Replacing Eberspacher fuel pipe coupling

[BlueStringPudding]

This weekend I serviced my Eberspacher by following that rather good Steev Stamford YouTube video. And for the first time in months the unit fired up today.

 

There is a diesel leak from the coupling that joins the external fuel pipe to the Eber unit which I've been monitoring for several months. As part of the service I loosened the offending coupling, cleaned it up and applied some non-setting gasket goop, then tightened it back up as a last ditch repair before finally resolving to replace the couplings if I must. As soon as the diesel shut off valve was released it stared dripping again. It drips about once every seven seconds. So I've decided to replace the coupling altogether.

 

Trouble is I'm not entirely sure on the size or type I need. This link is to the manual I found online: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHEQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blakkur.is%2Fskjol%2Fheimasida%2Fhydronic4_5.pdf&ei=qerbUreaHOT4ygPH4oCwAw&usg=AFQjCNGRcmVstRHr_b45eeJGDbdbrjxbzg

Pages 35 and 36 show parts 8 through to 11 which is the area in question. Page 36 talks about a 9mm clamp, a 3.5mm hose and a 2mm fuel line. I'm confused when you compare it to my set up.

 

My photo here shows the top of the actual fuel pipe itself and the coupling that is currently attached to it.

 

 

Ignore the mallet - just my little joke as what I was tempted to fine tune the Eberspacher with when I first uninstalled it! You can see top left that there is a brass coupling connecting the copper fuel line to the Eber. My number 10 spanner fits this coupling. And it's this I need to replace.

 

When I look online there are so many different size and shape couplings, some same size both ends and some different, I am perplexed. When I look at Eberspacher fuel line kits online they talk of 4mm copper fuel pipe which is different again! All I want is a brass coupling of the right size and shape to replace the leaking one,

 

So what do I buy?

 

 

 

Edited to add: Needless to say I have now shut off the fuel supply to the Eber till I can replace the offending part.

Edited January 19, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[steelaway]

Hi

 

It all looks like 4mm copper tube fittings which are readily available from compressed air shops. You may well be able to by a 4mm compression fitting to flex barb and avoid the second joint and connection to the flex.

 

See - http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_groups.php?v=1...&recall=true&products_categories=7&level2=90&products_groups=1460

 

And - http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_groups.php?v=1...&recall=true&products_categories=7&level2=90&products_groups=3503

 

Alex

[BlueStringPudding]

Hi

 

It all looks like 4mm copper tube fittings which are readily available from compressed air shops. You may well be able to by a 4mm compression fitting to flex barb and avoid the second joint and connection to the flex.

 

See - http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_groups.php?v=1...&recall=true&products_categories=7&level2=90&products_groups=1460

 

And - http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_groups.php?v=1...&recall=true&products_categories=7&level2=90&products_groups=3503

 

Alex

 

Thanks Alex - sorry for the layman's questions, but what is a "flex barb"? By flex do you mean a flexible pipe? My set up, I think, is all copper pipe which has a rubber hose protecting it. Or at least it's not very bendy so that's what I think it is. So I'm not sure what you mean by "second joint and connection to the flex."

 

Sorry for the div questions.

[steelaway]

Hi

A flex barb is the one on the second link, to connect flexible hose directly to solid tube.

From the picture it looked like the flex was pushed onto the the bit of copper.

So really what you need is a simple 4mm to 4mm connector - http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_subgroups.php?v=1...&recall=true&products_categories=7&level2=90&products_groups=1460&products_subgroups=1460AA

 

any compressed air supplier will have them, you could take yours as a sample.

 

It would be best to cut of the old olives and start with a new bit of pipe, the olives and/or the tube has been damaged through over tightening.

 

Alex

[GoodGurl]

if it's leaking at the joints maybe it just needs new olives

[NMEA]

Just replace it with an inch of Bs7840 tube and mini clips, thats what comes with install kits when new and satisfies the BSS, some people used compression fittings when there was still some confusion over using 7840 hose. Technically you should also put a slight flare on the copper tube the hose fits on to comply with BSS. The copper tube should be 4mm OD if correctly installed as it is 2mm bore but many were i(and are) nstalled using 3/16" copper brake pipe because its cheap.

Edited January 19, 2014 by NMEA

[Timleech]

Just replace it with an inch of Bs7840 tube and mini clips, thats what comes with install kits when new and satisfies the BSS, some people used compression fittings when there was still some confusion over using 7840 hose. Technically you should also put a slight flare on the copper tube the hose fits on to comply with BSS. The copper tube should be 4mm OD if correctly installed as it is 2mm bore but many were i(and are) nstalled using 3/16" copper brake pipe because its cheap.

 

Somewhere I've read in Webasto blurb that the bore of the fuel tubing is critical, for the pumping system to work correctly, with the implication that too large a bore causes problems. Is this correct, or have I misread it?

Is all Webasto/Eber supplied 'rubber' hose likely to be 7840 compliant, even if markings not visible?

 

Tim

[BlueStringPudding]

I don't need to replace the pipe though. The pipe doesn't leak - it's the coupling at the end that leaks. I was gonna cut off the end of the pipe with the olive on, using the pipe cutter I've been using on my Taylor's heater, and just fit a new coupling on the end. Now I know it's 4mm, that helps! Thanks. There's plenty of length in the pipe so losing a few millimetres wouldn't be a problem.

 

What I can't do is take the olive or nut off the Eberspacher side of the coupling because the pipe protruding from the Eber casing is tiny so access to it is nigh on impossible. But as it appears that the leak is coming from the other end of the coupling, I'm hoping that'll be okay. Soon find out.

[NMEA]

 

Somewhere I've read in Webasto blurb that the bore of the fuel tubing is critical, for the pumping system to work correctly, with the implication that too large a bore causes problems. Is this correct, or have I misread it?

Is all Webasto/Eber supplied 'rubber' hose likely to be 7840 compliant, even if markings not visible?

 

Tim

Indeed, 2mm is the stipulation, it's really to help prevent back flow and formation of bubbles. The Webasto tube supplied with kits is 7840 and comes in short lengths suitable for coupling. It is impossible to ensure a mark on every short length, but all of the examiners I know accept that a dealer installed unit has 7840 hose, I have been known to even list it on invoices for presentation to examiners if needs be.

[smileypete]

Bit hard to make it out from the pic, but looks like the coupling MIGHT be compression to BSP female, then BSP male to compression.

 

IF so then best buy a 4mm compression to whatever BSP thread male, and avoid disturbing the compression joint on the other side. Plus buy some gas grade PTFE tape for the taper connection between the BSP threads.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 19, 2014 by smileypete

[Bee]

Pirtek are in most towns, take the whole thing to them, plonk it on the counter, point to the ends you want to join and they will sell you the bits, same goes for any other comp.air people or hydraulics people, they like a challenge.

[BlueStringPudding]

Pirtek!? Most towns? Never heard of em, sorry. Not come across that name in my line of work. But I'll google them and bear them in mind if I can't fix it myself.

 

Got my PTFE tape, thanks Smiley, coz I've been in Taylors heater installation mode recently. I'll buy a 4mm coupling off eBay and try that out next weekend - sounds like the easiest solution.

 

Thanks everyone - I shall report back.

[trackman]

Pirtek are as stated by Bee.

A few years ago the branch near us in Nottingham made up a new injector line for me for a BMC 1.8. They copied the split old one I took them for reference. They enjoyed the unusual job and wouldn't take payment for it!

[smileypete]

Pirtek!? Most towns? Never heard of em, sorry. Not come across that name in my line of work. But I'll google them and bear them in mind if I can't fix it myself.

 

Got my PTFE tape, thanks Smiley, coz I've been in Taylors heater installation mode recently. I'll buy a 4mm coupling off eBay and try that out next weekend - sounds like the easiest solution.

 

Thanks everyone - I shall report back.

 

If it's only leaking from the outside connection maybe best just redo that side using the olives from the coupling.

 

A 4mm wade coupling is likely to have soft copper olives best suited to what you're doing, normal brass olives might not seal as well on soft copper pipe:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4MM-OD-WADE-BRASS-COMPRESSION-STRAIGHT-COUPLING-/220478880133

 

If that doesn't work out one option could be to use a short length of approved rubber tube as NMEA suggests, but leave the olives crimped on the pipe, as they should help retain the tube from being pulled off.

 

I bigger photo of the coupling itself would help identify it better.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 20, 2014 by smileypete

[NMEA]

 

If it's only leaking from the outside connection maybe best just redo that side using the olives from the coupling.

 

A 4mm wade coupling is likely to have soft copper olives best suited to what you're doing, normal brass olives might not seal as well on soft copper pipe:

 

Indeed, I keep a good stock in my spares box, really soft copper to replace the brass olives that come with many couplings, the other thing I have is special Japanese rubber olives which one can use with Wade fittings, they slide over the hump on fuel pumps and heater inlets and can be removed, Mikuni use them a lot. However, for the OP, make sure you get a 3/16" fitting at the same time as the 4mm unless you have confirmed with a vernier, thought the real stuff is 4mm people often use 3/16" so if unsure best get both as they are only two or three quid each.

[BlueStringPudding]

Thanks all

[BlueStringPudding]

Well, it's taken till today for me to finally replace the diesel pipe coupling. A combination of a shoulder injury, not spending so many weekends on the boat, and hideous weather has delayed me. But today I replaced the coupling (sorta) and got the Eber started up again (also sorta).

 

Incidentally, the size of coupling recommended about was incorrect - at least for my set up. Although it fitted the pipe it did not fit the half of the old coupling that was still attached to the Eber and couldn't be removed. It was too big. So I ended up only using the olives from the new coupling I bought. But having cleaned up the old ones, PTFE taped them, cut off the old end of the pipe and replaced the old coupling on the freshly cut end, it's all back in place now and there appears to be no more diesel leaks. So that's good.

 

Not wanting to add to Chubby's thread and confuse things, I thought I'd post about trying to fire up my Eber here.

 

So now to the nitty gritty: It's still not behaving. I've made four attempts to fire it up since repairing the leaking diesel pipe and it's not getting past the whirring and cold air from the exhaust stage. I've been jotting down what's happening and in what timeframe:

 

Replaced leaking diesel pipe coupling and turned diesel on/off knob to on position. Topped up header tank with diluted antifreeze and re-bled Eber unit. Then...

 

1^st Attempt:

Engine running, battery monitor showing 13.86 at batteries.

Couldn’t hear Eber over noise of engine however as there was no air from exhaust I assume that the Eber didn’t start up at all.

Left the mini timer in the on position for 30 minutes. Eber did not automatically try to start up again.

 

2^nd Attempt.

Engine turned off

Mini timer turned off from last attempt and left for 5 minutes.

Battery monitor showing 13.2 at batteries

Eber started up at 4.53pm

Whirring sound and cold air coming from exhaust

Shut itself down at 4.58pm

Didn’t sound like it fired up.

By 5.24pm Eber hadn’t tried to start itself up again.

 

3^rd Attempt

Eber started at 5.25pm

Battery monitor showing 12.79 at batteries

Whirring sound and cold air coming from exhaust.

Shuts itself down at 5.30pm

I turned off mini timer at 5.34pm

 

4^th Attempt

Engine running.

Battery monitor showing 14.07 at batteries

Mini timer turned to on at 5.42pm (can't hear the Eber due to engine noise so don’t know if it’s started up)

At 5.45pm there is cold air coming from the exhaust pipe - so it must have started up.

Checked exhaust again at 5.50pm. Nothing – it appeared that the Eber had once again turned itself off.

 

Any thoughts what this means? Seems to be running for no more that 5 mins and not actually firing up the burner. At least before it did fire up the burner even though it still turned itself off again with a few minutes.

Edited February 16, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[NMEA]

Cold air from the exhaust pipe does not mean it had started up, only that the air motor was running, try the fault flow chart I posted on the other thread and also check that a stray bit of PTFE tape is not blocking the fuel inlet.

Edited February 16, 2014 by NMEA

[BlueStringPudding]

When I say start up I don't mean fire up. I mean the motor running. In the past even the motor hasn't run so it's kinda progress I differentiate by using the term "fired up" but unfortunately with the word "not" in front of it.

 

I'll have to wait till daylight to check the fuel pipes again. I was careful to not allow PTFE tape near the pipe openings and I blew through the pipe before reinstalling, but you never know, some of the PTFE might have shifted once the ends were screwed on. .

 

Thanks

 

Lisa

[ChimneyChain]

Why don't you take the glow plug out and start up the system then see if the glow plug gets hot. Don't forget to earth the plug while doing the test.

 

Darren

[BlueStringPudding]

I'd need the whole thing on my kitchen table, with some diesel and spare pipes and water and removing a battery from my bank and the mini timer from my wall in order to set up a test bench. And I have neither the skills or experience to know what to do. That's beyond me, I'm afraid. Darren. Thanks for the suggestion though - I'm sure someone more savvy and more of a workshop type would be able to do that.

Cold air from the exhaust pipe does not mean it had started up, only that the air motor was running, try the fault flow chart I posted on the other thread and also check that a stray bit of PTFE tape is not blocking the fuel inlet.

 

It'd be just my luck if the only reason none of it is leaking is because the fuel pipe is blocked.

Edited February 16, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[BlueStringPudding]

How come the flow chart talks about the Eber restarting? Mine never has.

[GoodGurl]

How come the flow chart talks about the Eber restarting? Mine never has.

it will restart but only after it has completed the cycle,any break in the cycle and it won't run, feel the fuse to see if it's hot if it is it could be arching.

[BlueStringPudding]

I left it for half an hour still turned on and it didn't restart. I'll have to feel the fuses tomorrow when I can see what I'm doing. I'll recheck the fuel pipe then too.

[GoodGurl]

although you have 14v at the batteries if it's not getting through to the eber it won't run or complete the cycle.