people took the mick a bit last winter as the lockdowns were only starting to fully lift, and plenty of people stayed put on 48 hour moorings for a few weeks because of covid. I dont agree with any boaters hogging a mooring spot for the entire winter- that's totally out of order. But I've noticed that CRT do not chase people even after 14 days during the winter. They definitely seem to relax the normal rules a bit. I spoke to one GRP boater who was only asked to move on two weeks into March, after being in the same spot for 4 months. You have to ask what's the point of living on a boat if you don't want to go anywhere, but that's a different issue. The point I'm making is that they definitely turn a blind eye to overstaying a bit, as long as the location is not busy. Hopefully the Llangollen teams are not too zealous during the winter months.

Does anyone know if the fuel boat goes all the way to the basin? I think its Mountbatten, the one that moors near Swanley Bridge. Unlike last year, it looks as if most of the Llan will remain open for most of the next winter, so I'm pondering whether to spend 2 or 3months there when it gets a bit quieter, maybe starting early Nov. But I might have the old rose-tinted glasses on. It was lovely being in those quiet rural spots (e.g. around Whixall Moss) during the summer, what with the warm and late evenings and the general 'holiday-camp' vibe with all the hire boaters, but I'm not sure my 13 mile grocery ride to Whitchurch and back will be so much fun when the roads are potentially icy, and with it getting dark around 4pm. That said, the winters are getting less severe, and the number of truly icy days seems to have reduced, so I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's a spent a few months there during the winter. Last winter the closures restricted things a bit, but I moved between Nantwich, Middlewich, Northwich, and back around to Chester and Ellesmere Port a few times, so there were plenty of towns and facilities. But I'm conscious that on the Llan, the towns are fewer and the shopping trips can be longer, unless you stay close to the towns. And on a general note, are the full time liveaboards starting to give some thought to what might be a good cruising area for the winter?

Of course, yes. I'm forgetting that I do these trips on my bike which makes it much quicker and easier, but if the OP hasn't got at least one bike, that would be a tidy walk into Bunbury.

Ellesmere Port is a teeny bit drab if I'm honest, but the museum basin is a nice peaceful place to moor for a couple of days- although its now £10 per night and you book online via the CRT website. Bear in mind there might be a party/function on at the Holiday Inn if its a Friday or Saturday, although personally I've never found the noise level unpleasant. The station is only 500 yards away and its a 40 min ride to Liverpool city centre, if that appeals for the shopping etc. A couple of miles south of Ellesmere Port you can stop near Cheshire Oaks shopping outlet (which has the Blue Planet aquarium close by), and a mile or two further south there are some very quiet mooring spots near Stoak, with the Bunbury Arms nearby, which is quite decent. The truth is that the 7 or 8 mile stretch between Chester and Ellesmere Port is not that interesting in terms of local places of interest, but if you moor at bridge 134 (pretty bridge), its a short walk uphill to Chester Zoo, but I think its almost £30 entry now, so bear that in mind. If you do stop there, the suburb of Upton is less than a mile walk from the canal, and the Wheatsheaf pub there does a reasonably decent full english (not sure about the rest of the menu). Arthur is right about Christleton- there are a few nice spots to moor between Waverton and Christleton, but there's pretty much bugger all of interest from a touristy point of view (apart from that pub a bit further to the north- I think its called the Cheshire Cat)- although it is a short bus ride from Christleton into Chester. Unless its peace and quiet you are after, I'd push on and stop somewhere above the staircase locks for a day or two, then go down those locks into the basin for another couple of days. Basically, maximise your time around Chester as its the most interesting location. If you're really enjoying it, you can then moor outside the shower and toilet facilities next to the basin for a another couple of days, before heading north. There are plenty of clumps of floating weed once you pass bridge 134, but just cut the revs as you pass through them and you should be fine. I've done that stretch a few times recently and not had the prop fouled yet (touch wood of course). To the south of Chester, some people stop at bridge 109 for the well-known pub there (whose name I can't remember!) I remember there was a local deli/butcher/food shop in Bunbury (Burrows I think), that seemed to be frequented by local people in Range Rovers and the like, so it was quite posh, but I recall the food from there was very very nice.

The boating course is a helpful aid in learning to steer and generally handle the boat. Spending time living on a boat is at this point a far more important thing, as it will let you know how happy you will be living in a smaller space with more constrained facilities and utilities. E.g. if the water tank is say 450 litres/100 gallons, bear in mind a single 5 minute shower will use very roughly 10% of your total water, so you may need to use the 'navy shower' technique, for example, where you stop the water flow whilst you are lathering and soaping, and you only turn it back on to rinse off. There will be very little storage space compared to a house, especially if you start accumulating tools and general boating paraphernalia, so there may be pressure to reduce wardrobe size, and carry fewer large personal items- e.g. if you have 2 or 3 bikes, a couple of kayaks, or similar bulky items, not all of that stuff will fit on a 50ft narrowboat.. Are you going to be ok perhaps having to empty toilet cassettes every 3 to 6 days (depending on whether you have a spare cassette)? Or during winter, filling your tank with water at a facilities point, with your water hose laying in muddy grass or puddles? Or tossing 25kg bags of coal onto the roof, and dragging them off again when needed? There are lots of little compromises you have to make as a liveaboard, especially if you are a continuous cruiser. There are some lovely aspects to it, but it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea- and its very hard to know if you're going to be ok with all that stuff until you actually try it out. My ex partner thought the lifestyle sounded great, but after a boat holiday she immediately and permanently dropped any ideas of living on a narrowboat. There is also a psychological issue at play, for me anyway- which is getting used to the idea that your house is sat beside a public towpath, with nothing between you and anyone who passes, whether it be a lovely old lady walking her dog, or a gang of young chavs with a stolen motorbike. There is a slight but ever-present sense of impermanence about it, which maybe goes to the heart of the idea of nomadic living, but which some people don't feel comfortable with. Some people prefer bricks and mortar for that sense of solidity and permanence. So anyway, a week living on a boat could answer that question for you, before you get involved in an expensive purchase process. A week in winter will also give you an insight into dealing with the permanently muddy stretches of towpath that you will encounter, the fewer daylight hours you get (meaning more time spent inside the boat), etc.

If you have a really hard budget limit, then definitely set aside a couple of thousand of that (at least) for spending in the first year aboard. The batteries might be knackered, or the engine might need some major work, or it might be the water pump that goes, as it was on the my boat (at five years old). Or you might want to buy a full set of cordless tools for the various external jobs you can do yourself, like paint stripping or sanding. There seem to be a hundred items that you suddenly want to get as a liveaboard. If you're CCing, you might ditch the car which means a bike will come in really handy, so you'll need a rack, panniers, and a good bike lock. There seem to be loads of simple, silly things that are not individually expensive, but which can quickly add up to a lot of money. E.g. A 'brolley-mate' to hold a clothes dyer in place on the stern, plus a clothes airer. You'll definitely need a hose if the previous owner took it with him/her, and then there are things like spare ropes (most of my ropes were just about knackered when I got my boat), mooring pins, mallet, nappy pins, some kind of wifi/phone signal setup, decent wellies or boots for cruising in winter, a good waterproof set, a sun hat, a bucket or two, a hand pump in case you have a leak somewhere, half a dozen torches (head torches are really handy doing jobs in poorly lit spaces), it just goes on and on. Perhaps a low power kettle and microwave if your batteries and electrics are up to it, and probably suitable bedding (its 4ft wide in most narrowboats). There will be a few aspects of the interior or the electrics that you'll probably want to change, and as a liveaboard you'll want to fit plenty of solar panels- its one of the few electrical jobs you can do yourself to save a few quid, with advice from the folks here. Those are just a few examples of the sorts of items you might suddenly realise you want, so allow for some significant spending in the first year.

I think there are volunteers at the staircase locks on many days. That said, there were no vollies on the day I went down them in early Feb, so perhaps its not guaranteed in Winter. I had a right old palaver in the middle chamber, being 'helped' through by a novice friend who I suspect hadn't paid enough attention when I was explaining the basic principle for staircase locks! She did get some advice from a more experienced boater, but so far below and with the water noise, I couldn't hear much of what was going on up top, and I nearly gave up and went up the lock ladder to see if I could help. I've found you can tell newcomers about locks, and being careful, and paddles ertc, but it doesnt seem to sink in until your boat is there in the lock and the water is flooding in, or draining out, and it suddenly hits home with them that the forces involved are pretty large, and the hazards are real, and they really need to pay attention. But I did see at least two vollies at those locks on subsequent visits to the basin. As a singlehander I would go through on a weekday (avoiding Monday mornings), to make sure its not too busy, but also in the expectation that I would get some help from vollies. I wouldn't really fancy doing them alone - the middle chamber seems to always leak, and the sides appear very high when you're on the boat, and its a long way to climb back down to the boat if you should need to.

Er, yeah, but no, that's fine thanks. I'm not saying my hobbies and interests are better than anyone else's, of course, but they definitely don't include making detailed assessments of my faeces. Its just not my bag. The surprise for me is that there are at least 5,000 people who do enjoy analysing and record their poo using an app. That's a head scratcher is that.

I would've asked: 'Can you do a keyhole wee?' (Well I would ask that now, obviously. I knew nothing about the great variety of female urination methods before the extensive lessons of yesterday). I hope you will pardon my morbid curiosity: Does your friend analyse his stools for medical reasons, or is it a recreational thing?

I struggle with this issue personally. On one hand, common sense tells me that these burglars (and in fact most of the louts we see on our streets) would not have ended up as they are, if their upbringing had been different. If that burglar had been taken out of their working class home as a newborn child, placed in a wealthy household and sent to public school for ten years, he would not have ended up a burglar, but a banker. Likewise if the gang of ten young lads who cause trouble outside an off-license had been born and raised in the 1940s, their behaviour and attitude to society would have been totally different. The 'raw material' of these children is surely largely the same as it was 50 or 100 years ago- it is the society and parenting around them that have changed. Whatever they are, for better or worse, is what we've made them. The other side of the issue is the more practical one. Yes we've caused this problem collectively as a society (and I'm not convinced its quite as bad as many believe anyway)- but regardless of the cause, there is a real-life impact from these youngsters that needs to be addressed. I dont believe personally that society is protecting people well enough from becoming victims of crime, or chasing the perpetrators after a crime. A lot of it comes down to there being thousands fewer policemen on the streets than there were even two decades ago, but I lived for a while in a street where a local family had a youngster aged 16 or 17 whose gang was a nuisance and a threat to the entire street. At some point I stopped worrying so much about how he ended up as he did, and thought more why the hell he couldn't be stopped by the law or anyone else. I guess what I'm driving at is that society is not only letting down these youngsters, but also their victims, and at some point they might have to treated more harshly just to stop them inflicting suffering on so many others around them. It doesnt feel fair to 'get tough' on these youngsters (in terms of sentencing etc), but if you are a victim thats where your thoughts go.

Praise the Lord, sir. I thought you were a goner. But relationships can be very risky at times. I remember one occasion my ex partner was bemoaning not being able to fit into some trousers she had in the bottom of her wardrobe. Ever the practical man, and always ready with a positive solution, I suggested that she should reduce her intake of cakes and confectionery. Despite this kind and supportive suggestion, she flew off the handle and I was almost beaten senseless with a perfume bottle. Go figure, as they say.... The lesson from that experience was: We Don't Make Jokes About Weight. We just don't.

My ex wife and I were burgled a few decades ago and I do recall feeling a bit 'invaded', although I never lost any sleep over it. But it didnt feel very nice knowing that almost everything in the house, including of course all of your personal things, have been pored over as part of deciding what to nick etc. But women are generally more attuned to any potential threats of physical violence than men (for obvious reasons), and I think for a woman there is an added unpleasant dimension, which is that sometimes the burglars might have rifled through clothes, underwear etc as part of their search (and maybe deliberately). I am just guessing, and its so long ago that I cant remember my we-wife even mentioning that element at the time, but I bet its a consideration. I agree it seems an extreme word for the theft of some personal items, but I can understand why they would choose it, at least in some cases.

I must say Ms B, its nice to see the boaters there giving each other a half-decent space, and not mooring too close. Nothing worse than coming out onto the stern deck at 0700 hours- before the hair and make-up team have been- and seeing a boat six inches away from yours. I thought darn sarf you all moored on top of each other (and that's not innuendo- or not deliberate anyway). I'm thinking of visiting my daughter in London towards the end of this year, but I've been put off by the thought of it being very crowded with boats, and struggling for a mooring spot. PS- apologies, I don't speak cockney rhyming slang. I have watched some Sweeny episodes but I can never quite get it right.

Well you certainly have very lovely topsides Ms Balloon 😂 (I'm sorry Ms B, the scope for innuendo with boats is almost too much- my brain is starting to fry)

No it is that easy, really. I don't even care if you are an axe murderer. I'll just hide all the axes You can service my engine any time, and that is not an innuendo. The 1400 mile service is due any day now. I prefer an ancient Roman style wedding. Do you have a preference?

I think I'm in love

I don't know tbh, but if I could find a woman who was not only able, but willing to deal with that most unsavoury of duties, I think I would agree to wash the dishes, eat gruel and sleep on the roof, and let her and the dog take the bedroom.

Joking aside, taking an active role in the growing up of 11 year old girl is not a snag, but rather an honour, and I'm certain you'll find a decent guy who doesn't mind washing some dishes whilst you change the oil 😀 Sadly the friend who was asking is an elderly gentleman approaching 60, and he would be much too old to be washing dishes at the sort of frequency that you two young ladies would need them to be washed. It gave him quite a turn just to think about it. So he said 😀

Re the dish washing, are you looking specifically for the theoretical ability to wash dishes (which I have in abundance), or does the person have to pretend to be willing? And as for you doing the man jobs, well I must say that I have nothing but praise for someone who is keen to do work that I would otherwise have to do. And especially when the work is grimy, oily, exhausting and uncomfortable. The idea of a partner saying 'oh no, you handsome devil - we cant have you getting dust on that lovely skin. Pass me that sanding block, and you can sit down and put the football on'.... But surely with this sort of attitude, there is a line of boating gentlemen beating a path to your door? There has to be a snag. Are you an axe-murderer at all? Asking for a friend.

Alas, I see not the PMs of which you speak.

Lead acid batteries are a hard limit for me, I'm afraid. I may be nearly 60, but I'm very much down with the kids, daddio. You should come over to the dark side. Get some lithium in your life 😀

In anything, my dear boy. It's the lithium that does it for me.... I think any future partner of mine would have to be at least lithium-curious.