Custom or Off the Shelf?

[steveh]

I would love to know your opinions on custom build fully fitted and off the shelf fully fitted.

[Gary Peacock]

Well if I was going to empty my piggy bank and buy a boat, It would have to be the boat I wanted built the way I wanted it!

But putting on the boat builders hat it would be far easier to sell you the boat I wanted to sell you built the way I wanted to build it.

Simplicity and standardisation = greater profit.

 

We have never built two boats alike in around 140 we quite like it like that way.Whether it makes good business sense is probably a different issue.

 

Gary

[NB Willawaw]

I've had enough standing out in the weather this morning. Thought I'd moor up and catch up with a bit of work, but have ended up on here again.

 

My personal opinion (and believe me there will be many as this is one of those kind of open questions that has many answers) is that it largely depends on how deep your pockets are.

 

Everybody (I think) dreams of having a custom built boat to their specification.

However, when it comes to the practicality, standard production boats are cheaper and usually quicker delivery.

 

The problem I had with off-the-shelf was that the yards I spoke to kept trying to off-load me with products that they wanted to use (because they were cheaper or they had cosy relationships with the manufacturers). Any attempt by me to change anything resulted in huge additional cost, which was way over the real cost. I guess this was a deterrent to make me give in.

 

Many production yards will tell you that 95% of the people really want the same type of things anyway and I think many people end up compromising in the interests of economy.

 

However, theres nothing as exciting as choosing the fit-out, layout and colours/materials, etc of your boat. If you are going to use the boat for a long time, spend a lot of time on her and you can afford it, custom is best (in my humble opinion anyway !).

 

However, just switching sides for a moment, one advantage of production boats that many people don't consider, is that production designs tend to be proven beacuse they have been used on many boats. This means that most of the niggles and prototype problems have been eradicated. Having a one-off boat often means one-off problems.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

 

NB Willawaw

Oxford Canal

[steveh]

MArk,

 

thank you for that a very good point, as i work in the construction industry we find the same problems. Hospitals pain in the bottom why don't we build them the same.

 

As for off the shelf, what about thew aqualine boats from new boat company?

[Gary Peacock]

Make your choices pay ya money.

 

A lot of boat builders knock the New Boat Company but coming from a different background I have a great deal of respect. They appear to be making a nice amount of money without getting their hands too dirty while still satifying the customers needs. I like the opperation so much shortly they will be having a bit more competition and I might not have to get my hands dirty along with it.

 

Gary

[bottle]

Steveh

 

As said it depends on the depth of your pockets and the length of your arms.

 

We have been designing the interior of our boat for the last five years or more, then something new or different design appears. decisions, decisions do we need it, is it better than the old one, will it last longer are we changing it to keep up with the "joneses" no offence intended.

 

STOP

 

We have got a design and sticking to it.

 

 

If you buy used or off the peg, like houses, it will not be quite right. You can have a lot of "fun" though getting it the way you want. (Pockets and arms again)

 

The only "right" decision is the one you finally make

 

Good luck

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

makes good sense Gary.........why make things harder.....

[steveh]

the biggest worry that i've got is after paying all the money out will it be right even though its custom? At least with off the shelf boats you know the quality and what to expect at the end. I do know that the components used in the aqualine range are excellent. ie Victron inverter, vectus pump out loo etc

[Gary Peacock]

the biggest worry that i've got is after paying all the money out will it be right even though its custom? At least with off the shelf boats you know the quality and what to expect at the end. I do know that the components used in the aqualine range are excellent. ie Victron inverter, vectus pump out loo etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good quality products with high profit returns. Victron inverter very good quality very quick to fit, Vetus toilet much the same. Volume discount given on said items much greater than competition. Fitting them is very good business sense.

 

If however the spec is lower than this beware there could be much to hide.

 

Gary

[steveh]

If however the spec is lower than this beware there could be much to hide.

 

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I do have the full details, not the model number of the bits and bob i could get them. it would be nice if any of you guys could tell if there we good bad or average.

 

have a read at vikings forum post under birmingham carvan boat show thing.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=838&hl=

Edited February 24, 2005 by steveh

[NB Willawaw]

I went to the NEC and looked round the four of five boats on show.

If I was in the market to buy another boat, I wouldn't have chosen any of them as they were. Its not that there was anything wrong with them as such, but they didn't meet my requirements e.g. bathroom too small, galley not the right shape, not enough storage space, etc.

If you can live with one or two of these things, I guess thats fine. However, I find that if I'm not happy with these things from the beginning, time spent on the boat will only escalate these niggles. Boats aren't cheap. If you are going to part with £60k+ on a boat, do you really want to compromise that much ?

 

If I had another boat, I think I would buy a decent sailaway hull and then fit it out myself to my own requirements. A lot of yards (not all, but many) can't afford to spend too much time on perfect workmanship and they won't take the time and care that you will. Furthermore, their drawings normally suck, so at least you will know your way around the boat if you have fitted her out.

 

If you don't think you have the time to fit out, see how much time it takes to supervise a fitting-out yard to make sure you get what you want.

[Gary Peacock]

Perfect workmanship and quality costs money.

If your not willing to pay it or the builder is not charging you it then you are very unlikely to get it.

 

Gary

[steveh]

What i'm intending to do as i know what i can get for my money is take the spec of the aqualine range to a boat builder and see what prices they come back with. don't get me wrong i'm not asking for exactly the same boat whats the point what i want is the same finishes.

 

For NB Willawaw

 

the boats layout at the show where not my cup of tea only proves the workmanship of the final product. Bathrooms were to small etc but each boat did have certain stealable things about them

[NB Willawaw]

Fully agree Steve. I did the same thing - "if only I could have that bathroom with this galley, etc".

[maffi mushkila]

As for off the shelf, what about thew aqualine boats from new boat company?

 

I would think if you were going to shell out nearly £70,000 for a boat you would want to see it being built.

 

This would be a bit difficult with the Aqualine because it is built in Poland or Romania.

 

The New Boat Co ad says 'sole distributor' not builder.

 

However if you took delivery at the builders yard you would have a lot of fun getting it back home.

[Gary Peacock]

There are very few quality builders out there who can compete with or want to compete with the new boat company like for like.

Their volume of sales, methods of construction and reduced labour costs make it nigh on impossible to build a boat to even just match their specification while still making a profit.

Have you ever noticed how the price of some pretty standard items vary in price greatly? Victron inverters are a classic example the reason being the prices charged to builders is largely related to the numbers ordered, If a builder takes one inverter he pays nigh on the same price as Joe Public if he takes ten the prices become very attractive.

 

The Industry is developing and like it or not the New Boat Co and the like are taking it down a different path, I would guess in five years time there will be rather less builders advertising in magazines and less boats being built in the UK. But the New Boat Co will have more competition because the remaining builders will be forced to adopt the same methods by building hulls or complete boats where labour can be found cheaper.

The boats produced by these companies will by then probably equal the quality of the higher end builders of today. Remember what Skoda's used to be and now what they have now become?

 

A lot of the less specialised builders are seriously worried by this prospect they for many years owned the cheap boat market and along with the new serious competition have seen there profits eroded over the last two years and they have few options available: increase their prices, build and sell more boats per year, reduce quality and overheads or increase their specialisation and quality none of which are great solutions. Storm clouds are on the horizon for quite a few builders and happy days are running short.

 

The new cash cow on the horizon is the broad beam market and we all know by some of the splendid examples around that any body who can build a narrowboat can build a broad beam, can't they?

 

 

Gary

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

steveh: What ever layout and spec you decide on, until you have lived with it you wont really know ...... even though this is my second boat Ive lived on, there have been alterations, albeit small ones, already! tweaks and stuff......

 

But on the whole the spec was right and you could say this lay out is the tried and tested layout basically.....I have a u shaped kitchen on this one because on the last boat it had a centre aisle, and I got fed up of people squeezing past you when you are trying to cook and stuff. I perhaps have slightly less storage this way but at least Im not being crushed by the heard now!

[Oliver]

Really is each to his own - what suits one person will not suit another. If you can find an off the peg boat which has all that you want and which doesn't have things which will irritate you, then go with it. But if you can't and you've got the money then go with custom built.

 

However, if you are new to narrowboating I would say take two or three short holidays on different styles of boat to get an idea of what you actually like and don't like.

 

We're the opposite of Wyndy - having had a u-shaped galley on our first boat, we've gone for a straight one this time because I got fed up with scrabbling around on the floor trying to reach things in the back of cupboards and the lack of work surface. It is each to his own.

[steveh]

I agree with the lass, it would be nice to see your £70k boat being built etc.

 

Can you answer why people still buy brand new houses from £150k plus which are to a very bad standard over and over again and never see it being built?

 

We all know a lot of people are buying and moving on to the waterways due to the cost of purchasing you first home or moving up. Do you think the british boat builders should also consider 'Off the Shelf' boats built in this country only (no imported hulls / shells built) Similar t the Sandpipe range from new boat. What i mean a typical boat is split in 4 sections, living , kitchen, bathroom, bedroom. Each of the sections must be a minimum length to accommodate an average person. The module boat could be made in any order to suit the customer but still maintaining the 4 modules.

 

With this methond a lot of the materials could be prefabricated then keping costs down. I know a few of you out will say this won't work but it does in the construction industry. but bosts are different. Unfortunatly there are not people are different

Edited February 26, 2005 by steveh