Council Tax or not??

[Tootles]

We have friends who, because of the ill health of the husband, took early retirement some years ago. They sold their house to their son, but retained a 'granny flat' arrangement with him, and pay half the council tax on the property, the son paying the remainder. They already had a narrowboat, and to supplement this they bought a holiday home on a site, but did, and still do, spend the majority of the year on their boat, traveling the system. They play the game correctly, and have a mooring on a marina which, although they pay for this for twelve months, they only use to leave the boat in during the winter, when they go abroad. It is in any case non-residential. When out and about, they also dock in marinas on route, in order to visit friends, children, or their mobile home.

They have now received a council tax bill for their mobile home, and have challenged this on the above, claiming (rightly), that they spend the majority of their time cruising the system. The council in question have since replied that "Council tax is charged on a daily basis and, as such, if your narrowboat was your sole, or main residence, you would be liable for council tax at the place where it was moored each day." The council in question of course are claiming that the holiday home is the main residence.

In your opinion(s), is this correct, from the boat point of view?

Dave.

[mayalld]

We have friends who, because of the ill health of the husband, took early retirement some years ago. They sold their house to their son, but retained a 'granny flat' arrangement with him, and pay half the council tax on the property, the son paying the remainder. They already had a narrowboat, and to supplement this they bought a holiday home on a site, but did, and still do, spend the majority of the year on their boat, traveling the system. They play the game correctly, and have a mooring on a marina which, although they pay for this for twelve months, they only use to leave the boat in during the winter, when they go abroad. It is in any case non-residential. When out and about, they also dock in marinas on route, in order to visit friends, children, or their mobile home.

They have now received a council tax bill for their mobile home, and have challenged this on the above, claiming (rightly), that they spend the majority of their time cruising the system. The council in question have since replied that "Council tax is charged on a daily basis and, as such, if your narrowboat was your sole, or main residence, you would be liable for council tax at the place where it was moored each day." The council in question of course are claiming that the holiday home is the main residence.

In your opinion(s), is this correct, from the boat point of view?

Dave.

 

 

It is utterly incorrect.

[Sir Nibble]

Their old house where they split the council tax with their son should be their main residence. Acid test, does the son get single occupant discount? if not then they MUST be resident there.

[Tootles]

Their old house where they split the council tax with their son should be their main residence. Acid test, does the son get single occupant discount? if not then they MUST be resident there.

Just phoned him. No, his son claims nothing...(hes married). He does say, however, that this council have utterly refused to accept his sons address, as " he (my friend), is not listed as the bill-payer at that address to the local authority concerned." He plans to appeal anyway, but just wasnt sure of his position as far as BW and his boat were concerned.

Dave.

[mayalld]

Just phoned him. No, his son claims nothing...(hes married). He does say, however, that this council have utterly refused to accept his sons address, as " he (my friend), is not listed as the bill-payer at that address to the local authority concerned." He plans to appeal anyway, but just wasnt sure of his position as far as BW and his boat were concerned.

Dave.

 

OK, he should refer them to "Practice note 7", and in particular to the summary below.

 

Summary of Policy

• 6.1 The policy that the legislation is intended to achieve can be summarised as follows. Although this specifically refers to boats and moorings the same principles apply to caravans and their pitches.
   
  a) If a boat which is someone’s sole or main residence is moored “permanently” at a mooring, then the mooring is domestic property, and both the mooring and the boat are subject to Council Tax.
   
  If a boat which is someone’s sole or main residence stops at a mooring and moves away for a sufficiently long period (see 6.2), and it seems that when next in use that mooring will be used by that same boat or another boat which is someone’s sole or main residence, then the mooring is domestic but the mooring only is subject to Council Tax.
   
  c) If a boat which is someone’s sole or main residence is moored at a mooring and moves away, and it seems that when next in use the mooring will be used by a non-sole or main residence boat, then the mooring is non-domestic and subject to non-domestic rates.
   
  d) If there is a mooring with no way of telling what sort of craft will be moored at it, then it is non-domestic and subject to non-domestic rates.
   
  6.2 Whether occupation by a boat or caravan, used as a sole or main residence, of a mooring or pitch can be treated as sufficiently permanent is a question of fact and degree. As a general rule, where a dwelling boat or caravan occupies a mooring or pitch for a substantial period of time - such duration would usually be for 12 months or more - it should be entered in valuation list, even if it moves away for brief periods of say 2 to 4 weeks, provided it then returns to its original mooring or pitch. The question to be asked is whether the occupation can be characterised as that of a 'settler' or a 'wayfarer'. If the latter, then only the mooring or pitch should be valued.
   
  6.3 Even if the sole or main resident of a caravan or boat does not have exclusive rights to a particular pitch or mooring if, in practice, the caravan or boat occupies the land with sufficient permanence it will be classed as domestic property, and the value included in the Council Tax banding.
  

Continuous cruisers mooring to BW property come under 6.1(d), and covered under whatever arrangement BW have for non-domestic rates.

[Tootles]

Thanks for that....What is the document all this came from??? Then he can quote it in his appeal.

Dave.

[Alastair]

Where are they registered for voting? If they register at their son's address, then they can point to that as their main residential address.

 

the council are talking cobblers anyway, it is the VOA that maintain the list of properties to be taxed. The mobile home may be liable, if it is the property where they get mail etc delivered.

[Tootles]

Where are they registered for voting? If they register at their son's address, then they can point to that as their main residential address.

 

the council are talking cobblers anyway, it is the VOA that maintain the list of properties to be taxed. The mobile home may be liable, if it is the property where they get mail etc delivered.

 

I checked that with him first off. All their mail goes to their sons house, plus bank account stuff, and all the trappings of our modern society. They have already provided this council with copies of the above, and also copies of their driving licenses, again with sons address, plus bills to show that they go abroad each year. I don't know if they are registered as voters or not, but is that a strict requirement??

[mayalld]

Thanks for that....What is the document all this came from??? Then he can quote it in his appeal.

Dave.

 

Its from the VOA (Valuation Office Agency) site.

 

Just search for "council tax practice notes"

[Tootles]

Its from the VOA (Valuation Office Agency) site.

 

Just search for "council tax practice notes"

Thanks.

[Sir Nibble]

I LOVE it when well informed citizens can stick it to the man!

[Alastair]

I don't know if they are registered as voters or not, but is that a strict requirement??

I think that you can safely say that wherever you are registered on the electoral roll is decent proof of residence. they can also prove that they pay, and have paid, towards council tax on son's house (is this in a different area from the mobile home?).

[Tootles]

I think that you can safely say that wherever you are registered on the electoral roll is decent proof of residence. they can also prove that they pay, and have paid, towards council tax on son's house (is this in a different area from the mobile home?).

 

Yes, I believe that they are fifty miles apart. Found another snippet of info this afternoon. Apparently this mobile home site is for holiday use only. It only has a licence for a certain number of months in any year. All owners are required to have a home address, other then there, to comply with the licence conditions for the site. So, the very same local authority are charging people council tax, as residents, on a site which is not allowed to be residential, in contrivance to their own regulations!! It seems that what started this all off was a few people, (taxi drivers, it seems,) selling their houses at a profit, and buying these mobile homes. I'm not sure how this will work out for Bob and his wife, but it all seems a little odd to me.

[bottle]

The 'park home' may come under the auspices of second/holiday home and if this is the case then council tax is payable.

 

There use to be a discount for such homes but that has been reduced and may have been removed altogether now.

 

Whether the restriction of use may have a bearing I do not know.

 

Just to throw another possible problem for the future in, is that of Capital Gains Tax.

 

If there sons house is their primary residence then the Park Home is a secondary residence and may be liable to Capital Gains Tax if sold. (depending on profit)

 

This is my understanding but please check with the professionals.