help please cat c rec craft directory

[stuart h]

I found the limits for inland water ways UK, Very clear for waters a b c d

but for ce cert cat c, I need to know the min wl to weather deck height(freeboard) that does not mean wl to downflooding(lowest opening) wl length is 13.4 m

any help would be appreciated Nearly ready to start the first, see my gallery for latest pic

happy NY all

[ChrisPy]

I found the limits for inland water ways UK, Very clear for waters a b c d

but for ce cert cat c, I need to know the min wl to weather deck height(freeboard) that does not mean wl to downflooding(lowest opening) wl length is 13.4 m

any help would be appreciated Nearly ready to start the first, see my gallery for latest pic

happy NY all

ISO standard 12217 requires complex calculations inlcuding wind and wave resistance. I do not believe there is a minimum for 'freeboard amidships Fm' in the calculations.

If you don't have 12217 then you cannot apply any of the stability requirements, and you cannot design to Category C.

[stuart h]

ISO standard 12217 requires complex calculations inlcuding wind and wave resistance. I do not believe there is a minimum for 'freeboard amidships Fm' in the calculations.

If you don't have 12217 then you cannot apply any of the stability requirements, and you cannot design to Category C.

 

 

actually not the rule is simple 1/17 of wl to downflood, but its the wl to weather deck im interested in, but thanks, the rule for uk waterts not sea, is simple too

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/final_brochure-2.pdf

[NB Willawaw]

That MCA code applies to commercial vessels as opposed to private boats ? are you building a commercial boat?

[ChrisPy]

actually not the rule is simple 1/17 of wl to downflood, but its the wl to weather deck im interested in, but thanks, the rule for uk waterts not sea, is simple too

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/final_brochure-2.pdf

I have never seen that document before. It is not the prescribed document for RCD compliance, but it seems a commonsense document and is certainly more easy to apply.

 

ISO 12217 is the prescribed document for the RCD, and you need to apply it in your technical manual to support the RCD certification requirements. 12217 requires you to calculate the angle of heel, the wave height, etc. to establish the height of downflooding openings. The calculations are probably not dis-similar to those in the MCGA document. But of course if you do not intend to sell your boat you don't need to apply RCD requirements.

[stuart h]

I have never seen that document before. It is not the prescribed document for RCD compliance, but it seems a commonsense document and is certainly more easy to apply.

 

ISO 12217 is the prescribed document for the RCD, and you need to apply it in your technical manual to support the RCD certification requirements. 12217 requires you to calculate the angle of heel, the wave height, etc. to establish the height of downflooding openings. The calculations are probably not dis-similar to those in the MCGA document. But of course if you do not intend to sell your boat you don't need to apply RCD requirements.

thanlks, yes the boat is a line I want to build and market, i have been a pro builder all my life, in alloy sailing yachts

I can to those calcs in hydromax, maxsurf, but , times are tuff, I dont want to keep spending on each set standards

 

This is a private site, so I wont plug my design in here, but will be happy share building knowl;edge and anything else. the boat is really for the rivers of Eu, tankage for 8,000km at4.5 knots, with a strong JD engine for the fast rivers like the rhine , danube rhone

 

preciate your help

stu

[ChrisPy]

thanlks, yes the boat is a line I want to build and market, i have been a pro builder all my life, in alloy sailing yachts

I can to those calcs in hydromax, maxsurf, but , times are tuff, I dont want to keep spending on each set standards

 

This is a private site, so I wont plug my design in here, but will be happy share building knowl;edge and anything else. the boat is really for the rivers of Eu, tankage for 8,000km at4.5 knots, with a strong JD engine for the fast rivers like the rhine , danube rhone

 

preciate your help

stu

if you register as a business user at the local library you can see all the standards that you must have in order to comply with RCD. (and .... dare I say it ... allow you to download some of the content onto a memory stick ).

 

As a commercial builder you have no choice but to have and to apply all the standards. There is no short cut. But if you're looking at Cat C then I believe that you will need an independent inspection/certification agency as well.

 

RYA or BMF can sell you a CD with all the standards.

[stuart h]

if you register as a business user at the local library you can see all the standards that you must have in order to comply with RCD. (and .... dare I say it ... allow you to download some of the content onto a memory stick ).

 

As a commercial builder you have no choice but to have and to apply all the standards. There is no short cut. But if you're looking at Cat C then I believe that you will need an independent inspection/certification agency as well.

 

RYA or BMF can sell you a CD with all the standards.

yes Chris know most of that , but I,m at mo in Australia, i think I will just have to shell out for

 

this came from my mate in Spain, he is a pro ship arctitect, mind you if I buy YOU a real pint of, say JW scotch, maybe you can swipe a copy:))

It's the downflooding height.

If you have a quick draining cockpit you can consider it as the distance from the WL to the gunwhale.

The cockpit sole height over WL has to be determined in accordance with definition of quick draining cockpit as per ISO 11812

The downflooding height can be reduced by using the Annex A of ISO 12217-1

Related with stability, freeboard, buoyancy and watertightness requirements, I recommend you to buy and study at least both mentioned ISO norms, as well as ISO 12216, ISO 9093 (1 & 2) and ISO 15083, as you need to know them in deep.

Edited January 12, 2009 by stuart h

[Rob@BSSOffice]

actually not the rule is simple 1/17 of wl to downflood, but its the wl to weather deck im interested in, but thanks, the rule for uk waterts not sea, is simple too

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/final_brochure-2.pdf

 

I'm not certain from your posts and I stand to be corrected, but you may well be barking up the wrong tree. This link is to the MCA water categorisation for their codes for non vessels of various uses.

 

For the Recreational Craft Directive categories, which are very different, you should visit the EU website or get export advice from the Australian boating industry trade body (if you are a Australian enterprise).

 

Some recreational craft built to category C can be self-declared, the others will need a notified body to review as to compliance. If your Spanish naval architect cannot help, you may need to engage another marine surveyor or architect to help with specific area of advice.

 

If you are building a vessel intended for commercial purposes, then the RCD will not apply, but other rules may well do especially for the region that utilizes Rhine standards such as the western and central European areas. Again you may need local, more specialist advice.

 

Regards

Rob

[stuart h]

I'm not certain from your posts and I stand to be corrected, but you may well be barking up the wrong tree. This link is to the MCA water categorisation for their codes for non vessels of various uses.

 

For the Recreational Craft Directive categories, which are very different, you should visit the EU website or get export advice from the Australian boating industry trade body (if you are a Australian enterprise).

 

Some recreational craft built to category C can be self-declared, the others will need a notified body to review as to compliance. If your Spanish naval architect cannot help, you may need to engage another marine surveyor or architect to help with specific area of advice.

 

If you are building a vessel intended for commercial purposes, then the RCD will not apply, but other rules may well do especially for the region that utilizes Rhine standards such as the western and central European areas. Again you may need local, more specialist advice.

 

Regards

Rob

thanks R ob, I understand which body always have, just posted the link to the MCA case anyone wanted it. I have been pointed to the correct standards, will build IN the Eu, not sure who will use as certifiers, probably the Dutch although one can BUY any certificate in Turkey, , joking aside, thats a fact

[carlt]

although one can BUY any certificate in Turkey, , joking aside, thats a fact

Sorry, but do you actually want to deter people from considering your boats??

 

You seem to lack a basic understanding of the requirements for building and selling a boat, in the UK, then tell us that you can "buy the certificate" in Turkey.

[ChrisPy]

seems to me that advice was requested and now that some has been given it appears that he knows it all anyway.

 

of course if these boats are going to be built 'offshore', certified in Turkey and operated on the Rhine, what the hell do we care?

[Yoda]

Its cheaper to copy someone else's design.

[ChrisPy]

Its cheaper to copy someone else's design.

just make sure the design has a valid design manual and RCD, not a spoof one ....

[stuart h]

Sorry, but do you actually want to deter people from considering your boats??

 

You seem to lack a basic understanding of the requirements for building and selling a boat, in the UK, then tell us that you can "buy the certificate" in Turkey.

listen pal, I would never buy a cert,

and the rules are very complex, I want to get it RIGHT !! RIGHT Having built many class A yachts is very different, because they had no lower decks, and had quick drain cockpits

so grow up, or assist if can

or take a look my gallery, do you see anything like a poor job?

peopel like you need go get a life

Edited January 13, 2009 by stuart h

[carlt]

listen pal, I would never buy a cert,

and the rules are very complex, I want to get it RIGHT !! RIGHT Having built many class A yachts is very different, because they had no lower decks, and had quick drain cockpits

so grow up, or assist if can

No, I think I'll just ignore.

 

You pop up here, every now and then, touting your wares and nothing really comes of it.

 

One of the trusted authorities on the RCD, and building boats suitable for the EU, on this forum, is notable by his absence, from your threads (and I know why) so I think I'll follow his example.

[stuart h]

No, I think I'll just ignore.

 

You pop up here, every now and then, touting your wares and nothing really comes of it.

 

One of the trusted authorities on the RCD, and building boats suitable for the EU, on this forum, is notable by his absence, from your threads (and I know why) so I think I'll follow his example.

good excellent

and I am not touting my wares, but then I see such puerile people here, , still one does live in hope

what have you EVER done or built? zilch I suppose

Edited January 13, 2009 by stuart h