Tony1

In another couple of weeks the fire will be on 24/7 so there will be no need for kindling more than once every few weeks, but in the interim weather I've been trying out charcoal as kindling. This is a bit nuts if I'm honest, because the lumpwood charcoal lights fairly easily anyway, but I add a few quirts of barbecue lighting fluid over the charcoal just to make sure its all lit quickly and evenly. Then I immediately add about 7-10 coal briquettes, allowing spaces for the air to move, and I leave the stove door ajar until I can see the charcoal is glowing red. Once its glowing, I know the coal will eventually catch fire. Due to incompetence I have had a few times when the wood kindling burnt out before the coal was properly lit, and I had to start all over again. Charcoal seems to burn longer than kindling wood, and a 5kg bag will be enough to start at least 7-10 fires, so at the moment I'm using it in lieu of wood kindling.

It's quite possible I'm kidding myself with this, but I did find a voltage vs SoC graph on a solar power forum, and one of the members tweaked it to add more data points. As we know, the graph of resting voltage vs SoC doesn't go up in a straight diagonal line, and there are large sections that are quite flat, but looking at the section between say 30% SoC and 40% SoC, it seems a bit easier to derive the SoC from the voltage, so I use that section to do an occasional reality check that my measured SoC (using the BMV712) is consistent with the voltage. The graph tells me that the resting voltage at 30% SoC will be about 13.00v, and the voltage at 40% will be about 13.10. So what I do personally is to assume that 31% SoC is equivalent to 13.01, 32% SoC is 13.02v, and so on up to 13.10v. What I should do is to plug in the laptop and use the valence software to get more accurate voltage measurements (I think it goes to 5 decimal places), but on a day to day basis I cant be arsed with that, so I'm looking for a quick and dirty method, but one that is still accurate enough to monitor the batteries well enough for my needs, and to prevent me damaging them. Tbh the real challenge in knowing the true battery voltage for me seems to be that they are very rarely at rest for any length of time. So the resting voltage is a thing that never really happens in day to day use, which makes these graphs of limited use - without some further messing about. My solution, in order to estimate what the resting voltage would be at any given time, is to compensate for the voltage drops and rises that are caused by the loads and the charges that are constantly being applied to the batteries. After many months of observing how the voltage changes when the batteries are subjected to a wide variety of loads and charging currents, I think I have an idea of how to estimate what the resting voltage would be. And its not even that simple. For example, just as lead acid batteries do, for several hour after a high-current charge (in my case 100 amps or more), the lithium battery voltage seems to stay 'falsely' high. There are times when I know the batteries have been charged to say 80% SoC, but their voltage stays at 13.3v or higher for several hours, even under a moderate load. This sort of voltage would normally correspond to a SoC of 90% or more, but within a few hours it seems to subside and the voltage appears to correspond to the SoC. This 'surface charge' type of behaviour may be a specific feature of the valence batteries with their magnesium, or it may just be the electrical pixies at work again. Some things I'm just better off not knowing.

If you've not yet tried canal boating in winter conditions (even early winter like November), it might not be immediately apparent how muddy it can get. It's very likely there'll be some rain either before or during your trip, and once you get into November there are some stretches of towpath that seem to stay muddy for days and days. So whoever is working the paddles and gates will be trudging through several inches of mud in some locations, even if its not raining on that day. This is only my way of doing it, but what I do is to wear wellies when cruising, but also keep some other footwear near to the door so I can kick off the wellies and slip into the clean dry footwear whenever I step back inside the boat. That saves me having to clean up the mud that would otherwise get walked into the boat. Another thing to bear in mind when cruising in colder weather is just how chilled you can get standing on the stern for 6 or more hours of the day, so once it gets into November I always wear thick gloves, and at least one extra pair of socks, and often two extra pairs (the wellies let more of the cold air down to your feet). I can't pretend I actually enjoy cruising in the rain and cold, but at the same time bad weather doesnt have to spoil your holiday, as long as everyone is prepared. If I remember it right, early November has been fairly dry the last couple of years, so fingers crossed you might get a pretty nice week.

I'm certainly no electrical expert, but I do know that a normal narrowboat will have an engine starter battery, plus a few batteries to power the domestic electrics, so I'm sure yours will have that kind of setup. Your boat will have a decent battery bank for winter, but purely out of interest its nice to take a look at the domestic battery voltage an hour or two after you stop the engine, and again later in the evening. Unless you're in the pub, of course. Its all about priorities 😄 As a liveaboard boater, the batteries are super important to me, and I find myself checking the voltage and state of charge % at least once every hour, just from habit. Nick Norman (of this parish) has made allegations that I have some sort of ongoing romantic relationship with my lithium batteries, on the flimsy pretext that I read bedtime stories to them, and tuck them in at night. The truth is even worse. In fact I'm so careful that I only read from 20 to 80% of each bedtime story. (That's a terrible lithium battery in-joke, one that normal people should be thankful they don't get.)

The thing is that when I hired, I cant remember being told anything about batteries or voltages, so I wouldn't have known where to look anyway. Thats probably why many hire boat batteries are not in great shape. But I don't want to cause any alarm- for people hiring in winter, they will make sure you have a decent bank of batteries to keep the CH running. The last thing they want is to have to send someone out in a van with a new battery. But there's no harm in you keeping an eye on the battery voltage, just out of interest as a potential future boat owner. At a very basic level there's a well-published scale that tells you roughly how much charge is left in a lead acid battery- you estimate the remaining charge by looking at the voltage. The snag is the voltage needs to be read when the battery is resting, which it very rarely is when there are people living aboard. But anyway, it'll be fine- they wont send you out in November with a duff domestic battery bank.

When I was returning my hire boat, I had this idea that 'they have to have the boat back right on time, or they might lose their £1000 fee from the next hire person' - and there were dire warnings of penalties if we were late. But by the end of the first week of November, I suspect half the hire boats will no longer be in regular use. The Llangollen might be an exception with it being so pretty and so popular, but I remember passing the hire base at Bunbury locks last winter (to be fair I think it was January), and it looked as if every boat they had was moored up and unused. Just a thought here, but in November you're going to need the heating on. I'm guessing it will have diesel CH rather than a coal stove, so keep your eye on the battery voltage. My hire boat had a knackered battery. It was flat by 9pm after a 7 hour cruise (ie lots of charging), followed by 2 hours of TV with the CH on, which is not a lot of power. They probably make sure the batteries are ok in winter as they know the CH heating is essential (especially on those cold mornings), but just a thought.

Wales is such a lovely country, it truly is. It's the same thing with Scotland- I can still remember the first time I passed through those huge glens, and saw the western coastline with its incredible scenery where the sea meets the mountains. And I can remember thinking- yes, I get it now. I can see why you people love this country so much.

I hope you'll excuse me harping on, but just a thought: if you do stick your neck out a bit timewise in order to make it to say Trevor, or indeed Llangollen, the time you might find yourself gunning it will be on the return journey, and that is the one that could turn into an 8 hour slog each day. I'm not sure if this is going to be feasible, but one thing I would try to do is press on during the evening and make some miles, if that means you will be ready to go through a lock flight early. The boat traffic might be no problem at all by now, but I remember last July there was a queue of 16 boats to go down through the New Marton locks by 10am, so that took a while. I set off to go through Grindley Brook at 8.30am (I think it was mid Sept last year), and there were already two boats ahead of me, and one coming the other way. You dont want the whole return journey to be a 5mph slog with hardly any stops, but if you do want to press on a bit, the time that it makes more sense is when it means you can get close to a lock flight and make an early start next morning to beat any queues. I would have added an hour to my wait at Grindley Brook if I'd arrived there at say 10am, for example. I'm sure by now the traffic will have reduced a lot, and you'll probably not see many queues (if any), but you'll get a feel for the traffic level when you're on the outward journey, and you can plan accordingly. If I was doing that trip (which I will be in week or so!) as a hire boater, I'd be temped to put my foot down, and try to get past Grindley Brook as soon as possible. The first day or so is the time to put in some hours, as there's not much of interest to a family on holiday. E.g. Wrenbury only has one small shop, and there's not a great deal to see really. I thought that Whitchurch was the area when it started to get more interesting, so maybe thats the place you can take things a bit slower, and have a leisurely stroll into town, maybe a meal out etc. Anyway, I'm stating the obvious again- apologies. And have a great trip.

I half remember that old saying- to travel hopefully is better than to arrive (or something like that). In the context of narrowboat cruising, I find it an interesting question- is the journey more important, or reaching the destination? Its probably a mixture of both, with the proportions depending on an individual's character, and on the journey type. In the case of 8000 metre mountaineers, for example, reaching the top is everything, and the climb itself is often an unpleasant and exhausting grind. Personally, I went as far as Trevor basin last summer, but I was starting to find the increased boat traffic a bit tiresome, and I ended up turning around and heading back towards Chirk, with the idea of coming back at a future (quieter) time in order to reach Llangollen itself I do totally understand that with the restricted boating time you have, there will be an approach of making the most of it- so 6 hours cruising per day will not seem like an imposition or a chore of any kind. But with there being others aboard who are perhaps less invested in the experience of cruising, I think you are right to wonder if some form of compromise would be wise. I went on a hire boat holiday almost a decade ago, and I remember I set a target destination based on average speed and cruising hours per day, etc. Having mileage targets to meet each day did start to take the edge off of the enjoyment a little bit, and it meant we didnt stop at all the places we would have. And when we did stop, it was not for as long as we might have liked to. Its one thing to say 'we cant stop for milk because we need to reach X place today', but its a bit more of a problem when you find yourself saying: 'we cant take a walk into that valley underneath the aqueduct, because it might stop us reaching Llangollen.' What is happening in the latter case is that you are giving up what could be really nice local experiences, in order to carry on chugging towards your destination. Ultimately you could catch a bus or cab into Llangollen if you get within say 10 miles of it, but if you hit a queue or other delay of any sort, I would advise not trying to make up the time by putting the throttle down and going 4mph for the rest of the day. It makes sense to have a goal of getting to Llangollen, but don't let yourself slip into that mindset where it becomes a crusade.

I missed what looked like a right kerfuffle about to happen when I came through there southbound. There was a boat following me about a hundred yards behind. I never saw them later on, so I assume they were wanting to get up through the locks. I think it was around midday so it was never going to be quiet there, but there was a queue of I think 3 or 4 boats waiting on the towpath for their turn to go up the flight. I then noticed a boat slowly emerging from the bottom lock, although I dont know if he was headed north or south. The boat on the lock landing was slowly pulling out to get into the lock, and the front boat in the queue on the towpath was starting to edge across to take his place on the lock landing. I think the boats in the queue were getting a bit anxious when they saw the boat following me, and they probably wanted to make sure their place wasn't taken. Then as I got through under the bridge I saw another boat coming towards me, and he then went through and into the junction northbound at a fair clip. So it looked like for the next few minutes there would be four boats on the move in that winding hole, mostly in different directions. Sadly heavy rain was imminent, so I didnt stay to watch how events unfolded, but it must have been a very interesting few minutes in there. This is why I rarely even bother to try a busy lock flight between 10am and 4pm. Don't get me wrong, it can be fun and I've often had help from hire boaters around me, and some lively chats with the families, but in places like Hurlstone where boats can come into the queue from two different directions it does seem to give rise to a bit of queue anxiety during the peak hours. Like Arthur , I much prefer to go through lock flights early doors if its feasible. In fact, I'm quite decadent doing them at 7am, he prefers 6am.

I have an odd feeling that things are not going to quiet down in November as much as they usually do.... But regardless, at Nantwich many of the visitor moorings state that they are 2 days max for the whole year, so there should never be any hunkering of any sort going on there, although I can understand it creeping in at other locations after the end of this month. Personally, I may actually move more often during this winter than during the summer, stoppages permitting. The peace and quiet is lovely to experience when on the move.

But surely that path will end up with them having their boats pulled out? I guess some people are more hard-nosed and will take more risks than other people, but for me there is also a selfishness at play. Everyone knows how popular the place is for boaters, and how busy. To stay on a 2 day mooring for weeks and weeks on end (without a genuine reason, e.g. breakdown), even if CRT are not chasing you- really does look like pure selfishness. I don't think it reflects at all well on the people who do it.

I don't really understand what's going on at Nantwich, I must admit. I know the spotters are out and about. In fact I got a polite email from CRT asking me to move on after I'd been stooging around for 5 months on the 8 mile stretch between Chester and Ellesmere Port (which included a total of 8 weeks in the museum basin at £70 per week). No complaints from me about that, it was a fair cop, and it was very unusual for me to stay in such a short stretch for so long. I was stretching the rules somewhat, trying to prolong my stay in the area for family reasons. In my defence there were hardly any boats around, so I wasn't blocking popular moorings etc. But I'd only been a week at Stoak when the 'sling your hook' email arrived, and Stoak is one of the quietest spots I've seen so far. No other boats moored there in that week (not very many even went past), and only one or two boats have stopped there on any of the other occasions I was moored there. But clearly the spotters are (quite rightly) walking even the very quiet stretches of canal where few boats travel, and if you are too slow moving- even taken over a cumulative period- they will quite rightly ask you to move further on. So there is surely zero possibility that these static boaters at Nantwich visitor moorings have not been spotted by now. In fact I reckon they will have been spotted many times over. If CRT are checking up at Stoak, they are definitely checking Nantwich. I guess its possible that one or two have genuine breakdown issues and cant move, and perhaps some others have medical issues that mean moving is difficult at the moment. Apologies if this seems hypocritical after I got a notice myself, but if I'm being honest its a bit out of order for an embankment full of them to park there for most of the summer. Something doesn't seem quite right there.

My first choice would be to head in the direction of Llangollen, but you'll want to stop at Whitchurch and Ellesmere , so it will be a push to do it all within a week, and especially since you dont want to spend all your time just cruising along. Even if you don't even reach the aqueducts before you have to turn back, its still the nicest cruise option. My second choice would be to visit Chester. There are some nice locks en route (in fact too many for my liking as a solo boater), and its a great place for a visit. Middlewich are Northwich are OK, but I didnt personally find the cruising quite as lovely as the other two routes.

To me, this latest wizard wheeze of CRT smacks of being an idea that started as a stick-it note scribbled in a management meeting, and has been allowed to develop into a real world project. Or perhaps, a solution looking for a problem. The key stipulation that it must be done within the existing budget suggests very strongly that there will be some facilities closures. Its difficult to see how any facilities can be improved to some 'minimum standard' without spending money. Unless some savings can be made by outsourcing facilities to marinas, as suggested above. But can you imagine all of the boat traffic around a busy facilities point in summer, suddenly being moved inside a nearby marina? The marina moorers probably wont be over the moon at the constant coming and going on top of their own existing traffic. Added to that, there are some posts here giving examples of marina facilities that apparently should be open to all CRT boaters, but have been restricted to moorers only, during the years following whatever agreement was initially made. And bear in mind that if a marina office is needed to gain access to say an elsan, the offices could well be closed at 5pm most days. So early evening facilities stops at those places will no longer be possible for passing boaters. And if a situation arises where priority has to be given between moorers and passing boaters, the marina will always give priority to their moorers. But even the consultancy period where they seek professional guidance to help them decide what the minimum standard actually is, will require a fair bit of person-hours, from people who get paid a lot of money per hour. And all of that will come from the existing facilities budget. In areas where you have two facilities points within a few miles, such as Calveley and Nantwich (and with no major lock flight in between) I feel it is almost inevitable that one of them will close. The thing is that this might not take account of how busy these places are, so you can imagine in summer the remaining facilities will be twice as busy as usual, and that's not going to be much fun. With boats spending up to an hour (and some more) filling water tanks, there are only so many boats that can use a given facilities point in one day, so I hope they take traffic levels and capacity into account. Since the minimum distance between the remaining points will supposedly allow for actual cruising time, in theory people should not be forced to use lock flights to get to facilities, but I think its likely people will sometimes find themselves going through flights to reach a facilities point, and then returning back through the same flight to their preferred mooring. So some lock flights might get busier. Its also possible that setting a minimum cruising range between facilities might throw up a theoretical need for new facilities to be installed, although the expense involved will mean that in those cases, CRT will of course be 'pragmatic', and will not build the required new facilities. They will reason that if the local facilities situation is 'not broken', so to speak (ie very few complaints), then they do not need to build new facilities. But conversely, when their assessment supports the closure of a given point, they will be only too willing to act on that, even if the boater feedback suggests that the local situation not 'broken'. My hope personally is that the feedback from boaters will be that taken as a whole, the facilities provision is not 'broken' (or not badly, anyway). This new project almost inevitably means facilities closures, and my bet is if that outcome is made clear, most boaters would opt for things to be left as they are.

Like many novice boaters, I can absolutely confirm Tracy's advice, from sad experience. I knew nothing of how to maintain batteries, and I had no idea how important it was that I should know about them. The result was that my first set of batteries were pretty much knackered within 2 weeks of me getting the boat. (I'm assuming its your first boat, so if that's wrong, please forgive me for stating the obvious etc.) If you do buy expensive ones, I would make a real effort to learn as much as possible about looking after them, before you start using them.

Great to see you out and about again Mrs H, and it stayed very nice for most of the day too, apart from that slight breeze 🤣. This year I'm aiming to cover more than 300 yards before you pass me on your return journey!

Sincere apologies for the derailing, Mrs H, and you are right of course. Thankfully you got the info you needed before the thread went off track. But it was wrong to indulge in political discussion outside of the politics section (even jokingly as I started out doing). It never seems to end well, which is why I usually try to avoid talking politics.

I think the point about hiring in Winter is to get more certainty that the conditions won't be too rough for the individual concerned. I suspect most hire boats will have diesel CH rather than a stove, and the problem there is that a new boater might get the impression that winter with only diesel CH is not very pleasant (as I found out myself). So they might be put off, whereas if they'd tried it with a stove, they'd have been fine. So the winter 'try out' does have that risk with it, and for that reason maybe October is a better bet, before it gets really cold. Setting aside the heat issue, most people cope ok with the various aspects of winter, but I think there are a few whose enjoyment is seriously impacted by one or more aspects of the conditions. That's probably one of the reasons why so few boats actually cruise in winter (compared to the other seasons). Personally, I saw plenty of muddy towpaths (and muddy country lanes) last winter- I guess it depends on where you cruise, and where you moor. I spent a week outside Tattenhall marina last January, and even in the 100 yard walk to the road my boots and bike wheels were covered in mud. Moved up to Chester and it was tarmac footpaths all the way, stepping out of the boat in decent clean shoes, and no mud in sight. But even the grassy areas around locks can get pretty muddy in winter, so your ropes get mud on them as well. Personally in muddy places I have a procedure that I always take off my footwear as soon as I step inside the door, to avoid spreading the mud and water around. Coal can also be a bit messy at times, bikes, clothes and footwear need more frequent cleaning, etc. You can sometimes feel a bit trapped in a muddy mooring on the long dark Winter evenings, when its really cold and/or wet outside, and some solo boaters have feelings of isolation on those long winter evenings. Like you, I'm not that sociable so I'm fine with it, but plenty of people don't take to the winters too well.

You are a good man Iain. I would like to think that I know one when I meet one. But you give me too much credit here. I will never knowingly make friends with any person who comes out to criticise me whilst at the same time defending the Daily Mail. As it is, I can barely tolerate communicating with the friends and family I already have who are of the tory persuasion. Politics has become too vicious in recent years, and there is absolutely no room for any more people of a right wing mentality in my life. And every time I hear of another four hour wait for an ambulance, or fuel bills skyrocketing, or the pound sinking to a new record low, my anger only grows. I can only add an insipid apology to the newly self-appointed forum police for having added another politically focused comment to the thread. But unlike you, Iain is a true gentleman, and I feel he deserves a reply. On the plus side for the shiny new forum police officers, I don't intend to make any further comment of a political nature. Not on this this thread.

OMG, are you telling me a thread on CWDF got derailed?!? Thank God you intervened in time. Well done. (Btw, I like these new forum police uniforms)

A poster speculated that the closure of a popular pub might be due to brexit, and the real world answer to that involves a discussion of politics. Any discussion involving escalating prices, staff shortages or the general economic situation will descend into politics. And since 2016, it has not been possible to have a political debate that is both honest and civilised. We live in a world where politics has become filled with hate, on both sides. It is what it is.

I was starting to get the impression that my posts were causing you annoyance, but if there is no personal malice intended from you then that's fair enough, I won't take your replies as a personal attack. ETA- just to return to the subject, I think it is worth repeating that I did not show hatred or anger in those earlier posts. What I did was that I joked about hatred, as the topic of discussion. And that is a very different thing from expressing hatred from myself to another. So I still think your reply was incorrect and unfair, even if it was not based on a personal dislike.

Great. Go you. But for both our sakes, since you clearly don't take any pleasure from my posts, and you seldom have anything positive to say in reply, I would recommend you set my profile to ignore. Alternatively, I'm quite happy to do the same to your profile.