lister starter motors

[jack2]

Hi,

I am helping out a friend who's Lister SR2 has not been started with the starter for 6 years! -She has been starting it by hand!

Anyway, I rewired the starter electrics but it only Clicked., took off the starter and found that the teeth were broken and jammed solid.

I have an spare SL3 starter, but the teeth seem to go he opposite way!

£250 seems a lot for her to spend, so what should I be looking for! There appears to be many many types! Left hand, right hand, long, short etc etc

I would have thought that all SR or SL engines would run the same way, and therefore the starters basically the same!

Or is that just plain silly?????

[denboy]

If your anywhere near nottingham i know a man who can fix it

[Timleech]

Hi,

I am helping out a friend who's Lister SR2 has not been started with the starter for 6 years! -She has been starting it by hand!

Anyway, I rewired the starter electrics but it only Clicked., took off the starter and found that the teeth were broken and jammed solid.

I have an spare SL3 starter, but the teeth seem to go he opposite way!

£250 seems a lot for her to spend, so what should I be looking for! There appears to be many many types! Left hand, right hand, long, short etc etc

I would have thought that all SR or SL engines would run the same way, and therefore the starters basically the same!

Or is that just plain silly?????

 

No, SR and many other Listers were produced in both rotations. The Marine rotation was opposite to the standard Industrial rotation. I honestly don't know about the SL, though I would expect it to be the same as the SR. Is your SL3 starter from an industrial engine?

There may be a few examples of marine SR engines with 'normal' rotation, but they're probably marinised industrial engines.

 

Tim

[jack2]

No, SR and many other Listers were produced in both rotations. The Marine rotation was opposite to the standard Industrial rotation. I honestly don't know about the SL, though I would expect it to be the same as the SR. Is your SL3 starter from an industrial engine?

There may be a few examples of marine SR engines with 'normal' rotation, but they're probably marinised industrial engines.

 

Tim

They are both marine engines and turn clockwise with left handed props. The one out of the SR may well be the wrong one!

How about 9 teeth and 10 teeth?

[casper ghost]

The SL usually swings a left hand prop, the SR a right hand prop.

I would look into getting the starter fixed. A good place here in shropshire.

[Timleech]

The SL usually swings a left hand prop, the SR a right hand prop.

 

I'm not convinced of that, 99.5% sure it's usually LH for the SR

(assuming a reduction box is present).

 

Tim

[jack2]

I'm not convinced of that, 99.5% sure it's usually LH for the SR

(assuming a reduction box is present).

 

Tim

 

I think I agree with Tim, Both types of engines are LH

Let's assume that for the moment. If I try the starter out the the engine, it should turn anticlockwise, and the chamfer at the end of the pinion should slope from the left to the right end to engage the gears?

[Timleech]

I think I agree with Tim, Both types of engines are LH

Let's assume that for the moment. If I try the starter out the the engine, it should turn anticlockwise, and the chamfer at the end of the pinion should slope from the left to the right end to engage the gears?

 

Anticlock from which end?

look for an arrow stamped into the casing, usually about halfway along. (quite a long arrow).

It should point anticlockwise looking from the pinion end.

 

Tim

[Arnot]

I think I agree with Tim, Both types of engines are LH

Let's assume that for the moment. If I try the starter out the the engine, it should turn anticlockwise, and the chamfer at the end of the pinion should slope from the left to the right end to engage the gears?

If you look on the main casing of the starter motor there should be a five digit number (such as 59600) which identifies it. Also there may be an number (usually eight digit) on the outside of the drive pinion clutch casing (just behind the pinion). These numbers should enable identification of the starter and also what if any current models or alternatives will fit.

 

There is always a possibility that the starter you took off the engine never worked with it in the first place of course... This happened to me once on a long term non-runner, it seems that it had been cannibalised and then built up of whatever looked right to flog it on.

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[casper ghost]

My Dad's SL has a left hand prop, my friends SR has a right hand prop and the SR I once looked a buying also came with a right hand prop.

The starter should have a serial number on it. You can contact AT Wilde & Son who are near Shrewsbury, they are agents for Lister and located the starter for our HR2 for 200 pound brand new.

[Timleech]

My Dad's SL has a left hand prop, my friends SR has a right hand prop and the SR I once looked a buying also came with a right hand prop.

 

Do/did they have reduction gearing?

The LH150 hydraulic box was designed for operation in one direction only, which IIRC drove a LH prop with reduction gearing. They did list a reverse-rotation oil pump for the box but even 30 years ago you would have been lucky to find one. I did once, at least 25 years ago, modify a standard LH150 pump so that the box would run on an industrial SR, I know that boat and engine are still 'out there' and there are probably one or two others but they will be rare.

 

Tim

[casper ghost]

Do/did they have reduction gearing?

The LH150 hydraulic box was designed for operation in one direction only, which IIRC drove a LH prop with reduction gearing. They did list a reverse-rotation oil pump for the box but even 30 years ago you would have been lucky to find one. I did once, at least 25 years ago, modify a standard LH150 pump so that the box would run on an industrial SR, I know that boat and engine are still 'out there' and there are probably one or two others but they will be rare.

 

Tim

 

Both engines had a mechanical reduction gearbox, not a hydraulic one.

[PhilR]

Both engines had a mechanical reduction gearbox, not a hydraulic one.

 

The SR engines had either a manual reverse gear OR the LH150 hydraulic gearbox. The LH150 box was more common in canal boats.

Both usually had separate reduction boxes on the back.

 

I assume that most (if not all) SR's WITHOUT the raised hand starting option, would have left hand props. I hope the following makes sense:

 

Standing at the front of the engine and looking towards the stern, the starting handle fits on the front of the camshaft which rotates clockwise.

 

The camshaft is gear driven from the crankshaft, so the crankshaft turns anti-clockwise.

 

The reduction gearbox is basically just 2 gears, so the rotation is changed to clockwise (again viewed from the front).

 

HTH, I have just had a nightcap so the brain cells might be greyer than usual.

 

Phil

[Iain_S]

The SR engines had either a manual reverse gear OR the LH150 hydraulic gearbox. The LH150 box was more common in canal boats.

Both usually had separate reduction boxes on the back.

 

I assume that most (if not all) SR's WITHOUT the raised hand starting option, would have left hand props. I hope the following makes sense:

 

Standing at the front of the engine and looking towards the stern, the starting handle fits on the front of the camshaft which rotates clockwise.

 

The camshaft is gear driven from the crankshaft, so the crankshaft turns anti-clockwise.

 

The reduction gearbox is basically just 2 gears, so the rotation is changed to clockwise (again viewed from the front).

 

HTH, I have just had a nightcap so the brain cells might be greyer than usual.

 

Phil

 

I agree with tor reasoning, BUT: Our canal society runs a trip boat with SR2. LH150, and reduction gearbox. The prop is right hand. The camshaft rotates anti-clockwise when vewed from the front of the engine. We do not have a hand start. However, the parts book lists a hand start mechanism, which consists of a chain drive from the camshaft to a shaft fitted over the top of the engine. to a handle at the BACK of the engine. This would turn clockwise when viewed from the back of the engine (the business end )

 

 

Iain

[PhilR]

I agree with tor reasoning, BUT: Our canal society runs a trip boat with SR2. LH150, and reduction gearbox. The prop is right hand. The camshaft rotates anti-clockwise when vewed from the front of the engine. We do not have a hand start. However, the parts book lists a hand start mechanism, which consists of a chain drive from the camshaft to a shaft fitted over the top of the engine. to a handle at the BACK of the engine. This would turn clockwise when viewed from the back of the engine (the business end )

 

 

Iain

 

Hi Iain

 

That makes perfect sense, although it wouldn't be so easy to have your left hand (operating the decompressors) crossed over the top of your cranking hand :-)

 

I once borrowed a friends boat with a Saab twin. The starting handle turned anti - clockwise but was well positioned for the left hand. Starting an engine anti-clockwise with your right hand is asking for a broken wrist if it kicks back, which might explain why LH propped engines had front handles and RH propped engines had raised hand starting.......... just guessing!

 

The SR's were fitted to loads of hire boats in the 60/70's and I assume they canibalised bits from spare engines to keep them running. I read somewhere that the QE2 had SR2's in all the lifeboats until shortly before it was taken out of service (ISTR that they fitted Alphas for the last few years).

 

Cheers

 

(and best wishes to Ann)

 

Phil

[Iain_S]

Hi Iain

 

That makes perfect sense, although it wouldn't be so easy to have your left hand (operating the decompressors) crossed over the top of your cranking hand :-)

 

I once borrowed a friends boat with a Saab twin. The starting handle turned anti - clockwise but was well positioned for the left hand. Starting an engine anti-clockwise with your right hand is asking for a broken wrist if it kicks back, which might explain why LH propped engines had front handles and RH propped engines had raised hand starting.......... just guessing!

 

I've not hand started a marine Lister (apart from an industrial (I think ) one in a weedcutter), but I think it woud be easy enough to stand to the left of the engine and wind with the right hand while working the compressors with the left.

 

Cheers

 

(and best wishes to Ann)

 

Phil

 

I'll pass them on later this morning

 

Cheers,

Iain

[Timleech]

Hi Iain

 

That makes perfect sense, although it wouldn't be so easy to have your left hand (operating the decompressors) crossed over the top of your cranking hand :-)

 

I once borrowed a friends boat with a Saab twin. The starting handle turned anti - clockwise but was well positioned for the left hand. Starting an engine anti-clockwise with your right hand is asking for a broken wrist if it kicks back, which might explain why LH propped engines had front handles and RH propped engines had raised hand starting.......... just guessing!

 

The SR's were fitted to loads of hire boats in the 60/70's and I assume they canibalised bits from spare engines to keep them running. I read somewhere that the QE2 had SR2's in all the lifeboats until shortly before it was taken out of service (ISTR that they fitted Alphas for the last few years).

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

If you're unsure of the rotation of an aircooled engine, look at the fan shroud. On the Listers, they come up in a fairly graceful curve on one side and then drop down vertically. If, for instance, the shroud comes up from the left, looking from behind, then the engine will be clockwise rotation (again looking from behind, I'm not sure what Listers convention is), and if that same engine carries a reduction gear the prop will be Left-handed.

 

Tim

[jack2]

If you're unsure of the rotation of an aircooled engine, look at the fan shroud. On the Listers, they come up in a fairly graceful curve on one side and then drop down vertically. If, for instance, the shroud comes up from the left, looking from behind, then the engine will be clockwise rotation (again looking from behind, I'm not sure what Listers convention is), and if that same engine carries a reduction gear the prop will be Left-handed.

 

Tim

Hi again,

ARGHHHHHH! Life could be so simple with Listers!

 

I have looked again at the starter, and it has an arrow going anti clockwise looking from the pinion. That at least confirms the direction of the starter. Looking at the pinion teeth, should the 45 degree edge slope from the left to the top edge of the pinion teeth, or from the right up to the top edge of the teeth?