How cold is too cold?

[Duchess Omnium]

Hi, everyone,

 

Earlier in the month I bought nb Pangolin. I have winter moorings on the Oxford Canal at Enslow. I'm not living on her just now, but don't real want to drain all the systems and close her down for the winter. I want to use her whenever I can, and I plan to spend a night or two a week on her.

 

I know this means staying on her whenever the forecast is for really cold -- keeping me warm will certainly be enough to keep her warm...

 

But how cold is too cold? After a balmy weekend, frosts are suddenly forecast. Tomorrow the prediction is -2, the next day -4. I guess the canal has a fair bit of thermal inertia and it will take more than the first frost to cause trouble, but I want to be careful.

 

Would you sleep on it on the first -2 night? would you on the next night (-4)?

 

Thanks for all your help!

[Bones]

Hi, everyone,

 

Earlier in the month I bought nb Pangolin. I have winter moorings on the Oxford Canal at Enslow. I'm not living on her just now, but don't real want to drain all the systems and close her down for the winter. I want to use her whenever I can, and I plan to spend a night or two a week on her.

 

I know this means staying on her whenever the forecast is for really cold -- keeping me warm will certainly be enough to keep her warm...

 

But how cold is too cold? After a balmy weekend, frosts are suddenly forecast. Tomorrow the prediction is -2, the next day -4. I guess the canal has a fair bit of thermal inertia and it will take more than the first frost to cause trouble, but I want to be careful.

 

Would you sleep on it on the first -2 night? would you on the next night (-4)?

 

edit: incidently - I am not sure the canal will have any thermal inertia that will benefit mankind... its pretty cold at this time of year. As long as you are aware you will be cold then just wrap up warm... unless you have heating of course!

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

yes.... of course. Why not?

edit: (I wrote this before but it didn't show up!)... incedently I doubt the canal with have a thermal inertia suitable to man as its pretty cold at this time of year. As long as you know it will be cold, just wrap up warm - unless you have heating of course!

Edited October 31, 2006 by Bones

[allybsc]

 

Would you sleep on it on the first -2 night? would you on the next night (-4)?

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

Can't be any colder than the flat I live in now, that's perishing, two duvet job and bedsocks too. I bet our boat is warmer, go for it, let us know.

We have an oil filled radiator on frost setting in our boat at the mo' I hope that takes a bit of the chill off for the weekend, but really once the cooker is on and the stoves are lit it's pretty toasty in no time

[Bones]

Can't be any colder than the flat I live in now, that's perishing, two duvet job and bedsocks too. I bet our boat is warmer, go for it, let us know.

We have an oil filled radiator on frost setting in our boat at the mo' I hope that takes a bit of the chill off for the weekend, but really once the cooker is on and the stoves are lit it's pretty toasty in no time

 

 

get yourself a stone hotwater bottle!!!! they ROCK!

[Duchess Omnium]

Oh, dear, I don't think I was clear!

 

I wasn't worried about how cold I might be if I stayed -- I was worried about whether or not the systems (water tank, toilet, etc) on the boat would freeze if I didn't. I don't mind staying on the boat and keeping it warm, but this week is a little awkward and I was worried about running risks.

 

I read a horror story about someone who had rented a narrowboat and not realised the issues and gone away a freezing weekend only to find he came back to a sunken boat....

 

I assume that the canal, having a fair degree of thermal inertia, takes a little while to get really cold and therefore damage things. Just wanted some guidance.

[Bones]

Oh, dear, I don't think I was clear!

 

I wasn't worried about how cold I might be if I stayed -- I was worried about whether or not the systems (water tank, toilet, etc) on the boat would freeze if I didn't. I don't mind staying on the boat and keeping it warm, but this week is a little awkward and I was worried about running risks.

 

I read a horror story about someone who had rented a narrowboat and not realised the issues and gone away a freezing weekend only to find he came back to a sunken boat....

 

I assume that the canal, having a fair degree of thermal inertia, takes a little while to get really cold and therefore damage things. Just wanted some guidance.

 

 

OH I SEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I'd probably, if I were you, shut the water off when I wasn't onboard.

 

That is about as much advise I can give I am afraid.

[allybsc]

Oh, dear, I don't think I was clear!

 

I wasn't worried about how cold I might be if I stayed -- I was worried about whether or not the systems (water tank, toilet, etc) on the boat would freeze if I didn't. I don't mind staying on the boat and keeping it warm, but this week is a little awkward and I was worried about running risks.

 

I read a horror story about someone who had rented a narrowboat and not realised the issues and gone away a freezing weekend only to find he came back to a sunken boat....

 

I assume that the canal, having a fair degree of thermal inertia, takes a little while to get really cold and therefore damage things. Just wanted some guidance.

 

If you have a land line do what we do, put in an oil filled radiator and leave it on frost free setting.

[Duchess Omnium]

If you have a land line do what we do, put in an oil filled radiator and leave it on frost free setting.

 

I've got radiators, but no land line.

[NB Alnwick]

But how cold is too cold? After a balmy weekend, frosts are suddenly forecast. Tomorrow the prediction is -2, the next day -4.

 

Last year we had a couple of days when the temperature in Northamptonshire dropped to -5. We had been away and our fires had gone out so we expected it to be seriously cold when we got back to the boat but when we opened up the temperature inside was still just above 55 degrees F - I know that because one of my old Imperial pub cellar thermometers hangs in the engine room.

 

Certainly if it gets that cold again this year we will stay put aboard and keep the fires going as well as running the engine from time to time. For one thing it is easier to keep warm on the boat than in a house and the canal is quite serene in the frost.

 

There is a picture on our website that shows what it was like when we were iced in at Fenny Compton in November last year - http://www.eaton.demon.co.uk/

[allybsc]

I've got radiators, but no land line.

 

Then you will have to probably drain the taps, I know we have antifreeze in our central heating but any other pipes are the province of 'im indoors and he is in warmer climes at the mo' uncontactable by phone...so come on boys fill the breach I'm sure this has been discussed before...do a search.

Cheers

[gaggle]

last year the ice was over an inch thick around me boat and i was worried a lot about the minus six degree forecasts but everything was ok with nothing freezing.

i did visit every 2 -3 days and check and also stayed some nights with the aldi lit to make sure it was not frozen in the pipework.

the worry will still be there this winter so the best thing is spend more time on and enjoying the boat.

[NB Alnwick]

the worry will still be there this winter so the best thing is spend more time on and enjoying the boat.

 

That has got to be the best solution - can there be a better place to be?

[Duchess Omnium]

Everything's turned off but the bilge pump. But, of course, the tanks and pipes are full of water, even turned off.

 

If I didn't want to use the boat at all I would drain it off. But I do, so I haven't. I'm just asking how quickly am I at risk?

 

I don't suppose the first frosty night causes a problem because everything surrounding is still so warm But would a -2 night followed by a -4 night (assuming correct forecasts) mean it was risky to leave a non winterised boat alone?

 

I guess that's what I am really asking.

[NB Alnwick]

Everything's turned off but the bilge pump. But, of course, the tanks and pipes are full of water, even turned off.

 

If I didn't want to use the boat at all I would drain it off. But I do, so I haven't. I'm just asking how quickly am I at risk?

 

I don't suppose the first frosty night causes a problem because everything surrounding is still so warm But would a -2 night followed by a -4 night (assuming correct forecasts) mean it was risky to leave a non winterised boat alone?

 

I guess that's what I am really asking.

 

It really depends on how good your insulation is and if your boat is sufficiently air-tight to keep out the cold winds. I saw some horrendously frozen pipework once on a railway dining car that had only been exposed overnight - burst pipes everywhere but it had very poor insulation . . .

[Bones]

Everything's turned off but the bilge pump. But, of course, the tanks and pipes are full of water, even turned off.

 

If I didn't want to use the boat at all I would drain it off. But I do, so I haven't. I'm just asking how quickly am I at risk?

 

I don't suppose the first frosty night causes a problem because everything surrounding is still so warm But would a -2 night followed by a -4 night (assuming correct forecasts) mean it was risky to leave a non winterised boat alone?

 

I guess that's what I am really asking.

 

 

I am afraid I have no idea, but from my point of view I'd just do it. I've left my boat for several nights and never winterised it and never intend to. One day disaster may well strike, but in the event of that I know my bed is above the water line, and I have wellies. Why not meander down the line at enslow and ask the people down there. Tad should know - and Ratty too.

[alan_fincher]

I'm thinking similar thoughts.

 

I'm watching weather forcasts with some minus temperatures to come, and wondering when I need to drain down anything particularly vulnerable.

 

There have been a few posts around this topic in the past, if you search, although I don't think anyone has come up with anything scientific on how cold it has to get, or for how long.

 

From what I think I remember on the topic.

 

It has to get pretty cold for pipes on the boat to actually be damaged by frost.

Plastic plumbing (e.g. Hep2O), tends to be more forgiving than copper, (I think!).

With copper, compression joints (if used) may be the first to go.

 

For the main plumbing, I think if you had a "minus 2" night, then "minus 4" night you'd have to be pretty damned unlucky to hit problems.

 

The one component that can be quickly damaged by icy conditions is an instantaneous water heater, such as Morco, Paloma, etc, (if you have one). With these, the internals can get frozen up quite quickly, as they are connected to the outside air by a short length of open flue, and I'm told it doesn't take much for leaks to start. It seems that if you drain nothing else down, you should certainly aim to drain down your Paloma / Morco.

 

Note to self:

 

I must get around to adding a cut-off tap to allow rest of pressurised system to stay "wet" when the Morco isn't.

[Bones]

just done a search - try this

 

Canal World Links

 

There are some other links on there too.

 

 

I always find I read about these things and then panic! The boat survived last year without any care from me.... I hereby promise to find it funny if winter causes a flood on my boat!

[Duchess Omnium]

I am afraid I have no idea, but from my point of view I'd just do it. I've left my boat for several nights and never winterised it and never intend to. One day disaster may well strike, but in the event of that I know my bed is above the water line, and I have wellies. Why not meander down the line at enslow and ask the people down there. Tad should know - and Ratty too.

 

I know Tad, who is kindness itself. But who is Ratty?

 

And I don't like to impose too too much on my neighbours!

[Bones]

I know Tad, who is kindness itself. But who is Ratty?

 

And I don't like to impose too too much on my neighbours!

 

 

isn't ratty (John) there anymore? He's on the black boat at the end... called... ratty! Is Emma still there? And Dave & Deborah? Hmm.. the list could go on. I loved it there. Tad rocks.

[Breals]

Next time I leave the boat for more than a couple of nights I will run off all the water in the system... I went to visit family for four days last Christmas (24th - 27th Dec 05) and returned to find icicles coming out of the tap and a burst heat exchange on the water heater. And later in the year my water pump bust too... now I'm thinking this might possibly have been connected.

 

The water heater has cost 200 quid to replace (courtesy of Whilton Chandlers, who were great in sourcing an identical unit) and the water pump would have cost about a hundred. More to the point, the leaks could have encouraged rust and rot to set in under my floorboards.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Breals

[Bones]

Next time I leave the boat for more than a couple of nights I will run off all the water in the system... I went to visit family for four days at Christmas and returned to find icicles coming out of the tap and a burst heat exchange on the water heater. And later in the year my water pump bust too... now I'm thinking this might possibly have been connected.

 

The water heater has cost 200 quid to replace (courtesy of Whilton Chandlers, who were great in sourcing an identical unit) and the water pump would have cost about a hundred. More to the point, the leaks could have encouraged rust and rot to set in under my floorboards.

 

 

do you know how cold it was?

[Duchess Omnium]

just done a search - try this

 

Canal World Links

 

There are some other links on there too.

I always find I read about these things and then panic! The boat survived last year without any care from me.... I hereby promise to find it funny if winter causes a flood on my boat!

 

Oh, thanks! That's quite reassuring, on the whole.

 

And, apologies! I should have done the search myself before I asked.

[Breals]

do you know how cold it was?

 

Overnight minimum temperatures dropped to minus 5 just after Crimbo... I remember when I returned there was snow on the ground and but the next day there was a thaw... if I hadn't returned the residual pressure in the system would have sprayed water from the heater and the tap as the ice melted.

 

I had left the inverter on as well - doh! I found it feebly bleeping away to itself.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Breals

[Bones]

Overnight minimum temperatures dropped to minus 5 just after Crimbo... I remember when I returned there was snow on the ground and but the next day there was a thaw... if I hadn't returned the residual pressure in the system would have sprayed water from the heater and the tap as the ice melted.

 

I had left the inverter on as well - doh! I found it feebly bleeping away to itself.

 

 

Did you have copper pipes?! And were they insulated? I have got some insulation for my Hep2o and intend to do something about insulating my pipes. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that insulation in the freezing will stop the pipes freezing. Or at least that was until I typed that sentance and realised that a pen I have made from recycled plastic generates heat. this may explain why plastic pipes are more forgiving than copper. Why does plastic generate heat (other than the fact it is evil)?

[Yoda]

Did you have copper pipes?! And were they insulated? I have got some insulation for my Hep2o and intend to do something about insulating my pipes. I still can't quite get my head around the idea that insulation in the freezing will stop the pipes freezing. Or at least that was until I typed that sentance and realised that a pen I have made from recycled plastic generates heat. this may explain why plastic pipes are more forgiving than copper. Why does plastic generate heat (other than the fact it is evil)?

 

I don't think it does. It's a perception caused by our tactile senses. It is neither cold nor hot.