Back Boiler Stove, without the Back Boiler?

[Beeno]

Hello All,

 

I've got around to fitting the stove on my boat, and then I saw the price of a new Squirrel!

 

Since then I've been looking at restored art-deco stoves, that look amazing, and are also relativly cheap. I seem to have found one that fits the bill, right size, right colour, multi-fuel, front loading with a top exiting flue. Only problem is that it has a back-boiler, and although I could connect it up to my heating circuit, I'd rather not, as a) I'd have to buy a seperate pump, I don't really need it and c) I can't be arsed taking the floor up (again).

 

What I'd like to know is, does anybody know if I could just not connect up the boiler, would the stove still be efficient? Would it still work properly?

 

I can't ask the manufacturer, as they went under 50 years ago, and the seller doesn't have a clue. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Beeno

[alan_fincher]

Hello All,

 

I've got around to fitting the stove on my boat, and then I saw the price of a new Squirrel!

 

Since then I've been looking at restored art-deco stoves, that look amazing, and are also relativly cheap. I seem to have found one that fits the bill, right size, right colour, multi-fuel, front loading with a top exiting flue. Only problem is that it has a back-boiler, and although I could connect it up to my heating circuit, I'd rather not, as a) I'd have to buy a seperate pump, I don't really need it and c) I can't be arsed taking the floor up (again).

 

What I'd like to know is, does anybody know if I could just not connect up the boiler, would the stove still be efficient? Would it still work properly?

 

I can't ask the manufacturer, as they went under 50 years ago, and the seller doesn't have a clue. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Beeno

Our boat has a Villager Heron stove on, which although it has a back boiler inside, it is not connected. (There's nothing on the baot that it could run).

 

Some people on the forum suggested running in this manner would be bad news, but as that's clearly how the last owner used it, we have done the same.

 

It seems to work fine, but obviously I don't know if we were to ever try and use the back boiler as such, whether it would be serviceable.

[John Orentas]

A bit of a dodgy one this, if it was a modern stove I think they are ok to run without water in the boiler but I would not be so sure about a very old one, some household back boilers were made from copper, those certainly could not be run empty. Of course any boiler inner surface will run very hot without water to take away, the empty tank will form an insulating layer.

 

I think you need to have a close look at it, see what it's made of and how thick it is.

[nigel carton]

Can you remove the back boiler, find a fire brick and blank inlet and outlet off? Alternativly, you could fill the back boiler with sand. Can you post some pictures? so we can have a look.

[alan_fincher]

John & Nigel,

 

Thanks....

 

You have me slightly worried now.

 

In my stove I assume it's steel. The Heron stove was the old equivalent of the current Puffin, which says it has the option of either ordinary steel, or stainless steel. (Mine certainly isn't stainless).

 

Is the (empty) boiler really likely to suffer worse than the cast iron top of the stove, which I think takes the direct heat, with no firebricks there.

 

Obviously the back boiler will get very hot, (after all that's what it's designed to do), but I can't see steel actually melting, surely ?

 

What's the worst that could happen, please ?

[John Orentas]

John & Nigel,

 

Thanks....

 

You have me slightly worried now.

 

 

 

Alan.

 

It is not going to melt but as there will be very little cooling effect owing to the double skin effect it will get very, very hot, possibly 'Red' at times so it's life will be limited.

 

No factual info, just seat of pants logic !

[Guest]

John & Nigel,

 

Thanks....

 

You have me slightly worried now.

 

In my stove I assume it's steel. The Heron stove was the old equivalent of the current Puffin, which says it has the option of either ordinary steel, or stainless steel. (Mine certainly isn't stainless).

 

Is the (empty) boiler really likely to suffer worse than the cast iron top of the stove, which I think takes the direct heat, with no firebricks there.

 

Obviously the back boiler will get very hot, (after all that's what it's designed to do), but I can't see steel actually melting, surely ?

 

What's the worst that could happen, please ?

Ours is a puffin stove without back boiler. If I remember correctly, the installation instructions claim that you should'nt run with tank either frozen or empty. Dont remember if it said why you shouldnt run it dry though. The idea of sand would work I think? Puffin stove has a website-I will find it.

 

http://www.villager.co.uk/multi.htm

go to download bit for manuals

Edited December 3, 2005 by Guest

[Beeno]

Thanks for the advice, the sand idea sounds like a good one!

 

The stove isn't as old as I first thought, It's made by l.lange & co. Another Danish manufacturer, the only trace of them I can find on the web is a museum in Denmark. The stove is for sale on ebay, so I hope this doesn't start a bidding frenzy!

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Red-Enamel-Quality-w...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I've asked the seller some more questions, but I'm not confident of a sensible reply.

 

I'm a bit concerned about the idea of my stove glowing red! Red Stove + Lots of wood = Disaster, surely!

[alan_fincher]

I'm a bit concerned about the idea of my stove glowing red! Red Stove + Lots of wood = Disaster, surely!

Well there are 3 layers of steel and/or iron at this point between fire and whatever is behind the boiler, (both sides of the tank, plus the cast iron back of the stove). I see no evidence that the back of my stove is any hotter than the sides where the fire bricks are, (but haven't put a thermometer on either, I'll admit).

 

Anyway there's tiling behind the stove.

 

I'm more concerned that my tiling doesn't go far enough up, and the top of the stove, coupled with the single flued chimney makes some of the woodwork fairly hot.

 

I intend to replace the tiling, to extend further, and make sure there's an insulating layer behind it, (I think the current tiles are probably straight onto the wood linings).

 

But I still fully accept that running the boiler empty will certainly not have extended it's life. My guess is that it's been there 10 years already, so if it is going to leak, it probably already would, (if I were to ever try and put water in).

 

.... Oh, and the spiders seem to come out through the tappings in great haste when we do light the fire of course....

[Beeno]

Well there are 3 layers of steel and/or iron at this point between fire and whatever is behind the boiler, (both sides of the tank, plus the cast iron back of the stove). I see no evidence that the back of my stove is any hotter than the sides where the fire bricks are, (but haven't put a thermometer on either, I'll admit).

 

Anyway there's tiling behind the stove.

 

I'm more concerned that my tiling doesn't go far enough up, and the top of the stove, coupled with the single flued chimney makes some of the woodwork fairly hot.

 

I intend to replace the tiling, to extend further, and make sure there's an insulating layer behind it, (I think the current tiles are probably straight onto the wood linings).

 

But I still fully accept that running the boiler empty will certainly not have extended it's life. My guess is that it's been there 10 years already, so if it is going to leak, it probably already would, (if I were to ever try and put water in).

 

.... Oh, and the spiders seem to come out through the tappings in great haste when we do light the fire of course....

 

Ok, cheers, I'm going to put asbestolux behing my tiles anyway, means you can leave a smaller gap between the lining and the stove (3 inchs, instead of 6.)

 

poor spiders - no love lost there.

[ChrisPy]

Ok, cheers, I'm going to put asbestolux behing my tiles anyway

asbestolux??

 

what products do people actually use in these asbestos-free times? a trade name or a source please. B&Q could only offer Aquapanel which looks like it might do the job but I have no data. it is intended for mounting wall tiles in a shower.

[Guest]

asbestolux??

 

what products do people actually use in these asbestos-free times? a trade name or a source please. B&Q could only offer Aquapanel which looks like it might do the job but I have no data. it is intended for mounting wall tiles in a shower.

There appear to be a few trade names, but I asked for "luxboard" at a wood suppliers and they seemes to associate with that name as though it was a generic term. I believe "Supalux" is a trade name.

 

http://www.promat.co.uk/fp-products-promatsupalux.htm

Edited December 3, 2005 by Guest

[Amicus]

Masterboard?

http://www.promat.co.uk/fp-products-masterboard.htm

masterboard is 60 minutes and supalux is 240

Edited December 3, 2005 by Amicus

[Beeno]

sorry, was porbably supalux, I get poor phone reception here and have many such misunderstanings with chandlers and boat builders!