Solar & Wind power

[anne]

I have searched a few threds on this subject and have unfortunatly been unable to find any info on retro-fitting both solar panels of wind generators.

 

A couple of questions....

Has anyone sucessfully managed to fix a wind generator (thinking of Rutland 913) to their narrowboat without damaging the steelwork? Also how easy are they to take down while on the move? (or do you leave up while cruising (low bridges!!!!!!) We have a trad stern.

We have 7 No 110 batteries....would we need a regulator for solar panels (thinking flexible panels) If we don't How many/ what size panels could we run without cooking the batteries?

Sorry if these are dumb questions but I'm not a techy and so far I haven't found much information that a non techy can understand!!!!

Any advice welcome

[Alastair]

The answer to cooking batteries (from both solar and wind power) is a regulator. They are easy to install - most are less complicated than wiring a plug.

 

Regarding wind generators, you must mount them so that it is physically not possible for a person to walk into them . . . .

[DHutch]

There was thread about a week about about mounting windturbine, in which i posted links to about four other simular threads.

- Simualarly with solar pannels, there are many pasted thread if you do a search.

- I would dig them all up, but my internet conections being a right nightmare and only just about working at all.

 

Yes, you will need regulator for both.

- The rutland 913 is a good unit, everyone says so, athough i have never acctaully owned one, yet.

- You really cant have too many solar pannals, asuming the regualtors working you wont cook the batterys with them, they dont put out that much!

 

 

Daniel

[Gary Peacock]

We will be fitting one of THESE in a couple of weeks and will be fabricating a mast to stick it on top of so I will keep you informed of proceedings.

[matt]

I've got an 6ft pole on the roof, that sits between two uprights welded to the roof.

 

The pole can easily be pushed up and bolted into place - easily done, except when icy.

 

The wiring is not simple, especially when fitting solar too and the regulator (which you need) - if you aren't confident I would advise getting someone is rather than having a go.

 

Unfortunately my 913 was stolen last month, unbolted and wires cut. It's been everywhere (including 5 months at Anderton on the towpath for winter) - then I left it on the towpath adjacent to my rather rural new mooring one night recently and it got taken.

 

... also had my car broken into the following week and our warehouse at work has been ram raided 3 times in the last fortnight - it's all rather depressing.

 

 

Matt (enjoying the weather despite those trying to stop me)

[DHutch]

Unfortunately my 913 was stolen last month...

 

... also had my car broken into the following week and our warehouse at work has been ram raided 3 times in the last fortnight - it's all rather depressing.

Yeah, its not good at all is it!

[Amicus]

Re. Solar energy. Down ‘ere in sunny sarf Dorset we are fortunate in having a very nice private weather station at;

http://weymouth-weather.co.uk/

This thing only work proper like with Internet Explorer, but it has a “Solar Radiation” measurement displayed, which, (iffin you’re sad enough) can be interesting, currently reading 836 W/sq-m. (bright sunshine/blue sky)

I would suppose this is the absolute max available to any device, not that any device is going to get anywhere near this 100%.

Should point out that this is positioned in one of the sunniest parts of the country.

Oop in the smoky North the measurements are going to be somewhat less.

Edited June 10, 2006 by Amicus

[NB Willawaw]

What does the W stand for then ?

 

I don't know if you're sad for mentioning it or I'm even sadder for asking !

 

Mark

 

Re. Solar energy. Down ‘ere in sunny sarf Dorset we are fortunate in having a very nice private weather station at;

http://weymouth-weather.co.uk/

This thing only work proper like with Internet Explorer, but it has a “Solar Radiation” measurement displayed, which, (iffin you’re sad enough) can be interesting, currently reading 836 W/sq-m. (bright sunshine/blue sky)

I would suppose this is the absolute max available to any device, not that any device is going to get anywhere near this 100%.

Should point out that this is positioned in one of the sunniest parts of the country.

Oop in the smoky North the measurements are going to be somewhat less.

[Amicus]

W=watt(s)

[NB Willawaw]

Thats what I thought it might mean.

Are you implying that a square meter of solar panel would produce 836 Watts ?

I dont understand - surely solar radiation is not expressed in Watts ?

 

Mark

 

W=watt(s)

[timboharticus]

Solar panels are only 5-10% efficient .

 

So a 1metre square panel will give about 80W in peak conditions.

 

[Alastair]

 

The wiring is not simple, especially when fitting solar too and the regulator (which you need) - if you aren't confident I would advise getting someone is rather than having a go.

 

What did you have trouble with regarding the wiring?

 

I fitted a 64W solar panel and digital regulator some time ago, and truly, it was simpler than wiring a plug.

[Amicus]

Thats what I thought it might mean.

Are you implying that a square meter of solar panel would produce 836 Watts ?

I dont understand - surely solar radiation is not expressed in Watts ?

 

Mark

The 836 Watts is the energy from the sun reaching the ground, i.e. the absolute max available. No device is capable of converting all of that to useful energy, electric or hot water.

 

At this time it reads 644, overcast sky.

Edit

Praps my original post was too brief. I thought the measurement to be interesting if checked occasionally over the course of a year. It does swing about wildly, often in winter it’s 3 parts of sweet b***** all.

 

Edit again

The actual numbers do not give a true picture, we don’t know what the instrument is measuring. The energy from the sun come in many different forms, different wavelengths, way on down to the low infra-red that we feel as heat, up through the visible spectrum and on up through the ultra-violet, and I suppose, x-rays, gamma rays and all sorts of particles, this is all solar radiation. We don’t know what part of the spectrum the instrument is measuring and we don’t know what part of the spectrum our particular solar device uses. As I said above, the interest is in the variations, seasonal and weather driven.

Edited June 11, 2006 by Amicus

[nbtafelberg]

Hi

 

OK I have

 

2 x 60 watt panels

2 x 64 watt panels

Rutland 913 Wind Generator

 

I am running a Morning Star Solar Charge Controller, it is BRILLIANT. We did have a steca but our alternator controller upset it. The Rutland regulator seems happy with everything.

[anne]

Thanks for all the good info guys!

I think the solar panels seem to be the best option for us at the moment (don't fancy having to have any welding done on the boat to fix a wind turbine!) We have been offered a solar panel (off a motorhome) but it is a rigid one not flexible, so we'll have to see what its like....

The other option, I was just thinking about was maybe fitting a turbine to our pontoon to be used when we are on our home mooring over winter. As we moor on the river our pontoon is a floating one with scafolding poles to two corners. Don't know if it would be possible to secure turbine to one of the corners and run a line from it to the boat when needed......maybe....or maybe just another dumb idea!!!!!!!!blush:

[DHutch]

Yeah, if you have a mooring without shore-power its quite feasable to have a windturbine on it and then just leave the turbine there when yuo go crusing. As long as it doesnt get nicked!

 

The little solar pannels we have are the BP-solar pannels, there about 4mm thick, backed onto a sheet of Stainless Steel.

- There not flexable, but will bend a little, to follow the curve of the roof, and you can (apprently) walk on them. Although long term they would get badly scuffed.

 

 

Daniel

[Cafnod]

Why not mount a wind turbine on your home mooring? Sounds like an excellent idea.

You can mount a turbine mast without welding BTW, the way ours was mounted on the trad could have been done with nuts and bolts very easily.

When we fit one to the new boat I do not intend welding the mast brackets and the mast will be on the rear deck NOT on the roof.

[Bones]

I loved the wind generator on the previous boat, and it completely charged the batteries, but this time I think I will have a go with Solar first - just to see how it compares. When I work out what I need for the amount I use, and find a supplier I will embrace it in style - but not until I have a cooker!

[Christine]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just found this on www.planning-applications.co.uk

 

 

DOMESTIC WIND TURBINES

 

Q - Do small domestic wind turbines require planning permission?

 

A - Any turbine fixed to the roof or side of a dwelling will normally fall to be considered against the provisions of Classes A, B and C of the General Permitted Development Order [GPDO] which deal with enlargements and alterations to dwellinghouses. The Government are considering changes to the GPDO to take into account the increase in domestic wind turbines.

 

Q - Can a wind turbine be erected in the garden to a dwelling?

 

A - Class E of the GPDO permits the provision of any 'building' in the curtilage of a dwellinghouse. Article 1 of the order provides that a 'building' includes 'any structure or erection', but not plant or machinery. The courts have held that plant and machinery can be distinguished from a 'building' by reference to size, permanence and physical attachment to the ground. As a wind turbine is likely to be a permanent structure of some size they are likely to fall to be 'development' and therefore require planning permission.

 

Chrissie

[Cafnod]

Not sure if this counts as it is for battery charging in a recreational application.

[nbtafelberg]

Guys

 

The key to making solars work is the kit.

 

THe only charge controller (and I've had 4) I'd recommend is the morning Star one at £160 odd quid. It is superb, it deosn't get upset if you charge the batteries another way or if the power is dropped from one of the inputs.

 

One of the problems is that some charge controllers have to be connected in order, so if you need to disconnect the batteries you have to reconnect and disconnect in order, this is really a nuisance.

 

Anyway - personally I'd look at your mooring - if it's under a lot of trees like ours both solar and wind won't be as good as if you are sitting out in the open! They do work but not as well as when we are moored up on holiday. Then they really chug along.

[anne]

As our mooring is on the river we have a deck just off the bank( scafolding & planks!) then a ramp down to our floating pontoon, so the boat is actually quite a way off the bank. The only problem we may have with regards putting a turbine on the pontoon (as far as I can see) is the distance from this to the back of the boat. She is 58 foot long and more than half of her length sticks out away from the pontoon. I haven't physically measured the distance but not sure if this would be a problem. Would it just be a case of fitting a long cable....I'm sure I read somewhere that that if the turbine is quite far away from the batteries then they wouldn't be as efficient....don't know if this is true!

[nbtafelberg]

Yes it is true

 

Best place for a wind generator is on the boat - you can get a pole kit like ours from Rutland and then you just run three lines one at the front and two diagonally to the sides.

 

Goes up and down as required.

[Breals]

DOMESTIC WIND TURBINES

 

Q - Do small domestic wind turbines require planning permission?

 

A - Any turbine fixed to the roof or side of a dwelling will normally fall to be considered against the provisions of Classes A, B and C of the General Permitted Development Order [GPDO] which deal with enlargements and alterations to dwellinghouses. The Government are considering changes to the GPDO to take into account the increase in domestic wind turbines.

 

Q - Can a wind turbine be erected in the garden to a dwelling?

 

A - Class E of the GPDO permits the provision of any 'building' in the curtilage of a dwellinghouse. Article 1 of the order provides that a 'building' includes 'any structure or erection', but not plant or machinery. The courts have held that plant and machinery can be distinguished from a 'building' by reference to size, permanence and physical attachment to the ground. As a wind turbine is likely to be a permanent structure of some size they are likely to fall to be 'development' and therefore require planning permission.

 

Chrissie

 

Good to see that Planning Laws are really encouraging sustainable energy! Why can't they exempt micro-generation from all planning considerations? Sorry but it gets me mad.

[DHutch]

Good to see that Planning Laws are really encouraging sustainable energy! Why can't they exempt micro-generation from all planning considerations?

Becuase then people would do stupid things, with potentialy lethal equipment, and they would have nothink against them?

 

 

Daniel