GSer Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 A friend of mine has a 2 cyl Air cooled Lister engine in his boat, it's started to make some mechanical knocking sounds. I know nothing about these engines but it looks very similar the the old dumpertruck engines with decompression levers on the two separate rocker covers. There was a mechanical knocking sound so he stopped the engine straight away and has started to investigate the problem. I just happened to pass and he asked my opinion. On initial inspection there appears to be significant movement if you pull up on the end of the crankshaft(?) ie the central stub next to the flywheel/fan assembly. Question is, is the stub the end of the Crank? Or is it part of the flywheel assembly which might be bolted to a flange that might have come loose from the crank? I only ask the question as the movement feels to pivot on a very short axis, had it been a mainbearing failure and I was lifting the whole crankshaft i'd have expected the pivot point to have been longer/further away from the flywheel? Crankshaft snapped perhaps? I hesitate to ask him to start it up just in case it's terminal!! Sorry it's all a bit vague but he has no manual for the engine and i've no experience of those engines. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORTUNATA Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Could be piston slap. Your guess is as good as mine. Here is Tony Brook's website so click on that "Dutch" flag at the very bottom and you should find a manual for Listers: http://www.tb-training.co.uk/ There is a main bearing housing but it could be anything. Maybe even a con rod. If it were me, I'd start taking the whole thing apart and work my way down the line, if it's a very old engine and the condition doesn't seem to be that great. Pistons can be removed easily enough as there's a crankcase door that simply comes off. Otherwise maybe a Lister mechanic. A friend of mine has a 2 cyl Air cooled Lister engine in his boat, it's started to make some mechanical knocking sounds. I know nothing about these engines but it looks very similar the the old dumpertruck engines with decompression levers on the two separate rocker covers. There was a mechanical knocking sound so he stopped the engine straight away and has started to investigate the problem. I just happened to pass and he asked my opinion. On initial inspection there appears to be significant movement if you pull up on the end of the crankshaft(?) ie the central stub next to the flywheel/fan assembly. Question is, is the stub the end of the Crank? Or is it part of the flywheel assembly which might be bolted to a flange that might have come loose from the crank? I only ask the question as the movement feels to pivot on a very short axis, had it been a mainbearing failure and I was lifting the whole crankshaft i'd have expected the pivot point to have been longer/further away from the flywheel? Crankshaft snapped perhaps? I hesitate to ask him to start it up just in case it's terminal!! Sorry it's all a bit vague but he has no manual for the engine and i've no experience of those engines. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) A friend of mine has a 2 cyl Air cooled Lister engine in his boat, it's started to make some mechanical knocking sounds. I know nothing about these engines but it looks very similar the the old dumpertruck engines with decompression levers on the two separate rocker covers. There was a mechanical knocking sound so he stopped the engine straight away and has started to investigate the problem. I just happened to pass and he asked my opinion. On initial inspection there appears to be significant movement if you pull up on the end of the crankshaft(?) ie the central stub next to the flywheel/fan assembly. Question is, is the stub the end of the Crank? Or is it part of the flywheel assembly which might be bolted to a flange that might have come loose from the crank? I only ask the question as the movement feels to pivot on a very short axis, had it been a mainbearing failure and I was lifting the whole crankshaft i'd have expected the pivot point to have been longer/further away from the flywheel? Crankshaft snapped perhaps? I hesitate to ask him to start it up just in case it's terminal!! Sorry it's all a bit vague but he has no manual for the engine and i've no experience of those engines. Cheers Paul Sounds very likely to be a loose flywheel. Tim Edit to clarify - This sounds like an H series engine, with the flywheel at the front? The stub to which you refer will be bolted to the face of the flywheel, the flywheel itself is mounted on a keyed taper on the end of the crankshaft. If it works loose on the taper, you will get a serious knocking as it bangs back & forth against the key. Further edit - if you're very lucky I suppose it could be just the stub shaft which has worked loose, in which case all you have to do is tighten the bolts Tim Edited September 14, 2011 by Timleech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pink Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 A friend of mine has a 2 cyl Air cooled Lister engine in his boat, it's started to make some mechanical knocking sounds. I know nothing about these engines but it looks very similar the the old dumpertruck engines with decompression levers on the two separate rocker covers. There was a mechanical knocking sound so he stopped the engine straight away and has started to investigate the problem. I just happened to pass and he asked my opinion. On initial inspection there appears to be significant movement if you pull up on the end of the crankshaft(?) ie the central stub next to the flywheel/fan assembly. Question is, is the stub the end of the Crank? Or is it part of the flywheel assembly which might be bolted to a flange that might have come loose from the crank? I only ask the question as the movement feels to pivot on a very short axis, had it been a mainbearing failure and I was lifting the whole crankshaft i'd have expected the pivot point to have been longer/further away from the flywheel? Crankshaft snapped perhaps? I hesitate to ask him to start it up just in case it's terminal!! Sorry it's all a bit vague but he has no manual for the engine and i've no experience of those engines. Cheers Paul Is that Tipton (or do we have a huge co-incidence?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSer Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Is that Tipton (or do we have a huge co-incidence?) Yes, Tipton. I bought some fuel from them over the weekend and heard his tale of woe, i'm only moored 1/2 a mile away and I was hoping to pop along tomorrow with a couple of ideas to help out. He was going to contact a local Lister guy so he may have it all under control by now, perhaps, maybe Sounds very likely to be a loose flywheel. Tim Edit to clarify - This sounds like an H series engine, with the flywheel at the front? The stub to which you refer will be bolted to the face of the flywheel, the flywheel itself is mounted on a keyed taper on the end of the crankshaft. If it works loose on the taper, you will get a serious knocking as it bangs back & forth against the key. Further edit - if you're very lucky I suppose it could be just the stub shaft which has worked loose, in which case all you have to do is tighten the bolts Tim That's exactly what it feels like, a loose flywheel, the ring of bolts on the flywheel are tight but it appears whatever they are bolted to is loose. Yes, the flywheel/fan is at the front of the engine. Is it a really, really heavy flywheel? It dosn't look to bad but i've been deceived before, he may have got it all under control but I was going to pop along tomorrow as i'm moored nearby. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) ne. Is it a really, really heavy flywheel? It dosn't look to bad but i've been deceived before, he may have got it all under control but I was going to pop along tomorrow as i'm moored nearby. Cheers Paul You wouldn't want to drop it on your toe I'll hazard a guess at about 75 kg, though it's been a while... Held in place with a special large-headed bolt, the stub shaft has to come off to get access. Even if it can be tightened in situ to get them home, if it's been running as loose as that, it really will need to come off and be properly looked at ASAP. Tim Edited September 14, 2011 by Timleech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSer Posted September 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Cheers, I'll pop along tomorrow and have a chat and see what he's planning. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSer Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Popped into see the engine again last thursday, stripped off the hand starter/ alternator belt pully assembly from the flywheel, nothing looked out of place, undid the big bolt and the flywheel was still firmly attached to the crankshaft taper with no apparant slack, it was worth a go though. When turning the engine by hand with the decompressor levers engaged, there is a definate 'clunk' once every revolution, sounds loud and metallic Lister expert turning up this week to take a look, lets hope all is not lost. A big thanks to the Croften Pump guy who spent some time trying to find a big enough spanner to fit the flywheel bolt, 2.75" AF (70mm) If you need a big spanner thats the type of place to go looking, unfortunatly for us nothing fitted, but a trip to Joe Hirsts in St Mary Bourne led to them lending us a 2.75" snap on socket and 1" drive breaker bar to fit, no questions asked, just handed it over and asked us to return it once finished with, nice blokes and very trusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 When turning the engine by hand with the decompressor levers engaged, there is a definate 'clunk' once every revolution, sounds loud and metallic Sounds like it's fitted with a paulcatchpole-stylee "large clearance" big-end. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSer Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Sounds like it's fitted with a paulcatchpole-stylee "large clearance" big-end. MP. From the way the crankshaft waves about you can also add a knackered main bearing at least to the doom and gloom list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonL Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I love these engine posts that tell a story, the investigation and the solution ( hopefully), so much better than batteries and bogs ! Please keep us posted - thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proper Job Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 I love these engine posts that tell a story, the investigation and the solution ( hopefully), so much better than batteries and bogs ! Please keep us posted - thank you They're a lot more gory if we could have photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSer Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Lister expert has paid a visit and had little good news to say on the engine, it's in need of either a replacement or a total rebiuld So has anybody got a twin cylinder 'HB' Lister in need of a good home? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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