Alde 3010

[Serendipity]

I'm considering the Alde as a backup to solid fuel, and I like the idea of it also providing instant hot water in the summer, but at 8 litres it is very small capacity, and I know from here some don't connect this feature and simply put the heating circuit through a calorifier.

 

This sounds a good idea for summer using isolators from the rads, and using the timer so it heats the calorifier morning and again in the evening. Wondering if anyone has any experience of using it this way, and how much gas they get through in the summer.

 

Cheers

[RLWP]

Ours is an older Alde with no timer. It has a tee in the outlet of the central heating circuit and there is a shut off valve in the line to the radiators. With the valve closed, it only heats the calorifier

 

Richard

[Serendipity]

Ours is an older Alde with no timer. It has a tee in the outlet of the central heating circuit and there is a shut off valve in the line to the radiators. With the valve closed, it only heats the calorifier

 

Richard

 

Thanks. I have the older one too, CH only with a Rinnai for hot water. I have loved the simplicity of the Alde for several years.

 

Now looking at a new build liveaboard, but want to think of the best/most efficient way of providing summer hot water. Don't want to have a Rinnai/Paloma on any of the walls, although I suspect they are the cheapest option to run. Summer solar means I don't have to run the engine to charge the batteries and get heat that way. Don't want an unreliable diesel heater, can't/won't afford a Kabola at £4k plus much as I would like it.

 

The new Aldes have a good reputation, and are much more efficient than the old, hence wondering if anyone heats their water this way in the summer and can give me a ball park on consumption.

[dor]

I've got the 3010 boiler.

 

Mine is plumbed in with a radiator circuit and calorifier circuit, both of which have 22mm full flow lever ball valves so I can select either rads, calorifier or both. The bathroom radiator is plumbed in so it is always on. This is because the boiler doesn't work as well if there is insufficient load. Like most people I didn't bother with the separate hot water jacket.

 

The setup works really well. If there is insufficient hot water (see below) in the morning we put the boiler on to top the hot water up to provide enough for a couple of showers. This can take anything from 15 minutes to an hour depending on the temperature of the water. We might run it early evening for hot water for washing up, in which case there is probably enough hot water left for the morning.

 

We also have a solid fuel stove to provide nearly all the heating in the winter. Even when it was -17 outside, we only used the Alde to warm up the bedroom or take the chill off the boat on first arriving and then for a short while in the morning to top up the hot water and take the chill off the bathroom.

 

On this basis, one 13Kg propane lasts us several weeks in the winter, and a couple of months or more in the summer (based on being on the boat 3-4 days a week). The 3010 is significantly more efficient than the older upright 2928 models.

 

To check how much hot water we have, I use a basic indoor/outdoor digital thermometer, with the outdoor sensor on the calorifier. It is on the end, about halfway up, underneath the insulation. If it reads 38 degrees or more then we know we have enough hot water for a couple of showers. This must save a lot of gas as you can turn the boiler off when you have enough hot water, especially if you are moving later in the day when the calorifier will be fully heated anyway. (Showers are "navy showers" - we don't expect to be able to stand under a torrent of water for 10 minutes!)

 

The Alde 3010 has worked faultlessly for five years now, and doesn't need servicing. Just turn it on and it works! Although it would be expensive to rely on for all the heating, I don't think it is that much dearer to run than a diesel boiler.

Edited May 29, 2012 by dor

[RLWP]

Can't ask for a better answer than that - nice one Dor

 

Richard

[Serendipity]

Many thanks for that Dor, very encouraging and just what i was hoping. What size calorifier do you have it connected to?- there will be two to three showers taken at a time.

 

Julian

[dor]

What size calorifier do you have it connected to

 

It's a 60 litre twin coil calorifier. s long as the water is hot enough there is enough for say 4 showers as long as you are careful with the water - hence the navy showers. My water tank isn't that big anyway.

 

Bear in mind that with the 3010 you are strongly recommended to use a stainless steel calorifier and not to use copper pipe.

[Serendipity]

It's a 60 litre twin coil calorifier. s long as the water is hot enough there is enough for say 4 showers as long as you are careful with the water - hence the navy showers. My water tank isn't that big anyway.

 

Bear in mind that with the 3010 you are strongly recommended to use a stainless steel calorifier and not to use copper pipe.

 

Perfect thank you. That's the way I will go, and I might give some thought to a control stat stuck to the calorifier.

 

I had read about the non copper requirements, I'm also considering the heated skirting covered in another thread, and as that's aluminium that's looking like a viable option too.

 

By the way, how did you find out it was better to include at least one rad in the 'non rad' circuit?

 

Cheers

[Fred_Smith]

The 8 litres are contained in the boiler, this is a feature in the control panel that comes with it, the boiler then heats the 8 litres, a useful feature however once heated up and you use some of the hot the unit does not continue to heat up the 8 litres beyond 30 mins, you have to select the feature again after 30 mins, (thats my understanding of how it works). As previously noted (in addition to the feature noted above) if you want to heat up the calorifier only and not the rads you will need a manual gate valve or alternatively no gate valve but thermostatic valves on your rads, so if you want the heat to be pumped through the calorifier only you turn down the valves on the rads. By the way if going for Alde, consider a heat exchanger that they supply in your engine circuit, this will allow you to use the engine heat when its running to heat your rads as well as the calorifier using the pump in the boiler without the boiler running

[Serendipity]

The 8 litres are contained in the boiler, this is a feature in the control panel that comes with it

 

If you want to heat up the calorifier only and not the rads you will need a manual gate valve or alternatively no gate valve but thermostatic valves on your rads, so if you want the heat to be pumped through the calorifier only you turn down the valves on the rads. By the way if going for Alde, consider a heat exchanger that they supply in your engine circuit, this will allow you to use the engine heat when its running to heat your rads as well as the calorifier using the pump in the boiler without the boiler running

 

8 litres is far to little to consider using that feature. TRV's are a nice simple option, which I might consider, but then the thought of water being heated in the summer for hot water use only going up and down the length of the boat will result in heat loss.

 

I've considered the heat exchanger option, but think it will be cheaper just to put the engine through a second coil? However, I'd get radiator heat in the winter if I did go the exchanger route. Needs weighing up.

[Fred_Smith]

8 litres is far to little to consider using that feature. TRV's are a nice simple option, which I might consider, but then the thought of water being heated in the summer for hot water use only going up and down the length of the boat will result in heat loss.

 

I've considered the heat exchanger option, but think it will be cheaper just to put the engine through a second coil? However, I'd get radiator heat in the winter if I did go the exchanger route. Needs weighing up.

 

Its nothing to do with the 8 litres, thats the feature within the boiler to give additional hot water to the taps (8 litres worth) and is not pumped round. With the boiler running to heat the calorifier and rads it will be pumped round continuously according to the temperature you set on the control panel. By not having a gate valve and the having the rads "turned off" you will have some heat loss as the water goes up and down the boat in the pipe work as you point out but its probably not very significant

[dor]

The bit about the load came from talking to Alde's tech people (I was one of the first to install a 3010 in a narrowboat, so I had quite a bit of discussion with them, as well as trialing some options).

 

The Alde heat exchanger is a good way to heat rads when the engine is running, but expensive to install. I just fit a switch to run the pump without starting the boiler to circulate water through the calorifier and rads so that the calorifier acts as the heat exchanger. The pump power is supplied through a relay on the 3010 so it if you power the pump externally, it won't feed power back into the boiler circuit.

 

The hot water feature in the 3010 is a jacket which holds the 8 litres and has separate pipe connectors. Too much fiddling about to really make it useful. - It's designed for use in caravans etc where the boiler is installed for heating only.

[Serendipity]

The bit about the load came from talking to Alde's tech people (I was one of the first to install a 3010 in a narrowboat, so I had quite a bit of discussion with them, as well as trialing some options).

 

The Alde heat exchanger is a good way to heat rads when the engine is running, but expensive to install. I just fit a switch to run the pump without starting the boiler to circulate water through the calorifier and rads so that the calorifier acts as the heat exchanger. The pump power is supplied through a relay on the 3010 so it if you power the pump externally, it won't feed power back into the boiler circuit.

 

The hot water feature in the 3010 is a jacket which holds the 8 litres and has separate pipe connectors. Too much fiddling about to really make it useful. - It's designed for use in caravans etc where the boiler is installed for heating only.

 

Valuable advice thank you.

 

Co-incidentally a 3010 boiler came up on eBay early afternoon today (I have a search in case a spare for my old one comes up cheaply locally), and he suggested "a clever little trick is to connect the outlet of the calorifier (where the hot water comes out) to the inlet of the 8.4L tank, then the outlet of the 8.4L tank to your hot water system. This would mean that you will always be able to get 8.4L of hot water quickly whilst you're waiting for the larger calorifier to heat up." Might have some merit?

[dor]

This would mean that you will always be able to get 8.4L of hot water quickly whilst you're waiting for the larger calorifier to heat up." Might have some merit?

That's fine if the boiler is on. However if you have a calorifier full of hot water, say heated by the engine, but the boiler hasn't run for a bit then you have 8l of cold water as well as what is in the pipes to clear before you get your hot, then leave that amount of hot water in the jacket to cool down and so get lost.

 

Perhaps the person making the suggestion only has the boiler to heat the water rather than a twin-coil setup.

[Serendipity]

That's fine if the boiler is on. However if you have a calorifier full of hot water, say heated by the engine, but the boiler hasn't run for a bit then you have 8l of cold water as well as what is in the pipes to clear before you get your hot, then leave that amount of hot water in the jacket to cool down and so get lost.

 

Perhaps the person making the suggestion only has the boiler to heat the water rather than a twin-coil setup.

 

Good thinking - I'll forget that idea.